They “Retired” Coach Woodson Thread

[mamasa]

1 minute ago, Home Jersey said:

I take the blame on fans as spin from the staff because the McNeeleys probably worried that Woodson would not be there for the entirety of Liam's time there (past next season?). My own interpretation. Definitely could be wrong. I'm sure NGW will probably tell me that. Does the W stand for Woodson? :)

Now Go Woodson?

[Golfman25]

2 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

^^Gotta disagree with that one^^

No one knows 100% what's best. Hell, I prefer Dusty May but I flat-out might be wrong. Mike Woodson might bring us real, unquestionable success next year and beyond. My opinion? Not very likely. But I. Do. Not. Know.

That's why I have a different take:

1. Analyze trends and information.
2. Don't sweat the unimportant stuff.
3. Fully realize that people, including coaches, players, and message board posters, can get really salty and still have the best interests of IU in their hearts.
4. Root like hell for the Hoosiers no matter what.

Nah.  We know what's best.  A better Administration, a better coach and a better program.  You can study successful people, successful coaches and successful programs and determine their distinguishing characteristics. Then just copy them.  

You're right.  Nobody can know the future.  And we don't "know" Dusty May from Dusty Springfield.  But, we can sit down with him, ask him a few questions, get his thoughts on successful programs, wining, etc.  Add in his recent success.  And then, if we know the criteria outlined above, we can make a pretty educated determination whether he's "the guy" or not.   

[ray]

After spending twenty minutes skimming through the posts on this thread from today, I realize I have wasted too much time reading an ongoing argument about whose opinions are more accurate than the opinions of others. Woodson is not being fired and we already missed on Dalton Knecht, so why did I even bother?  I'll spend my time watching TJD slam on Wemby instead.

[SamIam]

I want to move on from Woody but this board has gone a little overboard. I think a truly mediocre or worse season next yr gets him canned. Dolson already looked into it, and certain portion of the fanbase isn't going to get any quieter unless we have a legitimately good year. Whatever Woody says, he's 66. The admin is going to be looking to what's next no matter what he does. 

Someone said that good point guards "might not even enter the portal," which is laughable. The portal is going to be way more insane than any other year. Every single player in the country is immediately eligible. There will be plenty of options, and even if we don't get the "top" guys, there will be more. MVC transfers like Domask and Jones have been great in the B1G this year, while the very sought after Timberlake was sort of disappointing at KU. We don't have to get the "top five" guys. We need one or two studs and solid depth. 

Building an entire roster through the portal does not work. But the senior day speeches seem to indicate that IU won't be doing that. We should have an experienced core coming back. I thought Woody was insane for talking about missing X, but we were 1-5 without him during his last injury and 4-0 since getting him back.  Per Bartorvik, we are the #20 team in the country on this win streak. Guys with MM's recruiting pedigree are serious breakout candidates. MR will be an upperclassmen. Even those of us who wanted a change have to admit there is some reason for hope. This has been a bad year. It has not been up to the standards of Indiana basketball. Now, the seat is hot, and the NIL coffers are full. There are no more excuses. If Woody fails to meet the program's expectations, he's gone.

For now I'm focusing on hoping IU's good play continues, and that OSU goes on a run so they hire Diebler.

[IUCrazy2]

16 minutes ago, Banksyrules said:

I started this thread and it's sad that you might leave but I understand. To the moderators I classify @Ngw7183  recent post as bullying and feel a warning is necessary. Chris you and I have had our disagreements about Woodson at the beginning but you were able to have proper reflection and change your viewpoint (right or wrong time will tell for both of us).  That ability to evolve is what we should all strive for. If developments were such that you in the future you feel that Woodson is again the right guy for the job, I would take your opinion way more seriously than people who are incapable of self reflection. 

Honest to god the very fact that it's come to this with the fan base shows that we're at an impasse with IU athletics and drastic changes have to be made.  

Woodson built a bridge for us...so that we could meet in the middle and bash each other's brains in.

He is going to be back.  It is happening.  He is going to have to build a roster with a method that he was pretty unsuccessful with last year.  I don't think he can do it consistently and have a team that looks much better than what he has been able to do so far.  Some people apparently believe the rent a player method is the future.  We will find out over the course of the next few months.

I think there are narratives that both sides have gotten wrong.  One side is getting their opportunity to pound their chests and brag now, we'll see who is saying "I told you so" next year.  I figure I win either way.  Woodson pulls an exciting year out of his rear end next year or he puts himself in a spot where he got his 4 years like Miller and we can have a real discussion about whether we want to spend more time dumping resources at him.

[hoosierhoo]

33 minutes ago, Tom White said:

That's OK, I have a clock. There is nobody on here that I blindly follow, and I have not questioned EVERYTHING you say. Heck, I have even quoted you to other posters who ask a question and I say "Well, according to Chris it is this or that". 

It is simply that I have learned we cannot take everything anyone says as a fact when asked to "connect the dots".  That doesn't only apply to things you say, but to most anything in general, be it from you, that "Trilly" guy, Rabjohns, the Kathy/Cathy person or whomever.

