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Their whole "this guy should get too many years because the last guy got too many years" crap needs to end too. Giving crappy coaches more time just sets the program further back.

Well, a couple of years ago it meant getting a million dollar raise, so we don’t exactly have any reasons to be confident in the powers that be.

I hear you but IU in my opinion is at a point of no return regardless of how the season ends. I think Dolson gets to do his job afterwards and gets to hire someone that will be his guy. Just making the tourney isn’t going to save him this year. He will have to make a Final 4 type run to even be considered being brought back. This is gone past just wins and losses. Its a train wreck all around the program and if we can see it and have been seeing it for a while now in my opinion Dolson has got to see it and understand that pretty much no matter what IU has to make a change. And if we are all wrong then they can just go ahead and shut it all down until he is gone because as bad as people think it is now if Woodson is back next year double the optics of people not caring and cut the attendance of home games in half.

Being out of Espns bracketology is probably a good thing. Lunardi doesn’t have his fast ball anymore and there are a bunch of better options to follow that would be more accurate. I want him gone as bad as anybody however going 11-9 in the B1G would more than likely have them on the right side of the bubble. B1G is by far the second best league this year and their success against every other conference besides the SEC will get more B1G teams in. Iu has 18 B1G games left. 13 Q1, 3 Q2, and 2 Q3 games out of those 18. If they win the 2 Q3 games then in the example of going 11-9 would mean 8 other B1G wins to get to 11 wins would be Mostly Q1 wins. Again Woodson needs to go but the math will works itself out and if IU goes 11-9 in conference some of you would need to prepare for them being on the right side of the bubble. Their SOS will only go up from here on out (108 overall now) and there non con sos will be in the mid 100s which would be fine for a bubble team or a lower seeded team. Again not saying that’s what I want or agree with just giving you the view from a bracketologist point of view instead of a fan

IU gave Mike Woodson 4 more years than any serious school would ever even think of giving him.

He didn't even deserve an interview.

He didn't even deserve 4 years. Should've been gone last season.

Answering my own question - I doubt it. There's a universe where Woodson could have retired quickly after the BTT and truthfully say: Indiana hadn't made the tournament in years. I came back and we made it 2/3 years. I put kids in the NBA. I proved 5 star talent from all over would come here. I helped build a foundational aspect of our program in NIL (if his connection to Simons/Cooks are as important as people speculate, this is 100% true regardless of his on court results even after he leaves - as long as the investment continues once he is gone. I think it will). That would be something he could feel legitimately proud about. And in a different environment, the AD probably is able to hold his hand through it so he can feel good and continue being a beloved figure in the university community. You may say he wanted another shot after missing the tournament because he's a competitor. I'd say that's baloney. He should have quit while he was ahead.

Because well-run organizations in different industries have very different norms. This is an organization in an industry that, absent extreme misconduct or extraordinary operational failure (i.e. Kenny Payne), the position routinely gets at least four years. And in this industry, giving less than the minimum norm will greatly discourage future qualified candidates. Moreover, a large buyout accompanies the early years of the deal. Therefore, it is of paramount importance to carefully vet and only hire an excellent choice for this high-profile head coaching job, because absent a national headline, he is going to be the coach for at least four years. It appears to me that selecting Woody was the bad choice, but giving him a fourth year was a given.

Everyone can see Woodson’s likely gone next season. Probably won’t see any recruiting developments until the coach search gets underway….

Jim Larranaga retiring according to the College basketball media. Intern coach taking over for rest of the year

I’m not sure it discourages future candidates. Any incoming coach would see Woody’s three year track record and think wow that’s not great I’ll do much better than that with top-5 NIL and have a long stint at IU. Coaches are a confident bunch. UK got rid of Billy Clyde after two years and UNC fired Doherty after three. Those are programs behaving in a serious manner. Of course you could point to differences in those situations, but Woody’s year three was so bad on the court and recruiting, plus with knowledge of how he operates, there was a solid case to move on after three years. The buyout would be $4M more back then, but there are downsides to keep him around such as declining revenue/donations and wasted NIL. I agree getting the hire right is key and schools will try to give coaches time, and I think they should try to give coaches time, but it was pretty clear last year there were serious issues that justified moving on. But, we didn’t. We’ll see what happens this over the next three months.

Definitely not. They were stupid enough to hire him though, they could've corrected their mistake at the right time and we wouldn't be here; instead they found out the hard way there is no roster Woodson can't underachieve with.

