Player decisions

[LamarCheeks]

13 minutes ago, HoosierFan1994 said:

I'll always predict it happened in year two. I think he kissed Romeo's a$$ and that didn't sit well with the team. 

Not sure Seth Greenberg always knows what he's talking about, but he said that if you have several one-and-dones, you're fine. But if you have one, it's gonna cause problems. I think there might be some credence to that. 

[HoosierFan1994]

I’m bored on twitter looking at player likes to see their attitude as that tells the story. Go to Lander’s first like and that is pretty telling. 

[JSHoosier]

Lander is one I hope stays, wasn't ready but potential is there.  With the right coach I think we could limit defections.

[Hoosierfan2017]

4 minutes ago, HoosierFan1994 said:

I’m bored on twitter looking at player likes to see their attitude as that tells the story. Go to Lander’s first like and that is pretty telling. 

Lol. Not shocked that he isn’t the biggest fan.

 

[OliviaPope40]

Players have to do what's best for them given the situation of things but what people shouldn't do at the end of the day is tweet at them saying they made the wrong decision when we may not know the full details of what went into their decision. 

[HoosierAloha]

I’m bored on twitter looking at player likes to see their attitude as that tells the story. Go to Lander’s first like and that is pretty telling. 

Uof6?


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[JHoosier914]

 

2021 Logan Duncomb - ‘Wait and see’


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[RaceToTheTop]

If Khristain isn’t able to view his freshman year objectively, I’m not sure a change of coach will matter for him.

[Golfman25]

2 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

It’s one of the oddest things I’ve seen. A total disconnect.  Lack of respect?  I’ve yet to figure it out.  Probably never will.  
 

I think it’s more that Archie forced his style on these guys and they begrudgingly tried to accomplish his demands assuming it would result in wins. As the losses piled up, the hatred for the systems deepened?  Or is it more of a interpersonal thing. 
 

They seemed to like Cliff, but everyone likes Cliff. 

I think this has a lot to do with it.  These kids aren't stupid.  They have played basketball since they could walk.  Most come from successful high school programs, not to mention AAU teams.  They know a little bit about basketball.  Archie comes in with his system, doesn't adapt and adjust, and kida has an offputting personnality (maybe), then thow in bad losses and crappy records it's a recepie for disaster.  

[IUfan_Charlie]

If Khristain isn’t able to view his freshman year objectively, I’m not sure a change of coach will matter for him.

This is where I’m at. I’m positive Archie promised him all sorts of things to get him to reclassify. He was absolutely desperate after whiffing on every guard he tried to recruit. At the same time, Lander was, by any metric, disappointing to say the least. If he was some 3 star recruit he would be written off by most people at this point. For our sake I hope he sticks around and can live up to his HS ranking but I’ve really never seen a 5 star guard underperform so severely.


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[Golfman25]

3 hours ago, IUfan_Charlie said:

This is where I’m at. I’m positive Archie promised him all sorts of things to get him to reclassify. He was absolutely desperate after whiffing on every guard he tried to recruit. At the same time, Lander was, by any metric, disappointing to say the least. If he was some 3 star recruit he would be written off by most people at this point. For our sake I hope he sticks around and can live up to his HS ranking but I’ve really never seen a 5 star guard underperform so severely.


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Lander was a senior in HS as a freshman.  When playing, he made freshman mistakes.  The problem with Archie, rather than letting him play thru those mistake, he was pulled at the first sign of trouble.  Maybe it’s different if we had a cupcake non-conference schedule to work with.  You need to take the bad with the good when playing freshman.  

[darB s'tI]

1 minute ago, Golfman25 said:

Lander was a senior in HS as a freshman.  When playing, he made freshman mistakes.  The problem with Archie, rather than letting him play thru those mistake, he was pulled at the first sign of trouble.  Maybe it’s different if we had a cupcake non-conference schedule to work with.  You need to take the bad with the good when playing freshman.  

I don't totally agree with this. I thought early/mid season pulling Lander too early was a problem, but he did get more playing time and showed regression. Some of Lander's shots and very, very poor passes didn't allow CAM to justify keeping him in. Tons of turnovers, poor defense and zero offensive threat. Playing through that doesn't really get us anywhere. We can blame CAM for all of this until the cows come home, but many of our problems are also rooted in players/decisions. A coach is in charge of schemes, strategy and motivation (amongst other things). Millers offensive schemes are horrific, strategy is good (but the players didn't execute well IMO) and motivation went from high to low throughout the longevity of the season. The players have to play to their abilities. In my opinion, it's worth arguing CAM didn't get the most out of his players but at the same time, most of our players underperformed greatly.

