They “Retired” Coach Woodson Thread

[Silat Player]

5 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

I mean what he is saying could work next year but it isn't a recipe for sustained success.  Woodson's strategy is to draw an inside straight every year apparently.  While that is technically possible and you could potentially win big if you do it, it is a completely bass ackwards way to build a program.

As I have seen people say, it doesn't have to be this hard at Indiana.  This is wasting money and resources for what is likely to be wildly inconsistent play from year to year.  It is stupid, which is why no one else that we currently aspire to be is doing it.

This is what has hurt teams who rely on top-ranked one and done players. Kentucky hasn't won a title since 2012 (I think). Duke won their last title in what...2015 maybe. They started getting unbelievable recruiting classes after that title and coach K never won another one. 

Trying to reload every year, instead of developing players, has not proven to be successful in the long run.

Edited March 9, 2024 by Silat Player

[OKHOOSIER]

34 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

Florida this year, Colorado State, Illinois (way more transfers than people realize),  KSU,  there are others and we can argue what level of success we are talking.

The big difference is if the extra money is being given as stated, nobody has ever had this kind of money to attack the portal. Nobody. Even the Kansas/Duke types have money tied up and  never free like this. 

Plenty can disagree or not like it but nobody knows if it will work.  There was a time when people thought certain offensive systems or Cal one and done approach etc was crazy too. Then it became the thing until the new thing. 

The bolded above is true. It is also not what you said in your original post. I went ahead and looked it up. Currently there are 5 teams that have been consistently ranked this season with 4 or more transfers. Illinois, Kansas, Alabama, South Carolina and UNC. Of those, only South Carolina (52) and UNC (32) were ranked outside the top-30 in high school recruits.  Florida is the only team with 6 who you could say have been a success, I will give you that. Ole Miss also falls into the decent with 6 category (we know who their coach is). Most have been awful, with some decent coaching jobs sprinkled in, but mostly awful. To take it a step further, there are exactly 2 teams that have been consistently ranked with 5 or more transfer: Kansas and UNC. That's the list. Those are the examples, and to use your words, we most certainly not Kansas or UNC.

Here is the important piece. All of the "mostly ranked" teams I mentioned above sans South Carolina (57th 3 recruits) have top-20 high school recruiting classes for 2024 with a minimum of 3 commitments. Alabama, UNC and Kansas are 6, 7, 8 respectively. This is where the argument breaks down. Exactly no one is depending on the portal exclusively. So unless IU is on the cutting edge of a brave new world (LOL), this is why people are skeptical, to put it lightly. 

 

[Silat Player]

Just now, JSHoosier said:

Personally I think it's great how he's so insistent on what he thinks Woodson will do, and completely ignores what Woodson has actually shown.

Of course, I mean history is no indicator of future success, right? LOL

[BGleas]

Just now, JSHoosier said:

Personally I think it's great how he's so insistent on what he thinks Woodson will do, and completely ignores what Woodson has actually shown.

Yeah, and it's like Woodson is in this position by design. 

This isn't a strategy, this is an, "oh crap, we're screwed. What do we do now?"

[theriverpilot]

58 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

he already has some very probable immediate portal additions. Don’t have to wait for portal to open to know those. those conversations have been happening

Some interesting points but what insight(s) do you have to label these additions as “probable”? I ask because Woodson already has a reputation for hit-n-miss on the higher level portal players. 
Also, what’s plan B if those probable additions don’t pan out?

[southernindianahoosier2]

Posted elsewhere but:

Woodson wants to buy experienced, aging, and expensive players turning IU into the Yankees.

But given his 2 point guards that stylistic couldn’t be further apart, he doesn’t have a strategy on what he’s going to target to plug into his system that has yet to be defined.

And in doing so, we’ll likely miss on Dusty May

What have I missed?

[JSHoosier]

1 minute ago, BGleas said:

Yeah, and it's like Woodson is in this position by design. 

This isn't a strategy, this is an, "oh crap, we're screwed. What do we do now?"

Or thinking Woodson the player means jack about Woodson the coach. Good player doesn't equate to good executive or coach.

[Silat Player]

Just now, theriverpilot said:

Some interesting points but what insight(s) do you have to label these additions as “probable”? I ask because Woodson already has a reputation for hit-n-miss on the higher level portal players. 
Also, what’s plan B if those probable additions don’t pan out?

There is no plan B. Woodson have very much shown that to be true. 

Consider the portal last year and all the guards we got. And the 2024 HS recruiting class...

[GloryDays]

21 minutes ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

Attention everyone.  IU is the only school in the entire country that is going to have $$ to throw at portal players.  Every other school has been notified that all NIL contributions must cease immediately.

That continued argument  re:  our huge NIL war chest is laughable that we're going to literally outbid every other program to fill a roster for a mediocre coach to mismanage.

 

 

 

 

 

 Absolutely,and the best 10 or so players in the portal will likely be scooped up by superior teams that need to fill a hole or two.

