They “Retired” Coach Woodson Thread

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

2 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

So winning overnight is priority over setting, building, and growing a foundation?

And yet I still don't understand why people are shocked that we do this every few years. 

Pretty well proven by Pope, Kelsey, Beard that you can start doing some winning immediately and actually show signs of decent basketball.

[Artie86]

Just now, Chris007 said:

OK weird they would have an emergency meeting but it's IU weird things happen all the time.  

smoke screen.....

[tyappleg]

3 minutes ago, Pudman said:

Confirmed that yesterdays meeting of that committee was not about what we hoped it would be about.

I choose not to believe you. 

[OKHOOSIER]

Just now, AH1971 said:

So winning overnight is priority over setting, building, and growing a foundation?

And yet I still don't understand why people are shocked that we do this every few years. 

Dude I’m not litigating this again, I have said repeatedly, if MW had a good high school class coming in last year, I could have understood  him getting a 4th year. He didn’t, so he deserved to be fired given the body of work. 
 

Twisting every argument and responding with “So…..” and moving the goalposts into an if/then black/white in every response is tiresome and ignores all the nuance. 

[jbeaman9]

Pretty certain I read on their website that the hiring/firing of coaches is a subcommittee. Very plausible the entire group met but the subcommittee on hiring/firing met separately on their own. Spitballing here. 

[ap2345]

4 minutes ago, Pudman said:

Confirmed that yesterday’s meeting of that committee was not about what we hoped it would be about.

Hmmm 

[Eagle’s Rug]

8 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

When the demands and expectations of the job require you to win overnight, what other choice do you have? 

The fan base HAD to give Crean 2-3 years because he literally started with nothing. And he enjoyed the most success by far. I don't believe that to be a coincidence. Do you?

Any other coach should lay a foundation in the first couple years, but Woody blew off recruiting and relied on the portal because he had no other choice.  Did I get that right?

Crean enjoyed the most success because he was a miles better coach than Bigfoot or Archie.  He worked his butt off, but he was an odd bird who flailed when his game plan needed to be adjusted in game.    He was outgoing and able to hold a press conference that explained his approach.  Great player development, his staff wasn’t outstanding, but is way better than what we have now.  I love how you are turning disadvantages that Crean had into reasons for why he had it better than his successors.

[Stuhoo]

2 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

So winning overnight is priority over setting, building, and growing a foundation?

And yet I still don't understand why people are shocked that we do this every few years. 

Nope. Great point, and your point could explain why Woody was such a bad hire:

• His Twitter/X account is "@MikeWoodsonNBA."
• During his introductory remarks when hired, he frequently noted that he is older and doesn't have time to 'win later'
• He clearly has not established a foundation,
• Tried to build a quick-winning program through
  • NIL,
  • roster turnover, and
  • speed date recruiting of high ranked kids that he didn't have to follow for years. 

 

[Artie86]

2 minutes ago, jbeaman9 said:

Pretty certain I read on their website that the hiring/firing of coaches is a subcommittee. Very plausible the entire group met but the subcommittee on hiring/firing met separately on their own. Spitballing here. 

[Hoosier987]

59 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I don't think Cig wants himself or his players around the basketball program. He's afraid something will rub off

Can't blame him. He's the exact opposite of Woodson in terms of winner's mentality and culture setting. 

[AH1971]

2 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Nope. Great point, and your point could explain why Woody was such a bad hire:

• His Twitter/X account is "@MikeWoodsonNBA."
• During his introductory remarks when hired, he frequently noted that he is older and doesn't have time to 'win later'
• He clearly has not established a foundation,
• Tried to build a quick-winning program through
  • NIL,
  • roster turnover, and
  • speed date recruiting of high ranked kids that he didn't have to follow for years. 

 

All I'm saying is that whoever is hired should get more than two years before he has to start looking over his shoulders. 

