College Bball Thread

[Dave from Dayton]

53 minutes ago, Josh said:

I'm sorry, but this is an excuse.  I don't even believe it to be true.  I've heard rumors that he wasn't allowed to lose any players, but that's refutable by facts.  Firstly, he booted Grant Gelon.  Secondly, he could have released recruits from their LOI with no apr hit.  Instead, he pushed to keep them.  Sorry, but the story doesn't add up.

Even if Glass told him to keep the players so there wasn't an apr hit, we have to think about what that means.  The apr hit would have kept us out of the ncaa tournament.  Clearly Glass must have thought this was an ncaa team, and the fact that Miller couldn't get the team there would indicate that Miller was a big flop in his eyes instantly.  

The only thing I blame Glass for was hiring a terrible coach.  Everything else is on Archie.

The APR is just one of the issues that was there.  It seemed to exist.  I also do not know beyond a shadow of a doubt.  It is not refutable by facts that you present.  Those are somewhat circumstantial.  Plus, the released recruits do not hit the APR.  And you ignore the fact that if he had done that, late in the recruiting period, then the cupboard would have been even more depleted.

You ignore the injuries, you ignore the recruiting inside of the state issue.  You ignore the support to the staff that Dolson obviously is doing to supplement CMW.  That did not happen for Archie Miller's staff.

Not so much excuses as everything is not dependent solely on the coach.  The coach has to be put in the position to take advantage of the situations.  Glass didn't give Archie Miller a boost like Dolson is giving CMW.

But, clearly, Archie Miller didn't perform up to IU's standards. But IU is not on probation.  IU is in good shape APR wise.  IU's cupboard was not bare.  And the in-state recruiting is not broken like Crean left it.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Dave from Dayton

[Josh]

46 minutes ago, Dave from Dayton said:

The APR is just one of the issues that was there.  It seemed to exist.  I also do not know beyond a shadow of a doubt.  It is not refutable by facts that you present.  Those are somewhat circumstantial.  Plus, the released recruits do not hit the APR.  And you ignore the fact that if he had done that, late in the recruiting period, then the cupboard would have been even more depleted.

You ignore the injuries, you ignore the recruiting inside of the state issue.  You ignore the support to the staff that Dolson obviously is doing to supplement CMW.  That did not happen for Archie Miller's staff.

Not so much excuses as everything is not dependent solely on the coach.  The coach has to be put in the position to take advantage of the situations.  Glass didn't give Archie Miller a boost like Dolson is giving CMW.

But, clearly, Archie Miller didn't perform up to IU's standards. But IU is not on probation.  IU is in good shape APR wise.  IU's cupboard was not bare.  And the in-state recruiting is not broken like Crean left it.

I'm not ignoring anything.  I'm very cognizant of all the issues Archie had.  These were his issues that he either did not fix, would not fix, or broke himself.  He was a terrible coach.

All the rest is excuses.

[Honkyman]

Dave from Dayton said: "And the in-state recruiting is not broken like Crean left it."

_____________

"In-state recruiting is not broken..."?  IU did not receive a commitment from a single member of Indiana's 2021 high school class, considered to be the best in several years. The two best 2021 players--Trey Kaufman and Caleb Furst--are headed to Purdue. The in-state recruiting, if not broken, was in steep decline under Archie Miller as many players had realized that the program was a mess.

 

[reconmkd]

4 minutes ago, Honkyman said:

Dave from Dayton said: "And the in-state recruiting is not broken like Crean left it."

_____________

"In-state recruiting is not broken..."?  IU did not receive a commitment from a single member of Indiana's 2021 high school class, considered to be the best in several years. The two best 2021 players--Trey Kaufman and Caleb Furst--are headed to Purdue. The in-state recruiting, if not broken, was in steep decline under Archie Miller as many players had realized that the program was a mess.

 

Lander was 2021 class but reclassed. Not arguing just stating facts, I have no dog in this one.

[go iu bb]

1 hour ago, Honkyman said:

Dave from Dayton said: "And the in-state recruiting is not broken like Crean left it."

