Indiana vs Butler Game Thread 12/15

[JSHoosier]

That replay with Fisch's call shows that Langford slipped twice on the play.  Once coming off the curl, and again trying to cut back shortly before the pass to Phinisee.

[MikeRoberts]

Yeah, don’t love the DA thing but maybe it’s exaggerated, idk. I’m sure if he was winning in practice and hitting shots at the rate Archie wants he’d be getting PT.


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Damezi isn’t ready to play important minutes. He will be down the road but if he truly believes he should be right now he isn’t being honest with himself.


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[Old Friend]

17 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

Omg imagine the Purdue tears about losing Rob

You know, I have been thinking of this post for a while this morning.  Looking at Purdue's bench and players yesterday; they are a completely different program than Indiana.    They seem to want players with some chip on their shoulder for whatever reason.  Kids who have been downtrodden or missed or passed over.  "Scrappy" kids without elite ability but who "play hard."  That can work if you assimilate the right group of kids; but players like Phinisee?  Langford?  Hunter?  Davis?  Brooks?  Those kids will never go to Purdue.  Have they had a McD's  All American since Glen Robinson?  (Perhaps they have; but I don't remember)    From time to time, they'll get a group together that can compete and win in the Big Ten; but I just see them as a completely different animal than Indiana.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

You know, I have been thinking of this post for a while this morning.  Looking at Purdue's bench and players yesterday; they are a completely different program than Indiana.    They seem to want players with some chip on their shoulder for whatever reason.  Kids who have been downtrodden or missed or passed over.  "Scrappy" kids without elite ability but who "play hard."  That can work if you assimilate the right group of kids; but players like Phinisee?  Langford?  Hunter?  Davis?  Brooks?  Those kids will never go to Purdue.  Have they had a McD's  All American since Glen Robinson?  (Perhaps they have; but I don't remember)    From time to time, they'll get a group together that can compete and win in the Big Ten; but I just see them as a completely different animal than Indiana.

Agree 100%. I admire some of that scrappy, gritty, hustle play. Would like Indiana to be a mixture of elite talent and grittiness.

Seem like that is what Archie wants as well. This makes me happy.


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[Uspshoosier]

You know, I have been thinking of this post for a while this morning.  Looking at Purdue's bench and players yesterday; they are a completely different program than Indiana.    They seem to want players with some chip on their shoulder for whatever reason.  Kids who have been downtrodden or missed or passed over.  "Scrappy" kids without elite ability but who "play hard."  That can work if you assimilate the right group of kids; but players like Phinisee?  Langford?  Hunter?  Davis?  Brooks?  Those kids will never go to Purdue.  Have they had a McD's  All American since Glen Robinson?  (Perhaps they have; but I don't remember)    From time to time, they'll get a group together that can compete and win in the Big Ten; but I just see them as a completely different animal than Indiana.

Swanigan was probably their last McDonald’s all American


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[schoosier]

39 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

 

 

 

 

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The great memories come back for all of us too. For me to see Keith and Vic coming back home is truly a special game. How could any top prospect say no to this program? It continues to go up and up and I am enjoying watching Archie and team get us to the top.

 

edit. Is that Noah Vonleh far right?

[Stromboli]

What a game!  

 

Look.  We've b!+ched about the offense, slow starts, butter fingers and hands of stone, and the heart palpitations.  But honestly this season has been thrilling.  Game after game has just been a blast to watch.  These dudes keep fighting.  You rarely get to enjoy the honeymoon period with a new coach.  Enjoy it.  You rarely get to enjoy a talent like Romeo playing for Indiana.  Enjoy it.  You very rarely get a senior like Juwan Morgan.  Enjoy it.  And you almost never get to watch comeback after comeback--against good teams--actually work.  This is flat out fun.  

 

Juwan, man.  What a performance.  I hope he keeps it up so he can get some recognition at the end of the season.  All-whatever team stuff.  He was never supposed to be the star.  Or have an outside shot.  Or even play in a system that didn't recruit him.  But here he is putting out dominant performances.  My favorite play of the game of his happened with about 12 minutes left, after he had already established that he was having a career day.  Romeo was, frankly, having an awful day.  That string of miscommunications were likely attributable to Romeo (sorry, frosh, against Juwan you lose the benefit of the doubt).  Romeo was trying, but things just weren't happening for him, plays set for Romeo weren't working, our guards weren't really creating anything for him.  So Juwan gets a defensive rebound, and waves off the PG (I think Devonte) and Juwan takes the ball across the court himself.  Eyes the defense, drives right, hands to Romeo while screening/pulling defenders, creating a lane for Romeo do just slip straight in for an easy 2.  I swear, when Juwan got that rebound, his intention was to create a play for Romeo, quite obviously outside of our offense, since Archie always wants a PG taking the ball down.  To me, Juwan saw that Romeo was getting a little defeated, and made a winning play for him.  

