They “Retired” Coach Woodson Thread

[str8baller]

5 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Unless:

1) The rest of this season completely drops off of a cliff, or

2) Woody decides he's had enough.

I don’t know enough about the internal workings of IU to speak to 1. My impression from the outside is that IU is a place where you get a longer leash and the chance to prove one bad season was a fluke.   
 

As to 2), my preferred scenario would be going on a little run that gets us in the tourney. From there Woody decides he’s ready to retire and hand the reigns to somebody else. Then the story becomes not that he was struggling and pushed out, but that he was the alum who came back to right the ship when we were struggling.  
 

That would unequivocally be the best thing for the program, imo, even if it is unlikely. 

[Trish]

2 hours ago, JSHoosier said:

I think maybe Woodson didn't realize just how much different college is from NBA regarding time commitment. With recruiting etc there's not much of an offseason in college.

There is no off season. You recruit every single day unless there’s a recruiting shutdown like on the women’s side. Woodson is too stubborn to realize he’s not fit for the job at this age .

[coonhounds]

Unless:
1) The rest of this season completely drops off of a cliff, or
2) Woody decides he's had enough.

I hate to say it but my gut says we fall off a cliff. Me and my daughter had fun watching ohio st game and she was so excited when we came back to win. I got excited around when gallo hit a 3 to cut it to like 6 or 7 lol. After the feel good tines I told her we absolutely got lucky and we should never be that far behind and expect to win! Reality is we played hard most of the second half. We actually hit some big shots. But ohio st is a bad team and did what bad teams do. Find a way to lose. Nothing to get me to good of feelings moving forward as Woodson still has alot to learn

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[Alford Bailey]

6 hours ago, ISP said:

Counter argument..

Woody had TJD as a junior and senior while Archie had him as a freshman and sophomore. 

Year 3 of Woody has been worse than any season in the past 20+ years if you remove year 1 and 2 of Crean's tenure. 

Selective memory. Games left to play but Crean and Archie have been worse even if you don’t count Creans first two seasons.

[Josh]

6 hours ago, ISP said:

Counter argument..

Woody had TJD as a junior and senior while Archie had him as a freshman and sophomore. 

Year 3 of Woody has been worse than any season in the past 20+ years if you remove year 1 and 2 of Crean's tenure. 

Ehhhhh....Archie got blown out at home by IPFW and ISU.  Lost 12 out of 13 games.  This is bad, but it ain't that bad.

[southernindianahoosier2]

6 hours ago, Josh said:

Ehhhhh....Archie got blown out at home by IPFW and ISU.  Lost 12 out of 13 games.  This is bad, but it ain't that bad.

I just checked… how was he still given 2 years after that!!??? 

[Josh]

3 hours ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

I just checked… how was he still given 2 years after that!!??? 

We have some really slow learners within the program

[Kentuckysucks]

15 hours ago, Trish said:

There is no off season. You recruit every single day unless there’s a recruiting shutdown like on the women’s side. Woodson is too stubborn to realize he’s not fit for the job at this age .

I think he knows he's in way over his head and doesn't want the job anymore.  The issue is the $12M that he is owed.  He's not leaving a dime on the table.  

[TheWatShot]

8 hours ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

I just checked… how was he still given 2 years after that!!??? 

Because our program operates under the illusion that if you don't give a coach at least four years to fail, you'll look like a bunch of mean, ungrateful bastards and nobody will want anything to do with you anymore. So, better to let the failing coach continue to fail and say "at least we tried" then have the sense to realize something isn't working and pull the plug. 

 

I blame the total reset we did after Sampson. It allowed Crean to do nothing but lose for 3 years, then along came Cody Zeller and suddenly those three years got swept under the rug. Our fanbase is full of lemmings who go around parroting "have to give a coach 4 years" because they remember that era. The administration heavily relies on these fans to watch their backs, because they've very self-conscious about optics and what everyone else thinks of them. So, we hire bad coaches and keep them even when it's obvious they don't have it.

 

We have an administration that wants to believe our program is elite, but doesn't want to do what it takes to be elite, so we get coaches who want to win, but don't want to put in the work it takes to win. 

[Hornsby]

I think he knows he's in way over his head and doesn't want the job anymore.  The issue is the $12M that he is owed.  He's not leaving a dime on the table.  

The fact they would give a contact like that to a guy nobody else wanted is stunning. If he really wanted this job that bad they could of paid him half what they did

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[Hornsby]

Because our program operates under the illusion that if you don't give a coach at least four years to fail, you'll look like a bunch of mean, ungrateful bastards and nobody will want anything to do with you anymore. So, better to let the failing coach continue to fail and say "at least we tried" then have the sense to realize something isn't working and pull the plug. 

