Point Guard Play: 2021-22

[Uspshoosier 49,141]

So much discussion about IU's point guard play as the key to the season.

Rather than build it into threads designed for other topics, let's discuss here.

https://www.insidethehall.com/2021/12/20/xavier-johnson-and-the-fire-from-within/

[Stuhoo 84,523]

3 hours ago, Uspshoosier said:

https://www.insidethehall.com/2021/12/20/xavier-johnson-and-the-fire-from-within/

 

Xavier Johnson is such an easy guy to root for.

The payoff? He is a really good kid from a great family who unlike many, has enough talent to reach the finish line.

 

[IUc2016 7,121]

Point guard play has held this program back since Yogi left. This year is no different, and X is not the answer.

HOWEVER, he and rob are who we have and seem to be great kids so I will root for them no matter what. They are maddening to watch at times. X taking 9 threes on Saturday pissed me off as it did most, but to any "fan" who booed X and then cheered when he left the game... pathetic. 

[HoosierHoopster 7,467]

The more we play X and Rob together, the better. They compliment each other well, and Rob had a nice game against ND.

[Alford Bailey 12,719]

X is better than anyone we’ve had at point since Yogi which is not saying much. 

[IUFAN1976 4,269]

18 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

The more we play X and Rob together, the better. They compliment each other well, and Rob had a nice game against ND.

But they both have to knock down 3’s consistently for that to happen.

[HoosierHoopster 7,467]

1 minute ago, IUFAN1976 said:

But they both have to knock down 3’s consistently for that to happen.

Its their combined play as points, not as scorers.  They were the most efficient / productive unit in the last game, hands down. It's setting up the team, not being the primary outside shooters.

[pumpfake 4,057]

7 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Its their combined play as points, not as scorers.  They were the most efficient / productive unit in the last game, hands down. It's setting up the team, not being the primary outside shooters.

If they're on the floor with Race & Trayce and not shooting/making 3's, you're putting it all on 1 other player (Miller or Parker).  I agree that the PG position doesn't have to be the prime source for outside shooting, but it does have to contribute.

[Stuhoo 84,523]

 

Don't know if y'all have noticed, but Rob Phinisee has been much more decisive and pro-active with the ball over the past few games. To me it seems that Woody's insistence has started to positively effect his mindset on offense.

However; Looking for some help from our bball on-court experts; Demo, BGleas, and others:

Rob Phinisee's jump shot form has always looked pretty solid to me, but the shooting percentages over a large sample have never been good enough.

Am I missing some form flaw that is uncorrected and dragging him so low?

 

[HoosierHoopster 7,467]

35 minutes ago, pumpfake said:

If they're on the floor with Race & Trayce and not shooting/making 3's, you're putting it all on 1 other player (Miller or Parker).  I agree that the PG position doesn't have to be the prime source for outside shooting, but it does have to contribute.

Oh sure, I agree -- but, as the line-up efficiency comparisons that have been posted previously reflect, Rob and X together are generally (with the other 3 players) the most efficient and productive lineups. The ball moves better, the floor opens up more, and we score better.

That doesn't mean they don't or shouldn't be taking shots and hitting them, we can't have X taking 9 3's and hitting only 2 of them (which was an extreme outlier from his other games), and hopefully Rob will start hitting better again, but neither should be a primary outside shooter.

[HoosierHoopster 7,467]

20 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

Don't know if y'all have noticed, but Rob Phinisee has been much more decisive and pro-active with the ball over the past few games. To me it seems that Woody's insistence has started to positively effect his mindset on offense.

However; Looking for some help from our bball on-court experts; Demo, BGleas, and others:

Rob Phinisee's jump shot form has always looked pretty solid to me, but the shooting percentages over a large sample have never been good enough.

Am I missing some form flaw that is uncorrected and dragging him so low?

 

Honestly think it's game confidence. Remember when CAM called Rob (over the summer) one the 3 best outside shooters on the team (with Al and Hunter)? His form is good, he has shown good outside shooting, but with all those injuries/head knocks and CAM's negative impact on outside shooting and point guard freedom, I think it's just screwed him up.

He's absolutely playing better the past few games and had a strong game, regardless how one reads his stat line on shooting, against ND. He was the catalyst that got us back on track when we fell behind early and ND was controlling the tempo and in danger of making it a bad game for us. And fwiw he hit a couple at big, key moments in the game.

[Hovadipo 58,802]

26 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

Don't know if y'all have noticed, but Rob Phinisee has been much more decisive and pro-active with the ball over the past few games. To me it seems that Woody's insistence has started to positively effect his mindset on offense.