 

 

 

As for Romeo, he had a bad game.  Lots of turnovers.  Poor outside shooting.  Just nothing seemed to be working.  He still affected the game in a positive way, kept his head in it, made some heady plays.  I thought in his post-game he seemed... petulant?  Pouting a little?  At first I wondered if he was jealous that Rob was getting all the attention.  I don't think that's it, though.  Not consistent with what we know of him.  I do think he was miffed that he had a bad game.  As an aside, I'm a little tired of IU fans that want to sound like the smartest person in the room with their Romeo hot takes.  "I think he needs one more year before he's ready..."  Oh get real.  The NBA wanted him last year.  They still want him this year.  The dude is awesome.  

 

Most of us assumed we'd be without De'Ron still, and that he wouldn't be contributing anyway.  I think it's fair to say we were wrong.  I'm pretty happy every time he's out there.  He's not perfect, but that's an unreasonable expectation.  He affects the game, affects the way the other team plays, offers new scoring options.  He plays big-boy basketball, if that makes sense.  No cutesy stuff.  His limited jumping/moving shouldn't be confused with lack of athleticism.  His timing/coordination/power is very good.  

 

Zach and Evan.  Hmm.  Erm.  Not bringing a lot.  Zach made a hustle play or two, and he's dependable, but he needs a little more confidence.  Evan might be a great basketball player, but his physical limitations are holding him back.  Slow reactions, ball goes through his hands, doesn't seem to enjoy blocking or sticking his hip on a guy to keep him in place or exploding off a screen for a catch-and-shoot.  It's not like me to make a generalization like this, but I think he's just not good enough.  I'd say that we should start getting him open for more shots, but I'm actually starting to enjoy this barrage on the rim.  It's so one dimensional but almost like watching a good running game in football.  Everyone knows it's a run off left guard, and yet the defense can't stop it, down after down after down.  Our offense is really the same, Juwan and Romeo and De'Ron and Justin going at the rim, barely pretending to be spreading the offense.  Yes, Juwan had four 3s today, looked like targets of opportunity to me.  

 

Speaking of our offense...  Only 10 free throw attempts.  Seven by Juwan, 3 by Romeo.  We have to get more guys on the line.  I'll agree, the refs had a say in that.  Some dubious charges called.  Against a team that short, we really should have had them on their heels with fouls a little more.  And if not fouls, just more good high percentage shots.  

 

Phinisee is our 3rd best player.  Having a stellar freshman season.  If we didn't have Rob this year, we'd likely have 2-3 more losses already.  That's pretty incredible.  And he's making his winning plays off script, but then in his interviews still repeats things like "we just need to do what Coach is telling us to win these games."  The play was set for Romeo, but Romeo slipped twice trying to get open, and his guy played him tight.

 

 

 

Also I agree with WayneFleek, Rob's defense on Baldwin was good, Baldwin just kept making plays.  

 

I'm really, really enjoying all of this.  We're doing the thing.  These wins will get us into the tournament.  I don't feel like we're world beaters, or even a top 20 team.  But we're fighting and winning and that's enough for now.  Hopefully in these next couple games we'll see some Jake, Clifton, and Damezi.  

[mdn82]

For sh*ts and giggles, I found a Butler message board. The arrogance is incredible. Can't believe they lost to IU, it hurts their chances of making the tournament, on and on.
 
You know how there are a couple ex-IU fans on GBI? Apparently Butler has them too:
The only "positive" I see is that the Butler program has risen (or should I say IU's has gone into free fall) to the point where as a Butler fan- you honestly think it is beneath Butler to ever lose to IU again. That's how I felt leaving BLF- how the FOCK does Butler ever come close to losing to IU their program is so much better than IU's it's not even close. This coming from an IU grad who made the switch 20+ years ago after seeing all of the nonsense that went on in Bloomington post Knight. It's almost got to the point where you genuinely are embarrassed when Butler loses to IU,
https://butlerhoops.com/forum/index.php?threads/butler-bulldogs-7-2-vs-indiana-hoosiers-8-2-12-15.2404/page-27

That in a nutshell is the type of fan you encounter during the Crossroads from Butler. They act like they have reinvented the game. They act like their two championship game run elevates them to Blueblood status. Then when PU, IU, and the 5 ND basketball fans don’t bow down to them like they are in the halls they turn into petulant children.


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[Whoozhers]

I’d much rather listen to Fisch on the radio. But, listening on the internet is almost a full minute behind the TV telecast. Bummer.

 

 

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[Hoosier Guy]

I never understood why IU fans rooted for Butler in the first place. Their fans think they’re the premier program. Um... no. IU will ALWAYS be the premier program

[Hovadipo]

26 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

That in a nutshell is the type of fan you encounter during the Crossroads from Butler. They act like they have reinvented the game. They act like their two championship game run elevates them to Blueblood status. Then when PU, IU, and the 5 ND basketball fans don’t bow down to them like they are in the halls they turn into petulant children.


