Fire Coach Woodson Thread

[Hoosierfan2017 20,329]

9 minutes ago, ISP said:

It seems like the likelihood of replacement increases by about +5% with each loss, +5% with each double digit loss, and 3% with each horrid post game presser. 

With that said, if you are Dolson - I don't see how you don't make the move knowing that Pearl is backdoor lobbying for the job. You have to set the "feelings" aside with Woody being an IU saint and make the move because it's a clear path to improving the program. 

Is Pearl really backdoor lobbying? Because if he is, retaining Woodson would 100% be a fireable offense. 

[IndyHoops 461]

5 minutes ago, lillurk said:

A couple thoughts in the clear light of morning:

1. I don’t doubt IU/Dolson are interested in Pearl. I don’t doubt Pearl is interested sincerely — not of the mind that he’s just lobbying for a raise. But I remain skeptical both sides will ultimately pull the trigger (this is an opinion, no one needs to tell me I’m wrong).

2. Seems like lots of the Pearl-over-May opinion is rooted in an idea that Pearl is already one of the best coaches going and May might get there one day. I think they’re both among the best guys going (and there’s much more to May’s resume than the detractors keep saying).

3. As @RaceToTheTop pointed out, there’s all this hand-wringing about “how would May level up?” But he’s 7-2 — ALL ROAD AND NEUTRAL — against P5 teams in the past two seasons. Even if you throw in the F4 loss to a team as good as most P5 squads, that’s 7-3…70%. You take that. And he would absolutely, positively have more talent at IU than at FAU from day 1.

I think people on this board are really underestimating Cronin as a candidate. 

[Uspshoosier 44,654]

16 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I think word has gotten out this wasn't Scott's first choice as coach, so he will be able to correct this mistake now. Woody had the right people backing him, but he made too many mistakes. 

He shouldn’t have been his first choice  and if he was his first choice IU was always in trouble.     I’ve said it before but my opinion was he took a chance on a safe net choice to try and bridge the fan base and former players together.  They have been asking for the IU guy and enough high ups were on board they went with the high risk option.    I have no doubt he can coach basketball and has forgotten more about basketball then I could know but coaching NBA players is a heck of a lot different then teaching and coaching players that don’t have NBA skill level.   He says coaching is coaching and he would be fine but as most  on here knows is the only thing NBA and college have in common is they are played witb a basketball.   3 years ago IU chose a coach that has the same amount of college experience running a program as everyone on this message board.  Think about that. IU historic  and proud program voluntarily went with a coach with 0 college basketball coaching experience.  IU isn’t the job for a coach to learn on the fly and all it would take would be 1 bad season for  things to go south.   Being 66 and only being in your 3rd of experience to try and turn around a train wreck is not an ideal situation to be in.   Recruiting is the lifeblood of a program and him going a non traditional approach to it with only 3 years of experience was always ridiculous.  He over valued IUs program in the college basketball landscape and he overvalued his own value as a college basketball coach thinking kids would crawl to Bloomington without putting in the work and sending assistants to do the heavy lifting.   If it was only 1 thing to fix I could see them fixing it however when there are tiny holes everywhere that need fixing that dam is just going to break.   IU is in a terrible spot who needs a college lifer coach to begin the healing process 

[RaceToTheTop 24,421]

12 hours ago, AH1971 said:

The jump from C-USA to the Atlantic (after Houston, Cincy, and UCF bolted) doesn’t compare to the jump from the Atlantic to the B10. I think the drastic decline in defensive efficiency in one year with the same core is alarming. I’d have concerns with May going up against the likes of Izzo, Painter, Underwood, etc on top of the big dogs when it comes to recruiting. 

C USA was solid in its last year.  FAU went to the final four and the NIT championship was between two CUSA teams.

You also aren't mentioning that while the defensive efficiency dropped, the offensive efficiency rose.  It seems to me that you are using Florida Atlantic's overachievement in 2022-23 against May.  Regression was to be expected even with everyone back.  Fact remains that this year's FAU numbers would have the Owls as the third best offensive team in the Big Ten and there would still be five worse defensive teams.  Overall efficiency would put them fifth in the Big Ten this year and solidly in the tournament despite not having the talent of some teams that are ahead of.

