Archie vs Woodson (recruiting so far after 7ish months)

[Southside]

Some of the chat earlier this week peaked my curiosity about recruiting comps between CAM and CMW.

I'm sure I missed something, so please add to fill in any gaps.

And to think some thought Woody would be bad for recruiting?

• High level comparison
  • First 7 months
    • CAM - 0x top 50, 1x top 100, 5x 150
    • CMW - 2x top 50, 4x top 100, 3 or 4x incoming transfers (depending on how you view Race)
      • every player (true HS player) committed has been top 100
  • Career (IU)
    • CAM 
      • 1x top 10
      • 3x top 50
      • 5x top 100
      • Highest rated #7
    • CMW
      • 0x top 10
      • 2x top 50
      • 4x top 100
      • Highest rated #20

 

• 2017 class previously committed prior to CAM hire
  • 10-26-15 Al Durham commits 
  • 10-10-16 Clifton Moore commits
  • 11-9-16 Justin Smith commits 

 

• Archie Miller Hired 3-27-2017
  • 2017 class
    • 7-16-17 Race Thomson commits 0.921 (134)
  • 2018 class
    • 07-17-17 Jerome Hunter commits 0.9799 (59)
    • 07-17-17 Damezi Anderson commits 0.9383 (124)
    • 08-19-17 Rob Phinisee commits 0.9358 (135)
    • 09-11-17 Jake Forrester commits 0.9291 (147)
    • 04-13-18 Romeo Langford commits 0.9984 (7)
  • 2019 class
    • 9-6-18 Armaan Franklin commits 0.9257 (151)
    • 11-30-18 Jackson Davis commits 0.9890 (30)
  • 2020 class
    • 7-26-19 Trey Galloway commits 0.9230 (157)
    • 8-9-19 Anthony Leal commits 0.9233 (156)
    • 9-12-19 Jordan Geronimo commits 0.9611 (105)
    • 2-25-20 Khristian Lander commits 0.9910 (27)
  • 2021 class
    • 4-7-20 Logan Duncomb commits 0.9721 (72)
  • 2022 class 
    • 2-7-21 CJ Gunn commits 0.9256 (151)

--------------------------------------------------

• 1-14-21 Parker Stewart transfers to IU 0.8646 (273)

--------------------------------------------------

• Mike Woodson Hired 3-28-2021
  • 4-7-21 Xavier Johnson transfers 0.8849 (232)
  • 4-8-21 Race Thompson recommits to IU after entering TP 3-24-21
  • 4-17-21 Michael Durr transfers 0.8723 (300)
  • 4-20-21 Miller Kopp transfers 0.9449 (115)
• 2021 class 
  • 4-19-21 Tamar Bates commits 0.9893 (30)
• 2022 class
  • 7-23-21 Kaleb Banks commits 0.9626 (82)
  • 8-24-21 Hood Schifino commits 0.9918 (20)
• 2023 class
  • 10-22-21 Jakai Newton commits 0.9683 (67)
     

[Hoosierfan2017]

The numbers are important but what’s more important to me is the location. Woody is recruiting at a high level and he hasn’t landed a single Indiana kid yet. I like that a lot. Too many coaches want kids from Indiana for us to rely heavily on them. Talent is everywhere and this staff realizes that. 

[Southside]

56 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

The numbers are important but what’s more important to me is the location. Woody is recruiting at a high level and he hasn’t landed a single Indiana kid yet. I like that a lot. Too many coaches want kids from Indiana for us to rely heavily on them. Talent is everywhere and this staff realizes that. 

Yup. But I still want the IN kids.

I think once we improve, the IN kids will want to come. 

So first things first.

[Hoosierfan2017]

1 minute ago, Southside said:

Yup. But I still want the IN kids.

I think once we improve, the IN kids will want to come. 

So first things first.

Oh yeah I don’t want us to abandon Indiana recruits or anything. I’m just glad it’s not Indiana or bust like it seemed to be with Archie. ‘Locking down the state’ won’t ever actually happen so we need broader horizons. 

[Southside]

16 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Oh yeah I don’t want us to abandon Indiana recruits or anything. I’m just glad it’s not Indiana or bust like it seemed to be with Archie. ‘Locking down the state’ won’t ever actually happen so we need broader horizons. 

