IUBB vs Ohio State Game Thread: 1/11/20 @noon...WILL HE BE THERE?!?

[Honkyman]

The best pass of the Northwestern game was Devonte Green to Justin Smith for the slam. Green is the best shooter and the best passer on the IU team. He just seems to lack the discipline to put that talent for consistent play.

[yogisballin]

I sold mine a few weeks back. No way I’m going to anymore IUBB games this year


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[Brass Cannon]

Green is not the best passer. He is the most flashy. For every awesome pass he has two that are terrible. 
 

Frankly I Hope Archie just sits Green and Deron. Run with everybody else this game. If that means we have to play small because of foul trouble so be it. 

[Rico]

17 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Green is not the best passer. He is the most flashy. For every awesome pass he has two that are terrible. 
 

Frankly I Hope Archie just sits Green and Deron. Run with everybody else this game. If that means we have to play small because of foul trouble so be it. 

I think Green has to play...how much PT he gets remains to be seen.

[SlamaJamaSisley]

24 minutes ago, Rico said:

I think Green has to play...how much PT he gets remains to be seen.

I agree.  I think for Archie's sake, he better not start.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

I think Green has to play...how much PT he gets remains to be seen.

He doesn’t have to play and shouldn’t play a second. But Archie will likely start him.


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[Rico]

2 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

He doesn’t have to play and shouldn’t play a second. But Archie will likely start him.


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Who is our back-up PG?

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

Who is our back-up PG?

Who cares? Green doesn’t care about playing or being part of team. He needs to sit the bench. We can play with just Phinisee, Durham and Franklin.


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[BGleas]

I think the best outcome for IU is Archie devlivering in his statement about shortening the rotation. Bench Green and Davis, play a small, tight rotation. The hopeful outcome is that it galvanizes the guys in the rotation and hopefully we can steal a win from OSU, but the other outcome is that it hopefully whips Green into shape and he decides he wants to be a part of this team. 

Can IU win without Green? Yes, because he makes so many bad, selfish plays. But, IU can’t reach its full potential without ‘good Devonte’. Might be wishful thinking, but it would be great if it played out that way. 

[cthomas]

3 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Who cares? Green doesn’t care about playing or being part of team. He needs to sit the bench. We can play with just Phinisee, Durham and Franklin.


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I'm all for evaluating how well kids play and their strengths and weaknesses. But, to say Green doesn't care or is selfish or whatever other negative trait people have been saying about him is a stretch at best. He's not my favorite player because I'm just not a fan of his style. He likely would have fared better in Crean's offense which was more free flowing. However, I'm not going to call him selfish or a cancer in the locker room. Remember not everyone expresses emotion in the same way. It's Miller's job to put him in the optimal position to be the best he can be in this offense. If he can't do what he's supposed to, then he should sit. But let's not attack his character.

[Hutch89]

23 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

You think it’s an insult. Sadly you’d be insulting quite a few here.


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lol please stop 

[Chris007]

25 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

He doesn’t have to play and shouldn’t play a second. But Archie will likely start him.


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I don't think that's going to happen unless something drastic happened yesterday or today at practice. 

[IUc2016]

I don't think that's going to happen unless something drastic happened yesterday or today at practice. 

Which part, him not playing or not starting?


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[Chris007]

1 minute ago, IUc2016 said:

Which part, him not playing or not starting?


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I guess I should just say that I was told that the postgame was different than any other postgame ever in the Archie era. Much different. 

[ray]

8 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

Green is not the best passer. He is the most flashy. For every awesome pass he has two that are terrible. 
 

Frankly I Hope Archie just sits Green and Deron. Run with everybody else this game. If that means we have to play small because of foul trouble so be it. 

I’m not sure what happened on the bench at Northwestern or why it happened, but I hate bad attitudes (if that’s what it was). Bad attitudes are toxic. 

I can see how there could be a lack of interest coming from DeRon considering he is averaging 7 minutes a game. I’m sure he’s also frustrated to go from a 60+% fg shooter two years in a row to 26.9% this year. Regardless of all this, there is no reason a player can’t support his teammates (again, if this is actually true), especially from a senior who mentioned the main reason for sticking around was due to closeness to teammates and loyalty to the university. 

With all that said, I would be surprised not to see DeRon play some minutes against Wesson, whether those minutes come from desperation due to foul troubles elsewhere on the roster or because DeRon has been the most successful against Wesson in the past (granted, there are two newcomers to the roster who have yet to play against Wesson). I am also taking for granted that DeRon is nothing like I hoped from him this season. 

As for Green, I have a feeling he plays and if he’s scoring like the last outing against OSU then it will be hard to sit him (especially if the majority of the offense is abysmal as we’ve seen too much lately). 

I have a feeling Green will come in and either toss up crap shots as we’ve seen before trying to impress upon the coaches to offer him more time and will be pulled and possibly sit long spans the remainder of the season, or he’ll come in with that same agenda and his shots will fall with ease and we’ll be glad Archie gave him another chance (and he’ll remind us that his inconsistency is inevitable but his scoring when he’s on is an absolute necessity for a team struggling mightily to score points). 