[IndyHoops 461]

7 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

Reading comprehension is a good thing 

Long story short, IU gets nothing from keeping Woodson another year. It’s painfully obvious he should have never been hired and wasn’t a long term solution anyway. 

[jbeaman9 1,013]

25 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Everything people are saying out loud is he will be back. I will say it has gone from he will get his 4th year, to he will get his 4th year if things don't go off the rails, to everything will be discussed after the season.

But there are whispers that everyone knows this isn't heading in the right direction. That a change needs made but you have to make the right next hire. I think Scott has a list. Can you get all the money lined up, can you make the fiances work? But I think you will lose money in the long run by keeping him. JMO

If I remember correctly, when Allen was fired there was obviously a lot of loud unhappy fans making their opinions heard but no one was saying that he would be back out loud, they just weren't saying anything. Then, seemingly out of nowhere, he was fired. Dolson did a very good job of keeping that quiet until it was done. 

[RaceToTheTop 24,421]

3 minutes ago, IndyHoops said:

I think people on this board are really underestimating Cronin as a candidate. 

I like May but Cronin is a good coach as well.  I don't know about him leaving UCLA, though.

[Chris007 42,958]

5 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Is Pearl really backdoor lobbying? Because if he is, retaining Woodson would 100% be a fireable offense. 

I think it's how you interpret things. His agent telling Trilly he would be interested in the job. Or his people saying it is his dream job. Him interviewing with Norlander this week saying he is open to moving on to a new job. Are those signs? Or his he just playing the game?

[Uspshoosier 44,654]

Just now, RaceToTheTop said:

I like May but Cronin is a good coach as well.  I don't know about him leaving UCLA, though.

He wants out of ucla as fast as possible.  Their NIL is not what it should be 

[hper50 1,178]

6 minutes ago, IndyHoops said:

I think people on this board are really underestimating Cronin as a candidate. 

I tend to agree. I think he's a Grade A Pr!ck but at this point, I'd be okay with hiring Ivan the Terrible if he'd win

[JF87 1,413]

NGW7183 is probably correct in that if boosters are going to pay another buyout, they are going to want a proven winner.  That's where it becomes tricky.  What is a proven winner?  Matt Painter has won consistently, won Big Ten titles, been ranked number 1 overall, and never been to a Final 4.  Scott Drew has won consistently and won a NCAA Championship.  He's also only won 2 regular season championships in the 20 years he's been at Baylor.  Cronin wins consistently, almost always makes the NCAA tournament, been to a Final Four.  He has won only one regular season championship in his 5 years at UCLA and rumor is that UCLA wouldn't be terribly upset if he left.  Cronin also isn't a rainbow and sunshine personality.  Bruce Pearl has a great personality and career record. However, he's only made 1 Final Four in his career.  My point is there is no perfect candidate. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  

I think the real question is what do we want IU to be?  A national recruiter like Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, etc. or a regional recruiter of Indiana, Illinois, Ohio, Michigan and then occasionally pull in a top national recruit?  Do we want primarily 1 or 2-year players or do we want 4-year guys and sprinkle in an occasional one and done?  Do we want an offensive oriented coach or do we want a defensive oriented coach?  In my mind, these are the questions that Dolson and the powers that be need to answer before selecting a future coach whenever that may be.  

[Hoosierfan2017 20,329]

11 minutes ago, IndyHoops said:

I think people on this board are really underestimating Cronin as a candidate. 

I think he’d be a great hire but it sounds like he’s a weirdo. 

[Go_Hoosiers 191]

The #1 reason Cronin won't be hired is that we've hired two straight coaches with dreadful offenses. Our next coach is going to be someone who has a track record of offensive efficiency, recruiting shooters.

[Stuhoo 77,413]

Mick Cronin gets it done. He seems like a surly guy; okay, not everyone is Teri Moren-level relatable.

He's (only?) 52 and he's from Cincinnati. I believe he would want the IU job, and I believe that IU could get him here. If we did our team would play with intensity for the foreseeable future. While there's no 'perfect' hire, he's as close to a guaranteed winner under the age of 55 as there is.