Scary but true.

The only thing we still have that’s been the same quality for literally as long as I can remember is the Around the Horn and PTI block. The PTI guys used to be considered the hot take artists. They haven’t changed a bit and are now the most sane people on the entire network.

We were #15 preseason. That would usually mean an expectation of Sweet 16 or better. Something tells me the donors didn't give Woodson all that money just to go 11-9 and sneak in.

Really sad to see something I cared about so much to be destroyed! Everyone in a place of power overseeing basketball should fire themselves along with the king! I hate this so much! Sick of everyone I know asking why we suck and laughing at us! We suck because we have a lazy dumbass 4 a coach! Sent from my SM-S926U using Tapatalk

Nobody wants to be the guy that follows the legend… but that hasn’t been an issue here for 25 years.

He’s a big man. Maybe?

Guys, @Stuhoo is right, objectively. Most programs including the bluebloods give coaches 4 years to develop their roster, recruiting, system and track record before throwing in the towel and forking over the large buyouts that come with breaking the contract— which amounts are higher in the earlier years. Woodson went 21-14 and 23-12 his first 2 years and made the tourney. Some of us, me for sure, couldn’t stand his 2-big “system” that completely ignored the perimeter game, but it wasn’t clear after 2 years that he would fail or not develop better teams at IU. It’s clear now TJD carried him, but it wasn’t then. Year 3 put his failures on full display imo, and I was one who wanted him gone then, but there’s NIL now and the ability to quickly reload, so more reason to give a HC a 4th year to show what he can do — and Woodson then did very well in the portal. A good (even decent) coach would be winning with this roster — the roster is not flawed, that Woodson is just a bad, outdated system-running, inflexible, flawed coach is now fully clear. He’ll be gone after this season. That was the realistic likelihood after year 3. Btw, Archie Miller is now 11-1 at Rhode I. Lol

I've seen plenty of articles which have turned against ESPN, Herbstreit, Finebaum, Kiffin, and the other SEC shills for their hypocrisy.

The thing is I'm not sure Finebaum even believes what he says. He may have at some point, but now he takes advantage of a low IQ but passionate fanbase that will parrot whatever he says. To be honest, it's probably a good business model for him, but it is just rage bait for the opposition and he gets clicks from it.

Yeah maybe ten years ago my ND hate would have wanted them to lose. But my SEC hate has surpassed it. I hope Notre Dame wins 35 - 10.

I can't stand ND but I hope they destroy Georgia. It'd be great if ASU beats Texas as well to knock the SEC out of the playoffs.

Dude can pathetically shill and debase himself all he wants. An 11-1 B1G team got in. Hate to break it to him and Herbstreit , but if they’re11-1 next year they’ll get in again.

Kamara is coming back - BOOM

Would seem a little strange to me if he were to go into the portal and transfer from Illinois to Indiana. I would assume he is going to be starting again next year for the Illini if he comes back. Illinois had a pretty good team last year and I would think that the NIL was okay there. He is from Mississippi so it wouldn't surprise me to see him go back down south. That said, would love to have him.

If our program were run by adults we’d have a headline about Woodson like this: https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/43168609/sources-jim-larranaga-talks-miami-stepping-down

Not unlike Woodson's wins this year: SIU-Edwardsville, Eastern Illinois, South Carolina, UNC Greensboro, Providence, Sam Houston St, Miami-Ohio, Minnesota, Chattanooga (and probably) Winthrop... real resume building wins there. And he's lost to every team with a pulse.

Well, Doherty had an ACC title and AP Coach of the Year to earn him more time and he wasn't fired for cause. Billy Clyde I believe was, he is likely a good serious misconduct example. As a side note it's kinda funny TT hired him... right on brand for them. Another way to put it: would UK, UNC, or KU give Woody a 4th year? We'll never know, but I doubt it. And the point remains coaches aren't scared off when they see a poor coach like Woodson fired, and there are costs to keep coaches like Woody around. A good organization moves quickly on replacing bad leaders regardless of perceived industry norms, it's always better to bite the bullet and move on, it only gets worse/harder as more time passes.

Would future potential coaches have been turned off if Woodson retired after last year?

Light the beacons and order the beer, we’re a basketball school again.

Well in this instance he’s being retired. Sounds like this was NOT his idea. But understandable from Miami’s perspective.