[Golfman25]

5 minutes ago, IU-DL said:

I don't totally agree with this. I thought early/mid season pulling Lander too early was a problem, but he did get more playing time and showed regression. Some of Lander's shots and very, very poor passes didn't allow CAM to justify keeping him in. Tons of turnovers, poor defense and zero offensive threat. Playing through that doesn't really get us anywhere. We can blame CAM for all of this until the cows come home, but many of our problems are also rooted in players/decisions. A coach is in charge of schemes, strategy and motivation (amongst other things). Millers offensive schemes are horrific, strategy is good (but the players didn't execute well IMO) and motivation went from high to low throughout the longevity of the season. The players have to play to their abilities. In my opinion, it's worth arguing CAM didn't get the most out of his players but at the same time, most of our players underperformed greatly.

We didn’t get anywhere by pulling him either.  

[Evariste Galois]

3 hours ago, IUfan_Charlie said:

...At the same time, Lander was, by any metric, disappointing to say the least. If he was some 3 star recruit he would be written off by most people at this point...

Personally, I think if Lander were a 3 star recruit we would be over-excited and hyping him up at this time.

The expectations would not have been insane and he clearly has great court vision and the ability to get to the rim (demonstrated in flashes). Like with Geronimo, we would all be projecting those flashes of brilliance...

[cappymo14]

Look at some of the comments below TJD’s sad face tweet.... Tell me what the goal is when you hit send on that? Listen to me, stop tweeting that crap at the players. I sometimes even wonder if we don’t deserve to be this down as a program. I sat and read countless post from people trying to justify why booing your own team off the floor was an effective vehicle for change. Ok then, I can deal with that, but where are you now? I swear to the lord above, if I don’t see you same people now go and fricken publicly eviscerate these dumbos for tweeting that crap to an All-B1G player that you claim to want back, I don’t know what to say.

 

 

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[Hoosierfan2017]

31 minutes ago, IU-DL said:

I don't totally agree with this. I thought early/mid season pulling Lander too early was a problem, but he did get more playing time and showed regression. Some of Lander's shots and very, very poor passes didn't allow CAM to justify keeping him in. Tons of turnovers, poor defense and zero offensive threat. Playing through that doesn't really get us anywhere. We can blame CAM for all of this until the cows come home, but many of our problems are also rooted in players/decisions. A coach is in charge of schemes, strategy and motivation (amongst other things). Millers offensive schemes are horrific, strategy is good (but the players didn't execute well IMO) and motivation went from high to low throughout the longevity of the season. The players have to play to their abilities. In my opinion, it's worth arguing CAM didn't get the most out of his players but at the same time, most of our players underperformed greatly.

I don't agree. Lander has more potential than any of the other guards on our team. He got better throughout the season, imo. He made a lot of mistakes but it wasn't like we had many other options at the guard position. There were a number of games where Phinisee was just giving us absolutely nothing. We were losing anyway so giving Lander more time wouldn't have hurt anything. Sometimes we were even better with him on the court. 

[Hardwood83]

There aren't any players I want to leave this team, but I do expect some attrition. The hire is way more important than any one player or even season. I certainly hope next year's roster can be salvaged and a competitive team is available, but not at the expense of getting THE guy. 

[Alford Bailey]

5 hours ago, IUfan_Charlie said:

This is where I’m at. I’m positive Archie promised him all sorts of things to get him to reclassify. He was absolutely desperate after whiffing on every guard he tried to recruit. At the same time, Lander was, by any metric, disappointing to say the least. If he was some 3 star recruit he would be written off by most people at this point. For our sake I hope he sticks around and can live up to his HS ranking but I’ve really never seen a 5 star guard underperform so severely.


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Disappointing to say the least. Archie needed him to be the point and it didnt happen.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

2 hours ago, Golfman25 said:

We didn’t get anywhere by pulling him either.  

Exactly. Our defense sucked no matter who was on the court. His speed, vision and wanting to push the ball was enough for me. Even as a young freshman, he looked to have a better feel than Phinisee and WAY more swagger. 

[RaceToTheTop]

15 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Exactly. Our defense sucked no matter who was on the court. His speed, vision and wanting to push the ball was enough for me. Even as a young freshman, he looked to have a better feel than Phinisee and WAY more swagger. 

Our defense was 38th on Pom.  Not great, but our defense was good enough to make the tournament.  Take Florida for example:  40th offensively, 37th defensively.  So if we were playing at the same level on offense as defense, you could chalk us up as a 7 seed.  Instead, our offense checked in at 64.  

In terms of 'swagger' and 'vision'.....unless that translates to actual points, I could care less about it.  "Swaggering" helped him hit 18 of 70 from the floor.  Vision helped him turn the ball over once every 10 minutes when our other subpar guards turned it over much less -- Phin once every 21 minutes, Durham once every 23 minutes.  Lander had an epically bad season.....there really isn't any way to describe it.  

But as they say, the backup quarterback is always the most popular guy on the team for fans.

He has a long way to go right now.  I do feel there is no way that the scouts were that far off on his ranking and I don't expect a repeat next year.  But let's not change history to act like he looked productive last year.