General Coach Candidate News

[str8baller 5,325]

3 hours ago, Uspshoosier said:

Each case is different and there are more reasons than wins and losses as to why coaches get fired.   Howland getting fired from ucla had more to do with the fact he ticked off AAU and high school coaches in the California.  They thought his offense stunk and him pulling a scholly from a local kid really pissed them off.    He was forced to recruit outside the state or lower level in state kids.    

I agree with this and what a couple others posted about circumstances being unique in each case. I just don’t think there’s anyone to pull up comparables and say IU has ever acted too quickly.  
 

Davis and Crean both annoyed the local recruiting base, but IU stuck with them long past when most reasonable people know they weren’t the next big coach.  
 

Doherty probably got the worst deal with a depleted roster causing his bad year and then  him having brought in the recruiting class that would be Roy’s first title team. Yet through back channels they knew Roy had changed his mind and would accept their offer to come back. So they axed him after 3 years, even when notable alumni like Jordan expressed some support for Doherty.  But…3 National Titles later nobody cries for Matt Doherty. He’s probably lucky if his invitation to alumni events doesn’t get lost in the mail. 
 

It’s a cut throat business. IU’s aww shucks Mr. Magoo approach doesn’t stand a chance absent some stroke of blind luck. 
 

To wit: Today, the B1G and SEC just announced that in essence they are asserting control over major college sports. The NCAA and other conferences be damned. Beyond coaching searches, it would be cool if IU were a leading voice in this new landscape instead of just tagging along, happy to be here. But honestly, I’d settle for a successful basketball coaching search. 

[str8baller 5,325]

3 hours ago, 8bucks said:

Gillespie also, reportedly, had some DUI issues to go along with a bad season in 2008.  

 

3 hours ago, go iu bb said:

IIRC with Howland, there was also some internal drama.

You guys are right, but I’d just like to point out two things.  
 

1) lots of coaches have these issues. If you win the fans never hear about them or dismiss them as irrelevant, and

2) it’s really easy for an Athletic Dept to push these media narratives, or even feed the stories to friendly outlets, once they make a firing.   
 

IU probably never expected some dope like Goodman to stick up for Archie, but we were still caught flatfooted with that media narrative. They should’ve had Rabjohns and a couple of others loaded with stories about how Archie was a malcontent, didn’t connect with alumni, couldn’t recruit, etc…  Instead we get painted as unrealistic lunatics of a fallen program that doesn’t deserve better than Archie. The little media battles matter for perception’s sake, especially if you don’t have a new coach signed up yet. 
 

 

[Hornsby 2,053]

I agree with this and what a couple others posted about circumstances being unique in each case. I just don’t think there’s anyone to pull up comparables and say IU has ever acted too quickly.  
 
Davis and Crean both annoyed the local recruiting base, but IU stuck with them long past when most reasonable people know they weren’t the next big coach.  
 
Doherty probably got the worst deal with a depleted roster causing his bad year and then  him having brought in the recruiting class that would be Roy’s first title team. Yet through back channels they knew Roy had changed his mind and would accept their offer to come back. So they axed him after 3 years, even when notable alumni like Jordan expressed some support for Doherty.  But…3 National Titles later nobody cries for Matt Doherty. He’s probably lucky if his invitation to alumni events doesn’t get lost in the mail. 
 
It’s a cut throat business. IU’s aww shucks Mr. Magoo approach doesn’t stand a chance absent some stroke of blind luck. 
 
To wit: Today, the B1G and SEC just announced that in essence they are asserting control over major college sports. The NCAA and other conferences be damned. Beyond coaching searches, it would be cool if IU were a leading voice in this new landscape instead of just tagging along, happy to be here. But honestly, I’d settle for a successful basketball coaching search. 

IU is probably a good gig for some cause the admins won't act fast. Crean and Davis perfect examples. I was honestly stunned they didn't give archie a 5th year. I thought for sure they would bring him back cause that's what IU does.

