Archie vs Woodson (recruiting so far after 7ish months)

[Rico]

At the end of the day, whether a native Hoosier or not, I want the most talented players that want to don the candy stripes.

[ap2345]

15 hours ago, Rico said:

At the end of the day, whether a native Hoosier or not, I want the most talented players that want to don the candy stripes.

Correct but it is important to get the high level in state guys that are worth targeting. Right now they already have Gunn in 2022, Booker is a key target for 2023 and that class isn’t overly deep, and 2024 isn’t a great class either so landing out of state kids is essential for the next couple years. Then IU needs to have success to set them up to try and land Haralson and Sisley in 2025.

[str8baller]

7 minutes ago, ap2345 said:

Correct but it is important to get the high level in state guys that are worth targeting. Right now they already have Gunn in 2022, Booker is a key target for 2023 and that class isn’t overly deep, and 2024 isn’t a great class either so landing out of state kids is essential for the next couple years. Then IU needs to have success to set them up to try and land Haralson and Sisley in 2025.

You need high ranking kids, period. Where they come from is largely irrelevant. The state of Indiana is typically filled with talent and should be the easiest, lowest hanging fruit on the recruiting tree. But it really makes no difference if your picking off 5* (so long as you get them somewhere) or are lining out your rotation with solid guys from Indiana so long as you are keeping the option open and are not pissing off the coaches in the state. 

[American HoosierX]

18 hours ago, DChoosier said:

I agree with getting the cream of the crop in Indiana because the state produces top talent in most years and it is probably good for the program/state/culture to have some in-state guys.

That being said I’m very happy Woody is having out of state success. Our last banner was in 1987. Only 4 IU players scored in the championship  game (hard to believe) and they were from Indiana, Louisiana, California and Illinois (ie Alford was the only Indiana guy to score).

Wow that’s crazy, I had to look up the box score to confirm.

[Rico]

1 hour ago, str8baller said:

You need high ranking kids, period. Where they come from is largely irrelevant. The state of Indiana is typically filled with talent and should be the easiest, lowest hanging fruit on the recruiting tree. But it really makes no difference if your picking off 5* (so long as you get them somewhere) or are lining out your rotation with solid guys from Indiana so long as you are keeping the option open and are not pissing off the coaches in the state. 

I trust Woody to pick the fruit we need.  And the "tree" it comes from as well.  Nice post.

 

[lillurk]

On 10/23/2021 at 8:39 PM, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Yeah, it was all of it. I stated early with the hire, if he could be a Sean Miller recruiter he’d have Sean Miller results. He wasn’t good enough on any level, but we played like TJD and the Supporters because we’ve been TJD and the Supporters.


Sent from my iPad using BtownBanners mobile app

I had a similar perspective re: Sean. And Sean had enviable results at Arizona for quite awhile.

One thing I find interesting about Sean’s recruiting/development at Arizona: a looooooot of “can’t miss” level dudes went there 2009-2020 and drastically underperformed their rating.

Count how many top ten or top 25 or whatever guys on this list didn’t play up to the ranking.

There are some hits, of course. But I count four top ten players from the S. Miller tenure listed there who were fine college players but nowhere near top ten in performance either at AZ or later in the league: Johnson, Tarc, Mannion, Jerrett.

I have a theory but this post is already long.

Anyway, this is only loosely related to the topic, but if I wanted to hire a coach to develop players I’d rule out both Millers.

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, HoosierX said:

Wow that’s crazy, I had to look up the box score to confirm.

Back then RMK did not sub a lot and usually just for foul troubles.

[Rico]

3 hours ago, lillurk said:

I had a similar perspective re: Sean. And Sean had enviable results at Arizona for quite awhile.

One thing I find interesting about Sean’s recruiting/development at Arizona: a looooooot of “can’t miss” level dudes went there 2009-2020 and drastically underperformed their rating.

Count how many top ten or top 25 or whatever guys on this list didn’t play up to the ranking.

There are some hits, of course. But I count four top ten players from the S. Miller tenure listed there who were fine college players but nowhere near top ten in performance either at AZ or later in the league: Johnson, Tarc, Mannion, Jerrett.

I have a theory but this post is already long.

Anyway, this is only loosely related to the topic, but if I wanted to hire a coach to develop players I’d rule out both Millers.

What's your theory?  

[lillurk]

1 hour ago, Rico said:

What's your theory?  

1. Get the impression that neither is really a player dev guy.

2. Arizona has a lot going for it: weather, somewhat a “basketball school” by the standards of its relative popularity vis a vis football.

3. Seems like Nike knew how to get its dudes there.

4. I think Nike — via access to sponsored recruiting events, USA bball youth team events, etc. — and Millers have good relationships w/national bball media. So some of the UA recruits may have been scouted with sympathetic eyes.