I just ask that Archie severely tighten the leash on ANY player not playing with FULL energy and within the game plan. With a team playing with lackluster effort for 10-20 minutes a game and a stagnant offense sometimes for 30 minutes a game or more, I think Green will be needed. And, as much as I can’t stand bad attitudes, I think a chip on the shoulder (even if the chip is coming from the coach) ignites Green to play either out of his mind (good for Indiana) or mindless (bad for Indiana). I also believe no one can really call Green out for not playing with energy (something that much of the team seems to lose for long spells), but rather that he lets his energy get the best of him much of the time and plays out of control. I won’t dock him for low energy, as I’ve never really seen him play without it, but I will dock him for his poor decision making with passes and shot selection. 

I hope Brunk and TJD continue to work as hard as they have and stay out of foul trouble, but I would be surprised if Archie doesn’t use Davis for some minutes to either spell the others or to see if his big body can be effective against Wesson. More than any game thus far, I am betting Davis gets a shot. Whether he picks up 2 quick fouls and is pulled for the remainder of the game or whether he shoots 26% or closer to his 60% average from the past, I bet he logs minutes earlier in this one for Archie to test the waters. 

I hope other guards like Phinisee find their shots for what will seem like the first time all season, but I would be surprised if Green sits out for this match. 

Again, I don’t know what happened on the bench and if it’s toxic then I hope there has been a long sit-down meeting between the culprits. If so, then I hope a proper response is seen from the “said-toxic” players. If the toxicity and lack of discipline remains after this one (as well as lack of energy from ANY of the players), then I’m all for Archie sitting players out for long stretches, entire games, or even the rest of the season. The hesitation and patience I have is the fact I don’t know what’s going on (attitude, injury, frustration, etc) nor do I know what the coaches have said or done in practice or in the locker rooms or offices. 

Beating OSU will be even more challenging tomorrow as they’re skidding off course in a hurry and will be looking to remind the country and themselves why they were next up for the #1 slot before their recent skid. With that said, and knowing how crucial another home loss could be for Indiana, I’m guessing Archie will be pulling on the leashes a bit slowly and gingerly at first for this game. 

Go Hoosiers! Give me a reason to keep paying for YouTube access, as I’ve been seriously considering pulling the plug (which seems crazy for a 12-3 team, but I’m over the lack of effort witnessed lately).

[BGVille Hoosierfan]

I guess I should just say that I was told that the postgame was different than any other postgame ever in the Archie era. Much different. 

Love to hear this. Bring him off the bench and let him know he’s going to have to earn his minutes. If he’s playing carelessly or with little to no effort, Arch needs to pull him for the game. He’s a senior and there’s no reason he can’t figure things out and realize he has to play for the TEAM and not for Sportscenter.


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[Chris007]

7 minutes ago, jbell833 said:

Love to hear this. Bring him off the bench and let him know he’s going to have to earn his minutes. If he’s playing carelessly or with little to no effort, Arch needs to pull him for the game. He’s a senior and there’s no reason he can’t figure things out and realize he has to play for the TEAM and not for Sportscenter.


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It wasn't just Green though, he had a long list of people he went through.

[ray]

Chris, you obviously know more than I do. 

So, my gut feeling mentioned in the above post (while not knowing the inside scoop) remains the same. However, if the toxicity is legitimately true, then I would rather Indians lose fighting without certain players than reward bad attitudes with playing time. 

Smith is greatly improved this season, but all the remarks are about Green’s attitude (which I know nothing about other than what others claim), but Smith was on live television seemingly arguing with Archie. He came back in and played with more intensity and aggressiveness, so maybe there was less there than I worried. As for DeRon, he’s certainly disengaged, and I’m guessing it’s lack of opportunity and success. I’m just curious how much toxicity is spreading if it does in fact exist.  If it is cancerous, then why aren’t more drastic measures being taken considering this was the same locker room rumor as last season and Green came back as captain. 

[IUc2016]

24 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I guess I should just say that I was told that the postgame was different than any other postgame ever in the Archie era. Much different. 

Chris don't turn into Sam Story on me. I NEED SPECIFICS!!!!! 

I kid..... kinda 

[Chris007]

3 minutes ago, ray said:

Chris, you obviously know more than I do. 

So, my gut feeling mentioned in the above post (while not knowing the inside scoop) remains the same. However, if the toxicity is legitimately true, then I would rather Indians lose fighting without certain players than reward bad attitudes with playing time. 

Smith is greatly improved this season, but all the remarks are about Green’s attitude (which I know nothing about other than what others claim), but Smith was on live television seemingly arguing with Archie. He came back in and played with more intensity and aggressiveness, so maybe there was less there than I worried. As for DeRon, he’s certainly disengaged, and I’m guessing it’s lack of opportunity and success. I’m just curious how much toxicity is spreading if it does in fact exist.  If it is cancerous, then why aren’t more drastic measures being taken considering this was the same locker room rumor as last season and Green came back as captain. 

I do not know if it's toxic or not or the picture is an accurate description or not. I just spoke to someone who was in the locker room after the game. This person has been in the locker room for the last 10 years and he said it was unlike anything he has seen before. He said it seemed like Coach Knight in his heyday the way he was lighting these players up. There was talk about getting players off the team, making some transfer and just tired of not playing hard.

Now is the time to see if it was just talking or will something change tomorrow.