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[str8baller 5,325]

16 minutes ago, Hornsby said:

IU is probably a good gig for some cause the admins won't act fast. Crean and Davis perfect examples. I was honestly stunned they didn't give archie a 5th year. I thought for sure they would bring him back cause that's what IU does.

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Missing 4 straight tournaments is a lot even for our administration. It hasn’t happened since before Knight. And no single coach had missed 4 straight since the 60’s under McCracken, but I think you still had to win the conference back then to get an invite.   
 

It’s damn near unthinkable for a program of our stature in a 68 team field. It hasn’t happened to Purdue since the mid 70’s when the field was much smaller.  

[TTT 959]

Josh Schertz Indiana State Connect’s to fans and players.  His success is a double edged sword for Indiana State.

[TTT 959]

4 minutes ago, str8baller said:

Missing 4 straight tournaments is a lot even for our administration. It hasn’t happened since before Knight. And no single coach had missed 4 straight since the 60’s under McCracken, but I think you still had to win the conference back then to get an invite.   
 

It’s damn near unthinkable for a program of our stature in a 68 team field. It hasn’t happened to Purdue since the mid 70’s when the field was much smaller.  

Bubbling at a 68 team field for a once great program is failure 

[Hoosierfan2017 21,513]

46 minutes ago, Hornsby said:

IU is probably a good gig for some cause the admins won't act fast. Crean and Davis perfect examples. I was honestly stunned they didn't give archie a 5th year. I thought for sure they would bring him back cause that's what IU does.

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They probably would’ve brought him back if IU hadn’t lost out. 6 straight to end the year was too much even for the IU administration. 

[cthomas 6,488]

45 minutes ago, str8baller said:

And no single coach had missed 4 straight since the 60’s under McCracken, but I think you still had to win the conference back then to get an invite.   

Teams still had to win the conference to get in early in Coach Knight's tenure. IU played in a postseason tournament for conference runners-up in 1974 called something like the commissioner's tourney or something like that.

[Hornsby 2,053]

Missing 4 straight tournaments is a lot even for our administration. It hasn’t happened since before Knight. And no single coach had missed 4 straight since the 60’s under McCracken, but I think you still had to win the conference back then to get an invite.   

 

It’s damn near unthinkable for a program of our stature in a 68 team field. It hasn’t happened to Purdue since the mid 70’s when the field was much smaller.  

True but some tried to use the argument that the covid year they would have made it. Archie still had supporters at the end who thought he deserved another year. I really didn't think theg had the guts to can him honestly.

 

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[TTT 959]

One step forward and two steps back…over and over again….for about one quarter of a century = this is what you got.

[Deserthoozier 1,008]

15 hours ago, str8baller said:

 

You guys are right, but I’d just like to point out two things.  
 

1) lots of coaches have these issues. If you win the fans never hear about them or dismiss them as irrelevant, and

2) it’s really easy for an Athletic Dept to push these media narratives, or even feed the stories to friendly outlets, once they make a firing.   
 

IU probably never expected some dope like Goodman to stick up for Archie, but we were still caught flatfooted with that media narrative. They should’ve had Rabjohns and a couple of others loaded with stories about how Archie was a malcontent, didn’t connect with alumni, couldn’t recruit, etc…  Instead we get painted as unrealistic lunatics of a fallen program that doesn’t deserve better than Archie. The little media battles matter for perception’s sake, especially if you don’t have a new coach signed up yet. 
 

 

This is the key…‘don’t have a new coach lined up yet’..in this day and age, with a business that is so fundamental to IU’s identity…that is where the complete mismanagement comes in. As with any major, successful business, there should ALWAYS be multiple contingency plans — and especially when you know there is a relatively strong likelihood of failure with your current leadership. At the point you get to a search, it should almost be a mere formality — ‘I’ dotting on contract negotiations - or in the worst case, finalizing among a few choice candidates. Seems like we’re always caught w/our pants down —  starting a completely ‘organic’ search, a year or so late, and millions in buyout $$ short-which concedes power and gives way to perceptions of desperation. This falls 100% on AD leadership and the president and BOD’s support for being aggressive, but strategic and stealth. We operate like it’s still the 1950’s with a lot of hope. I’m not certain how sensitive the admin is to the current situation, but the knocking on the door is deafening, and likely not going away!