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Buck Futler. 

[AKHoosier]

1 hour ago, TheWatShot said:

For sh*ts and giggles, I found a Butler message board. The arrogance is incredible. Can't believe they lost to IU, it hurts their chances of making the tournament, on and on.

 

You know how there are a couple ex-IU fans on GBI? Apparently Butler has them too:

The only "positive" I see is that the Butler program has risen (or should I say IU's has gone into free fall) to the point where as a Butler fan- you honestly think it is beneath Butler to ever lose to IU again. That's how I felt leaving BLF- how the FOCK does Butler ever come close to losing to IU their program is so much better than IU's it's not even close. This coming from an IU grad who made the switch 20+ years ago after seeing all of the nonsense that went on in Bloomington post Knight. It's almost got to the point where you genuinely are embarrassed when Butler loses to IU,

https://butlerhoops.com/forum/index.php?threads/butler-bulldogs-7-2-vs-indiana-hoosiers-8-2-12-15.2404/page-27

It's to the point where some of their fans honestly think they're Duke because they're a small, private school.

[AKHoosier]

I wouldn't worry about Damezi sitting down in the locker room in that celebration video.

You can clearly see him running onto the court with the rest of his teammates after Rob's shot went in, with a huge smile on his face joining in that celebration.

[HoosierAloha]

It’s crazy how different games are officiated. If that game were played in conference all bigs would have been in foul trouble for moving screens alone. Rob was competing on defense but he’s not strong enough, and there’s not many defenders who are, when Baldwin was using his off arm to maintain space. That’s another call that would have put Baldwin to the bench in conference play, unless his name was Tony Carr or Lamar Stevens.


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[Demo]

29 minutes ago, Hoosier Guy said:

I never understood why IU fans rooted for Butler in the first place. Their fans think they’re the premier program. Um... no. IU will ALWAYS be the premier program

When I lived in Indy I liked Butler because Hinkle is awesome, tickets were cheap and available, and the school’s terrific. They weren’t IU, of course, but they were a convenient secondary option when I needed a game fix. That all changed with the  whole “Butler Way” nonsense.  God, I hate that sort of myopia. The “Butler Way”? Stop it. It’s the, “Every Mid-Major in the Country Way.”  They did it better. Kudos. They do not a single unique thing. 

[TheWatShot]

Is there some reason people keep trying to nitpick the behavior of our players? Last week there was a pretty heated discussion on another board that Phinisee never passes the ball to Langford so there must be friction between them, early on it was Langford not showing emotion so he must not like it here, now Anderson apparently didn't celebrate enough after the win.

 

I'm not sure if some people are just infected with PTSD from the Crean years and are just frantically waiting for the other shoe to drop, but I just thought it was kind of strange.

[DChoosier]

30 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

It’s crazy how different games are officiated. If that game were played in conference all bigs would have been in foul trouble for moving screens alone. Rob was competing on defense but he’s not strong enough, and there’s not many defenders who are, when Baldwin was using his off arm to maintain space. That’s another call that would have put Baldwin to the bench in conference play, unless his name was Tony Carr or Lamar Stevens.


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Yep. With some crews Baldwin would have fouled out within 6 minutes. It was crazy how he was repeatedly allowed to aggressively create space with his off arm. 

[The Ola Depot]

It's the Butler Way. Set moving picks, push and shove, grab and hack every trip down the floor. Refs can't call them all, so might as well do it all the time.
 
They had some pretty sweet flops yesterday too. I can see some of them must have watched tapes of Matt Howard. That dude made a living out of drawing bogus charges by falling down clumsily for 4 years.

Oh, but they’re so gritty and tough when they do it.


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[The Ola Depot]

I agree with some posts saying that they hope this can kind of spark the team. I think the timing is perfect as well. Like after the Arkansas game, even though it wasn’t really a bad loss, just the way we lost really seemed to impact the team’s confidence shortly after that game. I’m hoping this will do the opposite and ignite the team by beating down some cupcakes and coming out firing on all cylinders for B1G play.


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[woodenshoemanHoosierfan]

Old Fart
Yes I’m kicking myself a little.  I had the pain of watching #1 Indiana drop that OT game to Butler.  That was a rough drive home.  I was 100% confident we would win that game.  This one would have been the opposite and even being as frugal as I am I would have been worth my money. Haha.
 
As for Rob being our final shot taker at halves and end of games.  I still think it is an interesting debate but Rob is earning that right every single game.  I just find it interesting that we have one of the best scoring prospects in the country and he hasn’t been the guy to take those shots in any game, either by choice or luck.  It’s remains an interesting thing to watch.  

That play yesterday was set up for Romeo. It became a broken play so Phinisee flashed to get open

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