5. And these are five star players I’m taking about, so they’re no slouches, they have physical tools and so on. But that brings us back to #1 above.

[Southside]

On 10/24/2021 at 8:55 AM, Honkyman said:

Woodson has started off well in recruiting; Archie started off well. Recruiting drops off when team performance on the court fails to meet expectations. Woodson has to win for IU's recruiting to continue at the current level.

Woodson has started off a ton better IMO. Archie's first year wasn't horrible, but I wouldn't say it was good. 1 top 100 guy isn't exactly stellar. Agreed that Woodson needs to follow it up with winning. But I think he will.

On 10/24/2021 at 10:14 AM, Rico said:

Failure on the court has got us in the position we are in.  Winning cures all ills.

Yup, yup, and more yup.

On 10/24/2021 at 2:03 PM, IU Scott said:

I wouldn't count Fears as an in state recruit since he is from Illinois.

Yup, but in state school that brings in a lot of out of state talent. Very nice fishing hole in the middle of the corn field. 

7 hours ago, lillurk said:

1. Get the impression that neither is really a player dev guy.

2. Arizona has a lot going for it: weather, somewhat a “basketball school” by the standards of its relative popularity vis a vis football.

3. Seems like Nike knew how to get its dudes there.

4. I think Nike — via access to sponsored recruiting events, USA bball youth team events, etc. — and Millers have good relationships w/national bball media. So some of the UA recruits may have been scouted with sympathetic eyes.

5. And these are five star players I’m taking about, so they’re no slouches, they have physical tools and so on. But that brings us back to #1 above.

I'm with you on #1. And I think they tried to force fit kids into their systems instead of trying to utilize strengths. 

[yogisballin]

Yup. But I still want the IN kids.
I think once we improve, the IN kids will want to come. 
So first things first.

I really don’t give a **** where they are from. I just want to win


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

[HoosierHoopster]

3 hours ago, yogisballin said:

I really don’t give a **** where they are from. I just want to win


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

And it's all circular really -- we win and we will land the top IN recruits, that fit what Woodson and staff are looking for.

So it's really what you prioritize -- win, along with building the program with the right kind of players to wear the cream and crimson (which Woodson is clearly doing right now), with the best players we can bring in from wherever, and then we become the destination school, again, for the top IN prospects, and we balance the team with IN players who Woodson and staff recruit -- not just because they're IN kids, because they fit the team staff is building now and for the future.

[Southside]

12 hours ago, yogisballin said:

I really don’t give a **** where they are from. I just want to win


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

I think we all would prefer winning over geography lol.

If we won a NC with 5 studs from North Dakota, I wouldn't care.

But...... if IN has some top 25 kids, I want them. And I want us to be winning, and good enough that those in state studs will want to come. A NC with 5 North Dakota kids would be awesome. But winning it with a few IN kids, a new level of awesome.

[DChoosier]

On 10/26/2021 at 7:41 AM, yogisballin said:

I really don’t give a **** where they are from. I just want to win


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

I agree. When UNC/Duke/Baylor/Villanova/UVA/UConn won championships did literally anyone ask or care how many of their players came from North Carolina, Texas, Pennsylvania, Virginia, or the high school basketball hotbed of Connecticut?  I’m all for getting the Indiana cream of the crop, when those players fill a need, but aside from that let’s get players that get us the W’s  ( with the caveat that they are a good fit).

[Demo]

16 hours ago, DChoosier said:

I agree. When UNC/Duke/Baylor/Villanova/UVA/UConn won championships did literally anyone ask or care how many of their players came from North Carolina, Texas, Pennsylvania, Virginia, or the high school basketball hotbed of Connecticut?  I’m all for getting the Indiana cream of the crop, when those players fill a need, but aside from that let’s get players that get us the W’s  ( with the caveat that they are a good fit).

100% true. And maybe I’m rationalizing some here, but Hoosier isn’t geography, it’s state of mind. Vic was a Hoosier. Jakai Newton screams Hoosier. Trey Lyles and Mitch McGary and Paul Scruggs weren’t. No disrespect intended towards them, they just weren’t.

[Trish]

https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/archie-miller-on-what-went-wrong-at-iu-identifying-shooting-would-have-helped-our-cause/

 

Sorry for the bump, but good article came out today with Archie and his time at Indiana. He mentions his recruiting at Indiana. 

[Alford Bailey]

I don’t really care where the talent comes from as long as we win. That said it’s been kind of problematic for us when the state had top talent and those guys went to a conference foe. In that case not only did we miss but must compete against said talent in conference play.