The fact no one else wanted him to be HC should've told them do not pass go, that's a giant red flag. Either the only thing that mattered was him playing here 40 years ago, or their vetting was laughably abysmal.

About time he retired.

If it does, then you're targeting the wrong coaches.

I cited extreme misconduct or extraordinary operational failure as the exceptions: Gillespie was a raging drunk that mistreated players ... and underperformed on the court. He is the definition of an extreme misconduct exception. Doherty underperformed way beyond Woody (8-20 his second season), and had a full scale open team revolt on his hands after his third year. Incomparably worse than Woody; he was a misconduct/operational failure combo with extra cheese! And he still got three years.

The recruiting misses are tough. The “insiders” are saying the fans put too much pressure on the team and the guys crumble under the immense pressure. I get that. I think it’s probably a real thing. But Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, and others have the same type of large, loud fanbases. They win (mostly). Maybe we get the wrong guys that don’t relish the big stage. I mean, also obviously the coach. Because a good product and Wins and our fanbase can be our biggest asset as well. I’m excited to see a different brand of basketball. I miss ball movement, player movement. It’s a shame because this roster had me excited again until I’ve seen the product 4-5 times and it looks the same as it always does. And the results are line with other Mediocre Mike seasons. Ugh………. Sent from my iPad using BtownBanners

Right just saying people should probably not expect another 11-1 season. Could be more like 8-4. Sent from my SM-A146U using Tapatalk

QB like MW is still living in the 70s because that’s the only time in their life they mattered

As the old OSU AD publicly joked one time something to the effect of “the HC reports to me, but I’m subordinate to the HC.” That was when Meyer was there, I think. Any successful basketball or football coach will be so powerful that the org chart showing who they report to will be pro forma at best.

I respect your opinion. I hope you’re right. I’m also not arguing that Dolson or Whitten aren’t capable of making a good hire. Just stating that I don’t have faith in that happening….. This isn’t the first 2nd or 3rd rodeo I’ve gotten my hopes up for. This time around, I’m too apathetic to be moved by anything other than an hire that actually moves the needle.

I'm done with this conversation. I get it you like Woodson and I don't. I can call it what I want to call it and it's a grift at the very least. Bye. Have a great day Sent from my SM-A146U using Tapatalk

Not portal, but Jacob Bell officially committed.

@Napleshoosier I can see from the emoji there’s some confusion. Literally. I’ll be more hypothetically clear - say you went to IU and were a student athlete alongside one of the greatest collegiate coaches of all time in his sport. Say you were best friends with his son, who also played for the team, and spent most holidays with their family because you didn’t have a father figure. Say, dog nabbit, if you wouldn’t know it, that friend ended up taking over for his dad and leading the most successful athletic program at your Alma mater into their next generation. Maybe that friend has a front row seat at the table of the athletic department and his dad continues to have a say to future AD’s about how to build a championship program and the type of personality it takes at the helm. And maybeeeee that friend knows you’re a die hard IU sports fan in general and puts you in touch with a few people in high places so he can get you to stop annoying him and his dad for information whenever things are going on. Maybe, just maybeee, that person would have a conversation or two to wish someone, or multiple someone’s, a merry Christmas - that may or may not naturally lead into a conversation that gives this particular someone, some “inside” Information that he chooses to pass along to fans just like him, who he knows care as passionately about this school’s athletic programs. But maybe he thinks to himself, if I type exactly what I just heard on the phone, it’s gonna be pretty obvious to the person I just got off the phone with, that it’s me who is posting information on message boards. Maybe this guy decides to keep it simple but still pass on some interesting info for his online buddies - without risking a stern talking to from the people he considers family and/or a father. Hope this helps clarify. Happy holidays faceless names on a message board I consider friends!

This is his last season coaching IU.

100% Agree. There are few names who have been around for a bit in the TE, DL/DE, and LB rooms that didn't see much time on the field this fall that I'm surprised we haven't heard more from.

Didn’t know exactly where to put this, but this seems as appropriate a place as any. Feel free to insert your own details because saying anything more would make this a blatant conversation posted word for word and get me in trouble - but Bryson Tucker is effectively using the rest of the season as a showcase for an SEC team with NIL and a better coach who can get him ready for the league. He’s had it with this program and the staff. Sad, because promising five stars aren’t lining up to play for us at the moment to begin with. But fleeing after one year isn’t a good look.