However; Looking for some help from our bball on-court experts; Demo, BGleas, and others:

Rob Phinisee's jump shot form has always looked pretty solid to me, but the shooting percentages over a large sample have never been good enough.

Am I missing some form flaw that is uncorrected and dragging him so low?

 

I've noticed that a large amount of Rob's misses are rim-outs. I don't know if that helps diagnose the issue a little more or if it's a coincidence, but it's gotta drive him nuts at the very least.

[go iu bb 7,382]

4 minutes ago, Hovadipo said:

I've noticed that a large amount of Rob's misses are rim-outs. I don't know if that helps diagnose the issue a little more or if it's a coincidence, but it's gotta drive him nuts at the very least.

I've noticed that, as well. There was one shot against ND in particular that made me realize this. It was a mid-range shot and the ball was 1/2 way through the basket then it popped out. That has to be frustrating.

[RaceToTheTop 27,788]

2 hours ago, HoosierHoopster said:

The more we play X and Rob together, the better. They compliment each other well, and Rob had a nice game against ND.

That sounds s something I’ve noticed as well.  Don’t know the numbers, but think we’ve played better with both on the floor instead of one.  Seems counter to what you think would occur.

[Stuhoo 84,523]

3 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

That sounds s something I’ve noticed as well.  Don’t know the numbers, but think we’ve played better with both on the floor instead of one.  Seems counter to what you think would occur.

Defense wins.

Our best defensive lineup includes both Rob and X.

 

[BGleas 8,100]

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

 

Don't know if y'all have noticed, but Rob Phinisee has been much more decisive and pro-active with the ball over the past few games. To me it seems that Woody's insistence has started to positively effect his mindset on offense.

However; Looking for some help from our bball on-court experts; Demo, BGleas, and others:

Rob Phinisee's jump shot form has always looked pretty solid to me, but the shooting percentages over a large sample have never been good enough.

Am I missing some form flaw that is uncorrected and dragging him so low?

 

I don't have any great insight here, other then the old Parcells line, "you are what your record says you are". 

Phinisee is in year 4 and has proven over that time that he is not a good shooter. He's a below 36% shooter overall and a below 25% shooter from 3. That is really bad. 

Can he turn it around the back half of his senior year here? Sure he can. But, I wouldn't expect it. We've been playing this "he just needs confidence game with him for 3 years. 

[Demo 21,360]

2 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

 

Don't know if y'all have noticed, but Rob Phinisee has been much more decisive and pro-active with the ball over the past few games. To me it seems that Woody's insistence has started to positively effect his mindset on offense.

However; Looking for some help from our bball on-court experts; Demo, BGleas, and others:

Rob Phinisee's jump shot form has always looked pretty solid to me, but the shooting percentages over a large sample have never been good enough.

Am I missing some form flaw that is uncorrected and dragging him so low?

 

Hova mentioned his rim outs above. He’s right about that. He’s got a couple of things, at least from what I can see. His footwork isn’t consistent. Sometimes he’s almost completely squared up and other times he’s got a lead right foot and a little bit of left drift. Either would be fine if he was just doing one or the other. He then has minimal wrist snap on release, so he doesn’t get a lot of backspin. The footwork creates right/left misses plus hard contact from lack of backspin equals rim outs. Good shooters miss long/short, not right/left. I don’t remember Stewart missing a clean look off line all year. 

[kreigh8 2,111]

3 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

 

Don't know if y'all have noticed, but Rob Phinisee has been much more decisive and pro-active with the ball over the past few games. To me it seems that Woody's insistence has started to positively effect his mindset on offense.

However; Looking for some help from our bball on-court experts; Demo, BGleas, and others:

Rob Phinisee's jump shot form has always looked pretty solid to me, but the shooting percentages over a large sample have never been good enough.

Am I missing some form flaw that is uncorrected and dragging him so low?

 

I’ve constantly noticed there’s side spin on Rob’s shots. I can only assume that plays a part with all his rim outs

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,994]

1 minute ago, kreigh8 said:

I’ve constantly noticed there’s side spin on Rob’s shots. I can only assume that plays a part with all his rim outs

Thats his shooting form problem. What happens up top(where you shoot from, wrsit snap, follow through etc) is the most important. You can really do whatever you want with your legs as long as you're consistent on what's going on in the release. Problem for him seems to be his hand placement on the ball or maybe it's spinning off his pinky and ring finger to get that side spin. If he'd let it come off his middle and pointer finger more he'd probably be better off. From his legs and up to when the ball is by his head, everything seems fine for the most part. But something is happening after that that's inconsistent. 

[Chris007 51,770]

I wouldn't be surprised if we are one PG short for the rest of the season. Lots of rumors from southern Indiana that someone is leaving the program.