[94Bulldog]

I’m not sure where to post this other than the hottest thread on this site, but MODS…..

can we PLEASE add the ability to block the quote of someone you’re ignoring when others reply to them??  Thanks 

[HoosierTrav]

46 minutes ago, Hoosierfanyuh said:

Ok cool now what about the part where he doesn’t value the 3? Or he had to be told to go to a sectional game? Or where he strikes out on the top national guys like he did this year? 

Just 3D chess man. Woody’s has been playing possum this entire time. Truthfully, he’s a genius and super high energy. While he was missing the 20+ prime recruiting days, he was working tirelessly to identify and watch film on portal players that fit his modern system of inside out ball and completely ignoring fugazi analytics data. 
 

We’re just underestimating Woody guys. His incredible will to win as a player has led to an ASTONISHING career win % of .463  at the NBA level. That winning like…..ALMOST HALF of his games! 
 

You guys are just meanies and non knowers of ball… or 3D chess. Completely unfair criticisms of a genius coach. 

[AZ Hoosier]

20 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

You are looking at one year. kSU for example had 9 on that run they made. 
Plenty of examples in what is a small data set with less funds. 

So you want Woodson to spend a crapload of other people's money so he can hire a team of mercenaries for one year to show the world what an awesome coach he is?

First, that's the most stupid thing I've ever read and secondly, it will never happen.

[Uspshoosier]

Of course teams and coaches can make a run with only transfers. There are examples from this year and in the past. However since this is the Fire Mike Woodson thread I’m guessing not many in here believe he would be one of the coaches that could pull it off.    It’s that simple majority are ready to move on from the current staff.   Doesn’t matter if it’s a proven winner, mid major, high major, risky or long time assistant they want change yesterday.   Viewing the current state of all aspects of this program heading into year 4 I can’t blame them.  I’m sure most know i wanted a college lifer coaching and heading into year 4 that remains the same.  This program needs a grinder and he most certainly isn’t that 

[go iu bb]

7 minutes ago, Silat Player said:

Of course, I mean history is no indicator of future success, right? LOL

IU likes to use the reverse as a way to keep coaches too long: past failure is no indicator of future failure.

[Stuhoo]

27 minutes ago, IndyHoops said:

Florida is the only team to bring in 6 or more transfers in one year and be successful. 

Illinois brought in 3 and Colorado State brought in 2 this year.

Kansas State is 18-13 (8-10) this year.

 

And that one positive example, Florida?

Their tournament hopes just took a major hit with a loss just now to?

Vanderbilt

[JSHoosier]

4 minutes ago, theriverpilot said:

Some interesting points but what insight(s) do you have to label these additions as “probable”? I ask because Woodson already has a reputation for hit-n-miss on the higher level portal players. 
Also, what’s plan B if those probable additions don’t pan out?

[Cd71]

2 hours ago, rcbowla said:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/1h6C7TOiucJUmQhskWJona?si=V14b37PSQtqMrr5zKPpMcQ

For those that want to blame the fans. Galen gives you some truth serum.

Thanks for that.  This was a good listen.  I thought one significant point he made is when you recruit freshman and coaches have a relationship with them, along with the fans as they grow as part of the IU family it is more likely fans will still support them if the season isn’t meeting expectations. When you have players coming in that are portal players, and your whole team is pretty much that, it is easier to become hostile because we don’t really know these players.  Does anyone else agree with this?  I mean I had been watching LM any chance I had because he was coming here.  

[OKHOOSIER]

To go in a different direction, and I am just spit balling here, what does everyone think about potential locker room dynamics with the players that stay and the players we purchase? Does it fracture? Really curious how someone like MR or GC would feel about playing with 4-6 new hired hands? Seems awkward, but maybe money is all that matters and as long as everyone is getting theirs it will be fine. Thoughts?

[IUCrazy2]

Just now, Stuhoo said:

And that one positive example, Florida?

Their tournament hopes just took a major hit with a loss just now to?

Vanderbilt

How are they selling this?  Seriously, I want to be in a room with the Cooks and Simons discussing investment opportunities in my pet rock business if they think dropping $6 million on a likely bubble ceiling basketball team is a good use of their money.  I have always heard that rich people did not get that way by being stupid and wasting money but here we are.....

[JSHoosier]

7 minutes ago, HoosierTrav said:

Just 3D chess man. Woody’s has been playing possum this entire time. Truthfully, he’s a genius and super high energy. While he was missing the 20+ prime recruiting days, he was working tirelessly to identify and watch film on portal players that fit his modern system of inside out ball and completely ignoring fugazi analytics data. 
 

We’re just underestimating Woody guys. His incredible will to win as a player has led to an ASTONISHING career win % of .463  at the NBA level. That winning like…..ALMOST HALF of his games! 
 

You guys are just meanies and non knowers of ball… or 3D chess. Completely unfair criticisms of a genius coach. 

He'll be unbeatable once Armond Hill wakes up.