I just don't think Archie was good outside of IN... 

I still think it's possible to lock down the state. We just have to return to glory. Beat PU and ND for a few straight years, and start going to Sweet 16s, and the IN kids will think corn is cool again.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

Oh yeah I don’t want us to abandon Indiana recruits or anything. I’m just glad it’s not Indiana or bust like it seemed to be with Archie. ‘Locking down the state’ won’t ever actually happen so we need broader horizons. 

Missing Furst and Kaufman while repeatedly sucking and having half of the team or more dislike you (Archie) and your style was the final straw.

 

LOL

 

 

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[WayneFleekHoosier]

Missing Furst and Kaufman while repeatedly sucking and having half of the team or more dislike you (Archie) and your style was the final straw.
 
LOL
 
 
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Bring in low end 4 stars , high end 3 stars then being shocked we perform like a 3 star school in a 4/5 star conference is Ultimate Archie….. Cuz he has the best systems, ya know?!?


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[Southside]

2 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Bring in low end 4 stars , high end 3 stars then being shocked we perform like a 3 star school in a 4/5 star conference is Ultimate Archie….. Cuz he has the best systems, ya know?!?


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I think he had enough talent to win more games than he did, so really don't think recruiting was his biggest problem.

 

[Hoosierfan2017]

12 minutes ago, Southside said:

I just don't think Archie was good outside of IN... 

I still think it's possible to lock down the state. We just have to return to glory. Beat PU and ND for a few straight years, and start going to Sweet 16s, and the IN kids will think corn is cool again.

I definitely think we can get our fair share of in-state kids. Jeremy Fears would be a good start. I just think that with schools like OSU, MSU, and especially Michigan it’ll be hard to really lock down the state. Howard’s going to be a force for a long time if he stays at Michigan, imo. And then the big national teams as well. But who knows what happens with NIL. I’m just glad that it looks like we’ll have the ability to supplement with talented kids from other regions. Lots of athletic kids in the south and our staff has been doing work down there. 

[WayneFleekHoosier]

I think he had enough talent to win more games than he did, so really don't think recruiting was his biggest problem.
 

I guess. His offensive systems were terrible. His teams mostly played hard, sans Justin Smith. He had several issues at Indiana but if he was getting 2-3 TJDs per class things would have looked different. Easiest way to win, recruit stars and give them a system to flourish. Don’t have to X/O everyone to death.

Painter is a coach who continues to impress me. Mostly gets more with less. Knows his style. Archie in his dreams is Matt Painter.


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[Class of '66 Old Fart]

Locking down the state is a pretty nebulus phrase.  Is it a roster with 10 Indiana kids; 6; 4; or is 2 enough if year in and year out they are the top 2 talents in the state?  The General recruited an awful lot of non-Indiana kids and we hung banners.  I certainly don't advocate ignoring our own kids but focusing solely on Indiana kids won't get the job done.  

[Southside]

2 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I definitely think we can get our fair share of in-state kids. Jeremy Fears would be a good start. I just think that with schools like OSU, MSU, and especially Michigan it’ll be hard to really lock down the state. Howard’s going to be a force for a long time if he stays at Michigan, imo. And then the big national teams as well. But who knows what happens with NIL. I’m just glad that it looks like we’ll have the ability to supplement with talented kids from other regions. Lots of athletic kids in the south and our staff has been doing work down there. 

Honestly if we perform better, I'm not afraid of OSU/MSU/UM or any other team poaching.

If we can just start winning again, and owning PU and ND, IU will become "cool" again for in state kids. The last several years, we've been very very not cool..... 

I agree on Fears. I think in general, we need to hit La Lumiere hard. Not that they're exactly Indiana kids, but lots of talent. I'd take Booker from Cathedral too. 

For me, I don't care what the record is so long as we make the dance, beat ND 12-18, and PU on 01-20... We don't have to go far in the dance, just make it, and stop PU from beating us 10 times in a row. 

And I think it's very possible that we're between 15-3 and 18-0, and ranked when we play PU.... 