_____________

"In-state recruiting is not broken..."?  IU did not receive a commitment from a single member of Indiana's 2021 high school class, considered to be the best in several years. The two best 2021 players--Trey Kaufman and Caleb Furst--are headed to Purdue. The in-state recruiting, if not broken, was in steep decline under Archie Miller as many players had realized that the program was a mess.

 

Crean alienated many of the state's HS and AAU coaches. I think Dave was referring to that and not missing out on recruits because of a bad product on the floor. 

[hoosierbgh]

5 hours ago, brumdog45 said:

Not sure that a rule should be made that only helps out players who haven’t produced.  
 

Truth, in my opinion, is that for years we have treated athletes differently in terms of transferring than we have other students.  That’s wrong.  While it sucks to have a player you’ve invested time in leave, that’s life.  

I'm sure most other students would gladly accept the transfer restrictions if they were given scholarships and the tutors that athletes get. Athletes are treated differently because they are different, with greater benefits come greater requirements. 

[Dave from Dayton]

5 hours ago, Josh said:

I'm sorry, but this is an excuse.  I don't even believe it to be true.  I've heard rumors that he wasn't allowed to lose any players, but that's refutable by facts.  Firstly, he booted Grant Gelon.  Secondly, he could have released recruits from their LOI with no apr hit.  Instead, he pushed to keep them.  Sorry, but the story doesn't add up.

Even if Glass told him to keep the players so there wasn't an apr hit, we have to think about what that means.  The apr hit would have kept us out of the ncaa tournament.  Clearly Glass must have thought this was an ncaa team, and the fact that Miller couldn't get the team there would indicate that Miller was a big flop in his eyes instantly.  

The only thing I blame Glass for was hiring a terrible coach.  Everything else is on Archie.

Since you do not believe it to be true....here is an article that discusses the APR deterioration under Crean.  The 4 year average required by the NCAA is 930.  IU's was going down in Crean's last 4 years.  It was the 2nd lowest in the B1G at 938.  Crean's last year was 920. https://www.insidethehall.com/2018/05/23/iu-basketball-sees-multi-year-apr-score-fall-for-third-straight-year/

[Josh]

32 minutes ago, Dave from Dayton said:

Since you do not believe it to be true....here is an article that discusses the APR deterioration under Crean.  The 4 year average required by the NCAA is 930.  IU's was going down in Crean's last 4 years.  It was the 2nd lowest in the B1G at 938.  Crean's last year was 920. https://www.insidethehall.com/2018/05/23/iu-basketball-sees-multi-year-apr-score-fall-for-third-straight-year/

...and this gave Archie the historically bad results he had?  Sorry, that's an excuse.

[DChoosier]

34 minutes ago, Dave from Dayton said:

Since you do not believe it to be true....here is an article that discusses the APR deterioration under Crean.  The 4 year average required by the NCAA is 930.  IU's was going down in Crean's last 4 years.  It was the 2nd lowest in the B1G at 938.  Crean's last year was 920. https://www.insidethehall.com/2018/05/23/iu-basketball-sees-multi-year-apr-score-fall-for-third-straight-year/

It was going down but, as Josh stated, Archie still booted Gelon and he re-recruited the Crean recruits that had not enrolled (ie they would not have been an APR hit if they went elsewhere). I don’t know if Fred made him go after them but it seems odd since they did not impact the APR. 

And after the initial year let’s not forget the multiple years in which we needed shooting but he left open scholarships. It was an all-around bad tenure (with the exception that he seemed to land good kids). 

[Chris007]

1 minute ago, DChoosier said:

It was going down but, as Josh stated, Archie still booted Gelon and he re-recruited the Crean recruits that had not enrolled (ie they would not have been an APR hit if they went elsewhere). I don’t know if Fred made him go after them but it seems odd since they did not impact the APR. 

And after the initial year let’s not forget the multiple years in which we needed shooting but he left open scholarships. It was an all-around bad tenure (with the exception that he seemed to land good kids). 

I will say with all of this there is a reason Fred retired. It had to do with all of this. 

[Dave from Dayton]

14 minutes ago, Josh said:

...and this gave Archie the historically bad results he had?  Sorry, that's an excuse.

No.  Once again you cherry pick and ignore the whole discussion.  The above was a response to you saying that you did not believe that the APR was an issue.  I did not say that APR was why Archie failed.  I said there were many factors that contributed to it.  But, it was still his responsibility to win.

