BGleas

How could you still add players at this point? Or, have we agreed to 100% ignore actual college? Like, are we not even pretending anymore?

Defensive effort and energy much better in the 2nd half.

Yeah, it's weird to have PG on my team after all these years. He did surprise me in the playoffs last season vs Boston as he really accepted his role and excelled in it during that series. Optimistic about that. Interesting, soft isn't a word I would use with Tatum. It will probably change post-Achilles, but he's always been an anti-load management guy. He's a team-first super-star. Scored 46 on the road in Game 6 in 2022 down 3-2 to the defending champ Bucks when Giannis was at his peak. Most points in a Game 7 all-time. Led the Celtics in points, rebounds and assists during their championship run. Played center defensively in that Finals. Super strong rebounder for his position, etc., etc. I will give you that his efficiency has seemed to drop in the playoffs the last few years and it feels like it drops sometimes even more in crunch time. Definitely acknowledge that. In defense of that though, if you really watch the Celtics, defenses completely gameplan to stop Tatum. The Pacers and Mavs in the 2024 run were shading 2-3 guys at Tatum. In the 2022 Finals (admittedly not his best performance) the Warriors said their gameplan was to stop Tatum and they basically left Brown open. A lot gets made of Brown winning the Finals MVP, but I'm a firm believer Tatum should have gotten it. I will admit with Tatum that he has superstar playoff games, but not necessarily superstar playoff moments. He'll have that 46 point Game 6 on the road againt Giannis where you win by 12 (not sure what we actually won that game by) or the 51 point Game 7 against Philly where you win by double-digits. He's not as great in the playoff moments down the stretch where it's a possession game and you need your superstar to hit 3-4 shots in a row in the last 2 minutes to win the game.

I think you either trade just Brown or you rebuild completely and trade both. The Achilles gives me pause, but you can build a championship contender around Tatum. He's a #1. Brown isn't. I'm not gonna claim to be an advanced metrics expert, but are you only looking at last season? I'm pretty sure the Celtics were deeply negative in the Philly series when Brown was on. From everything I've ever read the analytics part of basketball world doesn't think very much of Jaylen Brown. The Celtics are usually positive with Tatum lineups and negative with Brown lineups. Again I'm not an expert, but for their careers Tatum is far better in most advanced metrics.

I'll say this. Losing Brown sucks in the fact that the return wasn't what you'd hope for and that he was a homegrown star who had played 10 years for the C's and of course has the Finals MVP. With that said, I think the Celtics as of now are better next season than they were last season. If healthy, this isn't going to be some major drop-off. They may not win 56 games because the East will be a lot better (Sixers, Pacers, Raptors, Heat will all be better), but this is a playoff team still. The roster as of now is better than the roster last season. Tatum replacing Brown is an upgrade, and so far we've replaced Vucivic with PG, Mitchell Robinson and Mike Conley. The Celtics aren't a champion contender but it's a better roster than what we had entering last season.

Now that the initial shock of the trade is beginning to wear off, I think some things are clear. I love Jaylen Brown, my kids grew up on "The Jays", but the reality is the Celtics were not going to give him the Super Max extension that he is eligible for this summer. They were already struggling with paying him #1 money when he's a #2 on a title team, and the window was closing or even closed on the Tatum/Brown Celtics given new ownership and all of these different "apron" rules. The Celtics weren't going to commit to paying him $70M annually as he approaches the other side of 30 and would have had to commit to paying him that at 33-35 years old. I love Brown, but Tatum is the better player by quite a bit and teams no longer want to pay two guys the Super Max. The package Stevens got in return sucks. But it also shows nobody else was really willing to commit those dollars to Brown either. Teams want to reserve the Super Max for top 5 guys, not guys in the 10-25/30 range.

Yup. The easy part is done. They have a high-level, potentially elite core. Now they need to optimize the pieces around them.

Yeah, I don't know what the Spurs do with Fox. IMO I put him above Mitch Johnson as far as blame for this series, and Mitch Johnson was pretty bad, so that tells you how awful Fox was. They have to figure something out. Harper needs to take over, but you can't have Fox coming off the bench. In Celtics fan circles a few weeks ago there was talk that Fox would be a good fit with Tatum and Brown. After watching Fox the last two series, and I get he had a hurt ankle, but hell no. I don't want him anywhere near my team.

Yeah, like I said Wemby is a phenomenal, dominant freakish player. No doubt. And like you said, he's only 22 and will continue to get even better. No doubt about all of that. If/when the Spurs do win a title, he'll almost assuredly be the Finals MVP. But with that said, to be a closer he's going to have to develop an unstoppable offensive move or bag. He's super young, but at this point he's not a guy that in a close, tight playoff game that you clear out on 3-4 straight possessions and say, "take us home big fella". He's more LeBron than he is Jordan/Kobe. All three all-time greats with multiple titles and Finals MVPs.

Agree. As a Celtics fan I'll always love Luke Kornet, but his minutes killed the Spurs in this series. They need a quality big that can allow Wemby to rest in the playoffs and also play alongside him for stretches. They need an Al Horford type that can play with Wemby and spell him as well. The Spurs definitely have a bright future. They need to figure out the De'Aron Fox situation because Harper will need to become the point guard, and Fox absolutely killed them. I think he had money on the Knicks.

The Spurs are going to have to hope Harper develops into a closer, which is entirely possible, or they will need to acquire one. Wemby is obviously phenomenal and a freak of nature, but he's not an offensive game closer. He doesn't have a reliable offensive go-to move. In close games in the NBA you need a guy or two that you know can get you buckets under pressure. The Spurs are super young and can develop it, but right now they don't have it, and it showed when these games got to winning time.

Yeah, it's interesting. OG is great and a super impactful player, but I'm even surprised people have him above VO. I'm a Celtics fan and don't get me wrong, I'd would take OG on my team any time. With that said while his career was derailed by injuries so the longevity isn't there, VO was a two-time all star. OG to this point has never really sniffed an all star team. Team success is obviously important, but when talking best players there are levels and team success seperates you within those levels. So to me, VO being a two-time all-star puts him at a level above OG. Maybe a Finals MVP levels that a bit.

Yeah, Madar was a 2020 Celtics draft pick. Dude was drafted 6 years ago and played in the 2021 Vegas Summer League!?!? Bilas is the worst. He's literally trying to destroy the same system that made his adult life what it is.