[Hoosier DaDa]

1 hour ago, AH1971 said:

We don't hire the "wrong" coaches. We hire the best available candidates. Those thinking IU voluntarily hired Archie over Billy Donovan or chose to retain Woodson over Bruce Pearl don't live in an accepted reality. Anybody who operates on the line of thinking that the IU job is one you cannot turn down hasn't been paying attention the last few decades.

The IU job is a good job as in it: a) pays well b) gives you the resources to succeed c) rewards you for success

But to think that the IU job is on a tier of its own is pure nonsense. It isn't.  

Oh I see you’re just coming back in a different form/angle…still telling everyone how to think. Drop your pitchfork we don’t want you on this side.

[AZ Hoosier]

2 hours ago, realTomCrean said:

I believe what you're saying, but what specifically was done to cause her to back out? With a huge check already written and plans underway, what possibly could have been done by an IU member to disrupt the deal? 

Well, when Buckner and Ferguson are involved, I'm sure they were more loyal to Woodson than to IU. I'm sure both were more than capable of blowing the deal up... and, obviously, they were successful.

[Artie86]

7 minutes ago, ap2345 said:

Hmmm 

.....anyway you look at it, if it was that committee or board or whoever, I GUARANTEE some type of meeting took place somewhere on the IU campus to discuss IU BB and Coach Woodson between Dolson and somebody! He was there and witnessed the whole thing. 

[AZ Hoosier]

2 hours ago, Pagoda said:

I get there are concerns about the optics of firing Woody after three years.

But, what about the optics of this season as a result of keeping him?  The 20+ point blowouts, ranked in the 60’s after huge NIL spend, empty AH, and significant national media criticism.  And we whiffed on another high school recruiting class, including top Indiana kids, which starts to compromise next year.  These optics are a lot worse than firing a bad coach after three years.

Optics be damned. There is a lot more involved... nepotism, incompetence (on many levels, including the BoT and the coaching staff), results over the past 25 years...

[Artie86]

Just now, AZ Hoosier said:

Optics be damned. There is a lot more involved... nepotism, incompetence (on many levels, including the BoT and the coaching staff), results over the past 25 years...

This^^^^^

#1.   refer to the bolded.....

[Stuhoo]

18 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

All I'm saying is that whoever is hired should get more than two years before he has to start looking over his shoulders. 

Sure! And absent a Kenny Payne-like complete program nuclear meltdown from day one a head coach should get four years.

For me the best reason to have parted from Woody after last year was the opportunity to hire Dusty May, who would have been a uniquely outstanding long-term solution.  Nevertheless, I understand the logic behind giving him a fourth year - there will always be excellent replacement choices for a mega-program like IU.

But now? We're approaching nuclear meltdown mode if not already there, and it seems like the best of our various bad options is to cut bait mid-season.

[Golfman25]

1 hour ago, AH1971 said:

Winning instantly (because of the portal) doesn't translate to building and establishing a culture. We've had one coach do that the last 25 years (Crean) and he was by far and away our best coach since RMK. The portal alleviates 6-25 seasons in year 1, but if you're buying 7-8 guys every single offseason, you aren't building or establishing anything. 



And yet that is exactly what "The King" decided to do because he had zero interest in going to HS gyms and recruiting HS players.  That was clear by year 2 and definitely 3, yet you think he deserved a year 4, where he had to bring in the mother load of portal players?  SMH.  

[IUCrazy2]

3 hours ago, AH1971 said:

He's not been interested in the job either of the last two times its been open. I think it goes without being said where his heart lies. 

But I'm not going to stop you from thinking the third time is the charm. 

I am not in the prediction business but how many times did North Carolina have to ask Roy Williams?

[Hoosier987]

22 minutes ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

@Chris007

LOL. We have to have one of the worst Assistant Coaching Staffs (not support staff) in the country. This is what happens when you have an assistant hired solely because World Wide Wes wanted him to get a job...and 2 others who were on the former coaching staff...a Staff that lost a lot of games...and of course, Walsh being one of them, tried to jump ship on Woodson and go join OSU.  Clearly, our assistant coaching staff doesn't do anything of substance, because if they did, we wouldn't be seeing the same dumb stuff game in and game out.