 

I blame the total reset we did after Sampson. It allowed Crean to do nothing but lose for 3 years, then along came Cody Zeller and suddenly those three years got swept under the rug. Our fanbase is full of lemmings who go around parroting "have to give a coach 4 years" because they remember that era. The administration heavily relies on these fans to watch their backs, because they've very self-conscious about optics and what everyone else thinks of them. So, we hire bad coaches and keep them even when it's obvious they don't have it.

 

We have an administration that wants to believe our program is elite, but doesn't want to do what it takes to be elite, so we get coaches who want to win, but don't want to put in the work it takes to win. 

Correct I see those talking points all over twitter. The buyout is too big. You have to give them four years. Nobody will want to come here. It took coach k three years to get rolling. What is purdue had fired Painter after three years. Doesn't matter if it's obvious it's not working you must hang onto them for four years minimum.

 

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[AKHoosier]

4 minutes ago, Hornsby said:

The fact they would give a contact like that to a guy nobody else wanted is stunning. If he really wanted this job that bad they could of paid him half what they did

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Yeah I don't see why his buyout was anything more than $1,000,000. Even that is too much.

Who were we afraid was going to come after him given the chance he had incredible success early on?

[AZ Hoosier]

12 minutes ago, Hornsby said:

The fact they would give a contact like that to a guy nobody else wanted is stunning. If he really wanted this job that bad they could of paid him half what they did

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And more than likely gotten the same results...

[Kentuckysucks]

32 minutes ago, Hornsby said:

The fact they would give a contact like that to a guy nobody else wanted is stunning. If he really wanted this job that bad they could of paid him half what they did

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I remember when Davis was fired and Herbert insisted on paying Davis a few million more than we were contractually obligated to pay him.  Have you ever heard of another athletic department doing that for a coach they were firing?  These people aren't the brightest.

[Hornsby]

I remember when Davis was fired and Herbert insisted on paying Davis a few million more than we were contractually obligated to pay him.  Have you ever heard of another athletic department doing that for a coach they were firing?  These people aren't the brightest.

That kills the whole nobody would want to come here argument. Cause even if you failed you get rewarded big-time financially

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[go iu bb]

The coaches that would be scared off by the firing of coaches who don't win at IU are the coaches who don't believe they can win at IU. I'm not sure we'd want them anyways.

[Mopladysman]

The four year argument makes sense if you've got a couple of good recruiting classes coming in for year four and five.  Weve got one guy.  

[Chris007]

11 minutes ago, Mopladysman said:

The four year argument makes sense if you've got a couple of good recruiting classes coming in for year four and five.  Weve got one guy.  

So you're not allowed to recruit in the spring? Dang it I hadn't heard that the NCAA changed the rules. Feel bad for all of those seniors who haven't picked a school yet. DWS

[ISP]

18 hours ago, Alford Bailey said:

Selective memory. Games left to play but Crean and Archie have been worse even if you don’t count Creans first two seasons.

 

17 hours ago, Josh said:

Ehhhhh....Archie got blown out at home by IPFW and ISU.  Lost 12 out of 13 games.  This is bad, but it ain't that bad.

 

This season we are rated lower (96) on KenPom than any of Archie's seasons (71, 52, 34, 50) and all but Crean's first 2 seasons (209, 138, 82, 9, 3,63, 48, 11, 44).

We could win out the rest of our regular season games and win game 1 of the B1G tourney and are still projected to be the #8 team left out. 

I think  many of us are underestimating how bad this season is because we scrapped by a couple come from behind close wins against really bad teams in the non-conference. 

Edited February 9, 2024 by ISP

[southernindianahoosier2]

Unfortunately I believe Woodson will fall victim to Fred Glass' doing. What I mean by that, and insiders correct me if I'm wrong... Indiana post Sampson and under Glass, had no structure or foundation in place to swap coaches. When Crean left it was a rebuild, when archie left it was a rebuild.... Its obvious that Glass left some foundational things to be desired and that a coach is going to have to take total control of the program and fix way more than what would be needed at a conventional P5 job. I'm not sure Woodson is passionate about making it "His" program, and the foundation isn't strong enough for what he's attempting to do. Remember this is the program Fred Built over 10 years.

I'm just saying I think its unfair to blame all of this on Woodson, at least 20-30% should be shouldered on Fred Glass and his lack of program controls