To me, all the rumors and inuendo fit in the category of fool me once/fool me twice. I will question everything not backed up by facts, period. 

Tom and Scott sitting around handing each other the different sections of the printed newspaper while CBS Evening News plays in the background.

 

[mamasa]

3 minutes ago, ray said:

After spending twenty minutes skimming through the posts on this thread from today, I realize I have wasted too much time reading an ongoing argument about whose opinions are more accurate than the opinions of others. Woodson is not being fired and we already missed on Dalton Knecht, so why did I even bother?  I'll spend my time watching TJD slam on Wemby instead.

Man, he posterized Vicky Vicky Wem Wem (that's Chick McGee from Bob & Tom's nickname for him)!!! Just beautiful!

[HoosierX]

51 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

I don’t know how many times I can explain this.
 

Portal doesn’t work like this. Period. Agents are involved. If you won’t guarantee spots to certain guys, you won’t get them. Then, if you do and go back on it, that agent won’t send you another guy again.

his only option was to tell X and Trey, these guys have the spot and not you. It is easy to play Monday morning quarterback but even if you say, heck yeah he should have, how would that have played out to every other guy on team and in future? Talk about a bad locker room.

Why different now, he has one spot fully open and Trey more than willing to go to bench for the help he didn’t have this year. Trey was frustrated with lack of help. Not Woody. That is what he wanted changed. 

Gotta admit, you post things that sound plausible, but I'm guessing it's pure conjecture.

Even if agents are rampant for tranfer portal players (I have no idea if that's true), I would be willing to bet that's not how things would play out. An agent is almost certainly not going to stop sending players to a university/coach, even if the agent gets upset about something. If the university/coach is willing to pay his client the most amount of money, an agent is not going to cut off his nose to spite his face.

[Home Jersey]

1 minute ago, HoosierX said:

Gotta admit, you post things that sound plausible, but I'm guessing it's pure conjecture.

Even if agents are rampant for tranfer portal players (I have no idea if that's true), I would be willing to bet that's not how things would play out. An agent is almost certainly not going to stop sending players to a university/coach, even if the agent gets upset about something. If the university/coach is willing to pay his client the most amount of money, an agent is not going to cut off his nose to spite his face.

I don't see why Gallo apparently would be okay with a bench role next year but wasn't this year? Not even open to the idea of the staff saying, hey we're bringing in a guard and you will have a chance to compete with X for the other starting spot? 

Anyhow its all water under the bridge now since he is back next year. Please prove people wrong Mike

[Stuhoo]

1 hour ago, Ngw7183 said:

I don’t know how many times I can explain this.
 

Portal doesn’t work like this. Period. Agents are involved. If you won’t guarantee spots to certain guys, you won’t get them. Then, if you do and go back on it, that agent won’t send you another guy again.

his only option was to tell X and Trey, these guys have the spot and not you. It is easy to play Monday morning quarterback but even if you say, heck yeah he should have, how would that have played out to every other guy on team and in future? Talk about a bad locker room.

Why different now, he has one spot fully open and Trey more than willing to go to bench for the help he didn’t have this year. Trey was frustrated with lack of help. Not Woody. That is what he wanted changed. 

Okay, sure. But here's the other rub:

It has been Woody's job to make the decisions on who to promise playing time and featured roles to, and who not to. At the expense of other options, they chose to go with Trey and X and put their faith in CJ Gunn as depth.

Trey? Sure. He's limited but had an excellent year last year and does a number of things well. X? He was seriously injured with a foot that could have been a recurring problem, in the past he's been in various kinds of trouble, and most of all, he wasn't at all guaranteed to get that sixth year. CJ? They saw him every day last year and completely mis-judged how good he would be this year. Completely misjudged. 

So our staff made the choice to not say "sayonara" to X and replace him and CJ with different guard(s). It did not work out all that well. And that effected winning, which is ultimately how the staff will be judged. If X leads us to four more straight wins and a Sweet Sixteen? Unlikely, but if that happens the staff should gets all the credit for sticking with X.

 

[Banksyrules]

1 minute ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Woodson built a bridge for us...so that we could meet in the middle and bash each other's brains in.

He is going to be back.  It is happening.  He is going to have to build a roster with a method that he was pretty unsuccessful with last year.  I don't think he can do it consistently and have a team that looks much better than what he has been able to do so far.  Some people apparently believe the rent a player method is the future.  We will find out over the course of the next few months.

I think there are narratives that both sides have gotten wrong.  One side is getting their opportunity to pound their chests and brag now, we'll see who is saying "I told you so" next year.  I figure I win either way.  Woodson pulls an exciting year out of his rear end next year or he puts himself in a spot where he got his 4 years like Miller and we can have a real discussion about whether we want to spend more time dumping resources at him.

I have no problem with dissent , but I don't like character assassination especially from someone who can't even fathom being wrong in certain aspects. In the beginning of Woodson's tenure I got bashed hard for opposing the hiring but none of the people who bashed me never made it personal.  That was personal, and it conflates what was a peaceful debate. 