[str8baller 5,325]

14 hours ago, Hornsby said:

True but some tried to use the argument that the covid year they would have made it. Archie still had supporters at the end who thought he deserved another year. I really didn't think theg had the guts to can him honestly.

 

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That a fair point about the covid year. I wasn’t counting that. And I was pretty out on Archie by then and don’t remember how likely it was we were a sure tourney team. I think even counting that season following up that year with another miss going 1/4 is justification for getting canned at IU. 

[8bucks 6,469]

43 minutes ago, Deserthoozier said:

This is the key…‘don’t have a new coach lined up yet’..in this day and age, with a business that is so fundamental to IU’s identity…that is where the complete mismanagement comes in. As with any major, successful business, there should ALWAYS be multiple contingency plans — and especially when you know there is a relatively strong likelihood of failure with your current leadership. At the point you get to a search, it should almost be a mere formality — ‘I’ dotting on contract negotiations - or in the worst case, finalizing among a few choice candidates. Seems like we’re always caught w/our pants down —  starting a completely ‘organic’ search, a year or so late, and millions in buyout $$ short-which concedes power and gives way to perceptions of desperation. This falls 100% on AD leadership and the president and BOD’s support for being aggressive, but strategic and stealth. We operate like it’s still the 1950’s with a lot of hope. I’m not certain how sensitive the admin is to the current situation, but the knocking on the door is deafening, and likely not going away!

This is probably the goal but candidates play the game too and give all the right signals but often decide to stay when you need them to sign. UCLA even UNC had trouble until Roy changed his mind after they hired Daugherty. If you have followed other school hirings the last few years this happens a lot. 
 

 

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan 6,241]

One step forward and two steps back…over and over again….for about one quarter of a century = this is what you got.

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=lTHCwU9rUdY&si=CMlnIYo9hbAgf_WX

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[TTT 959]

http://the Athletic.com//josh Schertz article (google it)

Today’s (temporary and fleeting) happiness for Indiana State and fun as long as it lasts.

[str8baller 5,325]

1 hour ago, 8bucks said:

This is probably the goal but candidates play the game too and give all the right signals but often decide to stay when you need them to sign. UCLA even UNC had trouble until Roy changed his mind after they hired Daugherty. If you have followed other school hirings the last few years this happens a lot. 
 

 

Lots of agents will use an open spot to get their coach client a raise at their current spot. It’s an AD’s job to know the difference.  
 

UNC really only whiffed on Roy once with the Doherty hire. No AD will ever be able to side step the land mine of a retiring legend picking his replacement.
 

UCLA has had similar trouble to us but bouts of success. UK has mostly nailed theirs. KU definitely has. Duke is tbd. UConn seems to have finally landed the guy. L’ville is down bad, but we’ll see what they do after KP.  Out of all the conceivable “blue bloods” we have fared the worst, imo, with coaching decisions the last few decades. 

[TTT 959]

Wooden from Indiana State to UCLA 

Knight from Army to IU 

Keady from Western Ky to Purdue 

Say again why not Josh Schertz from Indiana State to IU???

[Uspshoosier 45,892]

2 hours ago, str8baller said:

remember how likely it was we were a sure tourney team

After beating Nebraska on Wednesday that basically sealed it they were going to be a tourney team just a matter if they could have improved their seeding by beating Penn St on Thursday.     I would have to look back but I had them as a 10 or 11 seed I believe after they won.  

[Trish 11,616]

Fire Woodson. 

[JSHoosier 20,301]

1 minute ago, Trish said:

Fire Woodson. 

Can't, he has to have a chance to completely screw things up instead of just showing why no one wanted him for HC for nearly a decade.