And he surely has one thing in common with RMK! He was on the verge of beating Teddy Valentine's @$$:

 

[8bucks 6,250]

38 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

For me, this is about the future. As many have said we're about to start a total rebuild. Woodson hasn't ever done that. After seeing how he has handled the roster the first three years do we trust him with rebuilding the roster? He has lost the majority of the fans (hence the booing) to have confidence in him getting the job done at his age. We're going to lose players to the portal, with no confidence in him bringing in players, the 25 class is crucial but who wants to come play for a lame duck coach? NIL money will drop from fans. If he is brought back the first loss next season the boos will be back. This stat stood out to me. The last 10 losses have been by double digits. We're not even playing games close right now. I feel like it is do or die for the program. 

I think word has gotten out this wasn't Scott's first choice as coach, so he will be able to correct this mistake now. Woody had the right people backing him, but he made too many mistakes. 

I do not disagree.  I think the points that @Ngw7183 was making about whether donors are going to be willing to shell out big money for a buyout would likely come with strings attached to hiring someone who is more of a sure thing.  We have not done the sure thing hire before and like you described with one donor willing to contribute a lot of money if we could have hired BS last time, I think this is a similar point that NGW is making.  Sure he may be one of a few who think Woody should stay but the rest of his post makes a strong case for why some big money donors may become willing to act but only if we are able to land a sure thing.  

[NashvilleHoosier 3,643]

9 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I think it's how you interpret things. First, getting Indiana on the schedule and absolutely kicking their a$$ on national TV for everyone who cares to see. His agent telling Trilly he would be interested in the job. Or his people saying it is his dream job. Him interviewing with Norlander this week saying he is open to moving on to a new job. Are those signs? Or his he just playing the game?

You left something out. I've added it here.

[Artie86 1,728]

4 minutes ago, ISP said:

It seems like the likelihood of replacement increases by about +5% with each loss, +5% with each double digit loss, and 3% with each horrid post game presser. 

With that said, if you are Dolson - I don't see how you don't make the move knowing that Pearl is backdoor lobbying for the job. You have to set the "feelings" aside with Woody being an IU saint and make the move because it's a clear path to improving the program. 

I think we can all agree, that one of the biggest issues about this current coaching situation and "The BIG Elephant in the Room", is because Coach Woodson is former IU BB royalty.

Obviously, this story couldn't have been written any better for both parties......, if it was flourishing and successful. It's creating doubt, division and total animosity.

I want/wanted this to work out in the biggest way, for both parties. Complete and total change is needed to fix this "blown engine".

IMO, this is the statement that needs to confidently said and used in this current situation...."It's nothing personal, but at the end of the day this a strictly a business decision!"  

Also, I feel there are too many people emotionally invested in this to see what needs to happen.... JMO

GO IU!

 

[Hoosierfan2017 20,329]

1 minute ago, 8bucks said:

I do not disagree.  I think the points that @Ngw7183 was making about whether donors are going to be willing to shell out big money for a buyout would likely come with strings attached to hiring someone who is more of a sure thing.  We have not done the sure thing hire before and like you described with one donor willing to contribute a lot of money if we could have hired BS last time, I think this is a similar point that NGW is making.  Sure he may be one of a few who think Woody should stay but the rest of his post makes a strong case for why some big money donors may become willing to act but only if we are able to land a sure thing.  

I would be surprised if a donor shelled out $12 million for a risky hire like Dusty May. If I was shelling out that kind of cash, I’d want to know that IU was going to hire a proven commodity. Imagine being the donor who shelled out $10 and then watched IU hire Mike Woodson lol. 

[Stuhoo 77,413]

So if this happens, I'm good with Cronin, Shrews, May, or Pearl (I guess).

Of those four:

• The surest thing resume: Cronin
• The biggest cojones/most volatile proven resume: Pearl
• The longest-term but (relatively) unproven solution: May
• My favorite all-around choice? Micah Shrewsbury.

Those are four incredible possibilities, and I'd be damn pleased with any of them.

[kottke 766]

26 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

I bolded the point that is notably fantastic. That, and the retention of his top eight players from last year with no NIL and a 2,900 seat arena?

Dusty May seems special to me.

That, and he seems like the most realistic option to me. Great coach, ties to IU (for those that care), knows Dolson, and possibly most importantly, to the university anyway (and boosters), he would be the cheapest option it seems. No buyout (vs. Pear's, Cronin's large buyouts) I would think would be huge after just having spent $15.5 million to get rid of Tom Allen.