[Adillac]

I would bet that Liam has talked to current players and they have told him there will be upheaval on the roster after the season (transfers, etc) and with Queen also deciding not to come to IU (and Boogie) Liam probably felt like he was the only one signing up for this team.  

[Tasmanian Devil]

1 hour ago, Ngw7183 said:

 

“But Woody isn’t a winner” - so it isn’t about pushing back, it is he hasn’t won. Cool, then we solved that. Simply win. The rest is people getting up in their feelings because they got called out. 

It goes a bit deeper than “simply win”.

Right now, we’ve won 4 games in a row. Getting X back has contributed to that, sure. But it is also attributed to WHO they have played and the recent success of those teams.

Consider:

*Wisconsin: 3-7 in their last 10 games 

*Maryland: 2-8 in their last 10 games

*Minnesota: 4-6 in their last 10 games

*Michigan St: 5-5 in their last 10 games 

Don’t forget it took a fire alarm to slow the Wisconsin momentum of coming back from 15 down to tying the score. We had a 17 point lead over Michigan St that was completely erased before pulling it out. We were down 15 in the second half at Maryland before rallying to win.

There is no consistency in play. Let me say that again, THERE IS NO CONSISTENCY IN PLAY. Which is why so many on here feel the way they do. Sure, we won 4 straight, but we did it over teams playing mediocre at best.

In five games against Top 10 team from Kenpom (UCONN, Auburn, Purdue, Illinois) we have lost by an AVERAGE of 19.4 points. Those teams shot an average of 43.9%  from the field, 37.1% from outside the 3-pt arc and 75.5% from the FT line. IU averaged 42.1, 23.3, and 61.2 for those 5 games.

THIS is why people are pi$$ed. Mike Woodson promised competing for Big 10 and National Championships. He hasn’t come close to either, in large part because of style of play and recruiting. 
 

So be happy with winning. But don’t be condescending to those of us who aren’t. As I’ve shown you above, IU has done nothing during this win streak to indicate wins are sustainable against good competition.

[Stuhoo]

52 minutes ago, IndyHoops said:

You are listing the exact reasons you don’t build a roster in the portal. You do know that, right? 

Oooh, don't know about that one (though X was portalist once upon a time).

I think the lesson of "what not to do" by Woodson at IU has been that he put his faith in a non-portal guard group (X, Cupps, Trey, Gunn, and Newton) that has been injured and/or and ineffective, instead of replacing them with the portal.

[go iu bb]

1 hour ago, iubb said:

this thread is a toxic tire fire and everyone is fighting with each other....

 

Feels like it needs to be locked for a bit so the temperate can cool down

Instead of locking it:

[IUCrazy2]

22 minutes ago, Banksyrules said:

I have no problem with dissent , but I don't like character assassination especially from someone who can't even fathom being wrong in certain aspects. In the beginning of Woodson's tenure I got bashed hard for opposing the hiring but none of the people who bashed me never made it personal.  That was personal, and it conflates what was a peaceful debate. 

Yeah I wasn't even commenting on that.  I am kind of torn between whether my problem is with the information (it is a bit) or the way it is being delivered.

I think this is going to be a ---- show and Woodson is either a mildly competent coach, lazy and entitled, or some mix of all of that which is going to ensure he won't be regularly successful here.  I think we have about seen his ceiling already and this portal things is an expensive Hail Mary from a group with a bunch of pull within the University decision making structure trying to save face.

I am assuming we are seeing the University politics play out between Chris and NGW.  I think the thing annoying people about NGW isn't really the tone, it is that they think he is wrong and Woodson is wrong but you are really kind of helpless to do anything about it.  Nobody gives a crap about the know-it-all tone if things are going differently.  If he sticks around and this doesn't work out, the tone is setting NGW up to really hear about it next winter and spring though.

[NashvilleHoosier]

1 hour ago, Ngw7183 said:

his only option was to tell X and Trey, these guys have the spot and not you. It is easy to play Monday morning quarterback but even if you say, heck yeah he should have, how would that have played out to every other guy on team and in future? Talk about a bad locker room.

So to play out the Dalton Knecht example. How is that locker room working out? Vescovi has sacrificed playing time even though he committed to come back before Knecht committed. Jordan-James came back after Knecht committed. Someone was losing a spot. You've suggested that Knecht was promised a starting spot at UT, which would mean others were told they no longer had a starting spot. All that landed them was an outright SEC championship and competing for a #1 seed. Tough locker room situation.

[mamasa]

Man, I have to drive my hour home. Feel like I'm leaving a party when it's really kicking into gear. I'm guessing I'll have a lot to catch up on lol.

[Bowhunter]

I am more upset about not recruiting our home state. If he would just land some of the Sisleys and Mullins type in-state recruits, I would lay off a bit. Going portal only is not a recipe for success long term.

[rcbowla]

Things are going well here I see. Man, this sucks. We all have a common desire and that is for IUBB to be great again. Yet, here we are fighting amongst ourselves. This is what happens when a coach says "you're either with me or against me". No matter how you spin it, he f'd up saying that crap.