Your agenda is showing again.  

 

  I do agree that Archie had to go.  But he didn't fail relative to the APR like Crean was.  He didn't leave the cupboard bare like others have.   He just didn't win enough and had lost the team.  Very significant those are definitely.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Dave from Dayton

[Josh]

2 minutes ago, Dave from Dayton said:

No.  Once again you cherry pick and ignore the whole discussion.  The above was a response to you saying that you did not believe that the APR was an issue.  

Your agenda is showing again.

 

  I do agree that Archie had to go.  But he didn't fail relative to the APR like Crean was.  He didn't leave the cupboard bare like others have.   He just didn't win enough and had lost the team.  Very significant those are definitely.

This isn't cherry picking, this is a misunderstanding. 

I do know that Crean's apr was going downhill.  What I do not believe to be true is the claim that Glass made Archie keep all players due to APR.  It just doesn't make sense since he did cut a guy, and because he could have released all recruits without an apr hit.  

That's not an agenda.  I'm not ignoring anything. 

[DChoosier]

9 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I will say with all of this there is a reason Fred retired. It had to do with all of this. 

Did Fred make him keep scholarships open? If so, that’s crazy/egregious.

[Chris007]

1 minute ago, DChoosier said:

Did Fred make him keep scholarships open? If so, that’s crazy/egregious.

As I have said before and know to be true. The way the job was described to Archie and the way the job was after taking the job was two different things. I don't know the situation with Gelon but I do know that he was told to keep the three recruits Crean had, try not to have any transfers, and was told no in bringing in McKinley Wright. 

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan]

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[Brass Cannon]

3 minutes ago, woodenshoemanHoosierfan said:

 

 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 

 

Who could have guess this.  Besides all of Hoosier nation. 

[JSHoosier]

56 minutes ago, woodenshoemanHoosierfan said:

 

 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 

 

The Tom Crean experiment isn't going well.  I'm shocked I tell you, shocked.

[Josh]

1 hour ago, Chris007 said:

As I have said before and know to be true. The way the job was described to Archie and the way the job was after taking the job was two different things. I don't know the situation with Gelon but I do know that he was told to keep the three recruits Crean had, try not to have any transfers, and was told no in bringing in McKinley Wright. 

No disrespect intended here.  You've certainly had amazing info before.  I'll never forget how you said Romeo Langford would commit to IU on April 30th before he even set a commitment date.  I think it was another day before he even announced that he'd make a decision on April 30th.  Good stuff for sure.

You've also been wrong on info before (we all have).  Not saying you made stuff up, just that you received bad info.

I have a very hard time believing this one.  The facts just don't support it.  Why would he have to keep the recruits?  The reason given is apr...but that doesn't make sense since there would be no apr hit.  You've said he had to keep the roster, yet Gelon was run off.

I'm sorry, I just can't make sense of it.  It feels like an excuse since I can't find any reason in it.

[Chris007]

15 minutes ago, Josh said:

No disrespect intended here.  You've certainly had amazing info before.  I'll never forget how you said Romeo Langford would commit to IU on April 30th before he even set a commitment date.  I think it was another day before he even announced that he'd make a decision on April 30th.  Good stuff for sure.

You've also been wrong on info before (we all have).  Not saying you made stuff up, just that you received bad info.

I have a very hard time believing this one.  The facts just don't support it.  Why would he have to keep the recruits?  The reason given is apr...but that doesn't make sense since there would be no apr hit.  You've said he had to keep the roster, yet Gelon was run off.

I'm sorry, I just can't make sense of it.  It feels like an excuse since I can't find any reason in it.

I have no problem with what you're saying since you have said it since the first time I said it. I totally get it. It very well could be bad info, I just pass along what I hear or I'm told. I will also say the Archie hire I believe is the reason we don't have Fred Glass anymore. No disrespect took. 

I still haven't been able to sleep for giving you bad info that Brad was coming and it was a done deal. :-) I will never use those words again. 

[WayneFleekHoosier]

Regardless of what happened in year 1, he had 3 recruiting classes to make an identity and win. 
 

never happened. I do think the admin has been a hindrance to our success, I just don’t know exactly how, besides maybe not allowing a gray area.