[Southside]

18 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I guess. His offensive systems were terrible. His teams mostly played hard, sans Justin Smith. He had several issues at Indiana but if he was getting 2-3 TJDs per class things would have looked different. Easiest way to win, recruit stars and give them a system to flourish. Don’t have to X/O everyone to death.

Painter is a coach who continues to impress me. Mostly gets more with less. Knows his style. Archie in his dreams is Matt Painter.


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Getting 2-3 TJDs (he was top 30 player) every cycle just isn't reality for all but a handful of teams. UK, Duke, UNC, maybe Memphis... That's about it these days. Archie was never going to do that. 

System was a big issue IMO. And Archie just wasn't fun or inspiring. 

12 minutes ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

Locking down the state is a pretty nebulus phrase.  Is it a roster with 10 Indiana kids; 6; 4; or is 2 enough if year in and year out they are the top 2 talents in the state?  The General recruited an awful lot of non-Indiana kids and we hung banners.  I certainly don't advocate ignoring our own kids but focusing solely on Indiana kids won't get the job done.  

I don't think it's very nebulous at all. To me it's always meant you take what you want. Not that you have to populate your roster with a bunch of IN kids. If there's a top 20ish kind of guy, you win that fight. And you never lose to a recruiting battle to PU or ND... 

[WayneFleekHoosier]

I don't think it's very nebulous at all. To me it's always meant you take what you want. Not that you have to populate your roster with a bunch of IN kids. If there's a top 20ish kind of guy, you win that fight. And you never lose to a recruiting battle to PU or ND... 

Yeah, it was all of it. I stated early with the hire, if he could be a Sean Miller recruiter he’d have Sean Miller results. He wasn’t good enough on any level, but we played like TJD and the Supporters because we’ve been TJD and the Supporters.


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[Honkyman]

Woodson has started off well in recruiting; Archie started off well. Recruiting drops off when team performance on the court fails to meet expectations. Woodson has to win for IU's recruiting to continue at the current level.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

37 minutes ago, Honkyman said:

Woodson has started off well in recruiting; Archie started off well. Recruiting drops off when team performance on the court fails to meet expectations. Woodson has to win for IU's recruiting to continue at the current level.

Very true!

[Rico]

1 hour ago, Honkyman said:

Woodson has started off well in recruiting; Archie started off well. Recruiting drops off when team performance on the court fails to meet expectations. Woodson has to win for IU's recruiting to continue at the current level.

Failure on the court has got us in the position we are in.  Winning cures all ills.

[IU Scott]

17 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I definitely think we can get our fair share of in-state kids. Jeremy Fears would be a good start. I just think that with schools like OSU, MSU, and especially Michigan it’ll be hard to really lock down the state. Howard’s going to be a force for a long time if he stays at Michigan, imo. And then the big national teams as well. But who knows what happens with NIL. I’m just glad that it looks like we’ll have the ability to supplement with talented kids from other regions. Lots of athletic kids in the south and our staff has been doing work down there. 

I wouldn't count Fears as an in state recruit since he is from Illinois.

[DChoosier]

17 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I guess. His offensive systems were terrible. His teams mostly played hard, sans Justin Smith. He had several issues at Indiana but if he was getting 2-3 TJDs per class things would have looked different. Easiest way to win, recruit stars and give them a system to flourish. Don’t have to X/O everyone to death.

Painter is a coach who continues to impress me. Mostly gets more with less. Knows his style. Archie in his dreams is Matt Painter.


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I agree with most of the post except the statement that  “his teams mostly played hard”. The lack of having teams that consistently played hard was one of the most surprising/disappointing aspect of the Archie era. The Knight returns game, the tourney play-in against OSU, games during the 12/13 streak, etc etc etc. Poor effort. His work hard, lunch pail “brand” was an illusion.

[DChoosier]

I agree with getting the cream of the crop in Indiana because the state produces top talent in most years and it is probably good for the program/state/culture to have some in-state guys.

That being said I’m very happy Woody is having out of state success. Our last banner was in 1987. Only 4 IU players scored in the championship  game (hard to believe) and they were from Indiana, Louisiana, California and Illinois (ie Alford was the only Indiana guy to score).