A Case for Dusty May

[triple 412]

6 minutes ago, Artie86 said:

I thought I read somewhere that Coach May currently has an "out" clause ONLY for IU, in his current contract with FAC....if they offer. Any truth to that?

Doubtful.  But if any major program goes after him the buy-out won't be an issue.  It's $1.5M dropping to $1M next month.

FAU contract

[SamIam 646]

Woodson is getting another year. That being said, I'm all in on May after Woody and I don't think waiting a year will close the door on our chance to get him. I think he will take one of the open jobs (L'Ville, Michigan, Depaul) and it will be a good trial run at a higher level. From what I've heard, if/when we come calling he will take the job. 

I do love his system. Its modern like Shrews' and Shertz's except its more adaptable. I've seen Shrews and Shertz lose when they aren't hitting 3's. If you watch FAU's run last year, they kept winning because they could win in a bunch of different ways. They could win games by hitting 3's, getting to the line, playing through the post, locking down the other team etc etc. And all that with only 2 rotation players over 6'4.  Everyone on the team can shoot, drive, and defend. Their versatility made it really hard take them out of one thing that they do well. Plus, CBB is a young man's game right now. It takes sheer power of will, coaching, recruiting etc to be successful and he has youth and high energy that would be a huge benefit. 

[Trish 11,566]

Dusty wasn’t on my short list when Archie was fired. 
 

But I trust Dusty May more than I trust Woodson at this point. Dusty May could be the “Indiana” guy. Frankly, May is more qualified to be the guy compared to Woodson. 
 

Dusty is my #1 option. Right behind Brad Steven’s of course! 

[DLG3 1,067]

A Case for Dusty May

 

There are no sure things in coaching hires but I think we can approach things with more nuance than hand-waving him into a pile with coaches who’ve had one good March run and flamed out later. (Also I think lots of the coaches being dismissed that way have had pretty good careers if they ended up getting a high-major chance anyway.)

 

In his first HC job, he is the best coach in FAU’s history by many orders of magnitude. Even setting aside weighing last year’s F4 run too heavily, the team’s best ever Torvik finish before May was 184th, back in 2011. May arrived in ‘19 and has been higher than that EVERY YEAR.

 

FAU has been D-1 since ‘93 and he’s the third longest-tenured coach in their history. He already has 115 of their 378 all-time D-1 wins. His career win% is 64.2%, FAU before him was 35.5%.

 

Second, even setting aside the F4 run, last year’s team was 31-3 before the tournament, with strong predictive/performance numbers. They were quite underseeded at 9. Again, at FAU. He’s cruising to an at-large, and they would’ve been so last year…at FAU. That’s not Dayton, or VCU, Gonzaga, or Wichita State, someplace with a strong hoops culture and history.

 

Third, the manner in which his FAU roster last year and this have been built bodes well for his ability to identify and develop players. Boyd, Martin, and Davis are homegrown, and each from a different region of the country. Goldin, Gaffney, and Greenlee were down-transfers from high majors, but none of the three was an established difference maker, and 2 of the 3 had very little college game tape. As far as I can tell those are the only transfers — nothing wrong with TRs but it speaks to his ability to find and build players, not just work with top ### guys. At IU you can get in the door with those guys. If he can build some guys who’ll get NBA looks with what was available to him at FAU, he can win at IU. Occasionally I see folks suggest they’re concerned about his recruiting but that misses how the sausage is made: you are only getting top guys at FAU if you 1) parent them, 2) their parents work there, or 3) some other absurd thing like 1 or 2. If he can compete like this without obvious HS talent, he’ll be fine, and IU has had dudes under every 21st century coach.

 

It’s also noteworthy that he kept the squad together this year. Even after last year’s success, I’m sure there were tantalizing opportunities for many (most?) of his roster. I think that level of buy-in and relationship scales up. They tend to spread minutes around, too, which isn’t always the answer but suggests mutual trust. This isn’t just a couple diamond-in-the-rough studs.

I’m sure we all figured they’d be pretty good this year, but I’ve been impressed that they’ve actually met or outperformed computer projections, which thought they’d be good but could be more “bubble team” than top 25.

 

I would rather win ugly than lose pretty, but FAU plays modern, attractive hoops and competes on defense. By % of minutes played their top 5 most-used players this year are wings or guards. They play one true big about 90% of the time…and the 10% that’s not true are minutes with no big or a hybrid forward at the 5, not plodding two big lineups. They’ve been well-rounded on both sides of the ball, i.e. their success isn’t JUST dependent on dominating the turnover battle or strong shooting or something else that’s gonna graduate with one particular class.

 

Finally, I love his quiet confidence. He thought he could stay and win at FAU. People know he wants the IU job, even though he knows what expectations that means. Arrogance gets in the way of self-improvement, but to win at a high level some confidence is a must.

 

I hope to watch the track record get longer, but what’s there is already really impressive, and makes me think he could jump somewhere like Louisville, Michigan, etc. and succeed quickly and for awhile. Let’s hope he does so at IU eventually. (Cc [mention=7329]DLG3[/mention])

Awesome case for him and thanks for posting. I agree on the points you’ve made. I think he would be a massive step up in player development, which if you boil it all down, has been IU’s biggest problem for years. Each coach has had talent. The best IU teams of the last 20+ years are because of individuals that took huge steps forward Ie Victor, Yogi, TJD. We need more of that. Look at the team up north. They freakin develop guys year after year.

I thought it spoke volumes that Dusty was able to keep Davis and Martin. Those guys could have gone anywhere for their “brand,” etc, and to make more NIL, but they stayed with the culture-building coach that they also knew would make them even better. Just my opinion, but give me that at IU. We have like 1 player this year that took the next step forward, and that’s not enough.


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[Scotty R 2,139]

42 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I’m very pessimistic when it comes to about everything, lol. I want to see IU move like the top dogs move. Poaching someone’s coach would be a clear signal that we’re ready to start doing so. Hiring May is a wait and see move. I’m too impatient at this point for that. 

May could succeed here, and he very well may be the best we can do. It just doesn’t fire me up. 

The thing is that the openings lately of the top dogs has not shown teams poaching other top coaches

[Kentuckysucks 2,259]

3 minutes ago, Scotty R said:

The thing is that the openings lately of the top dogs has not shown teams poaching other top coaches

Still happens a lot in football.

[Golfman25 5,437]

1 hour ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

The mid-major flavor of the year doesn’t excite me. I want to poach a coach from another program. If IU can’t do that (and I don’t think they can), then we’re likely in for another multi-year slow burn rebuild. I’m not interested in that. I’ve been hearing “it’s only year X, wait till he gets his guys and system in place” for far too long. Get me a guy who can kick a** in year 1 and I’ll be excited. 

FYI, it's not about you.  LOL  :)  

[Scotty R 2,139]

Just now, Kentuckysucks said:

Still happens a lot in football.

Not basketball

Duke assistant no HC experience

UNC assistant no HC experience

Syracuse assistant no HC experience

Villanova former assistant with 1 year of HC at a mid major 

[Golfman25 5,437]

1 hour ago, lillurk said:

 

 

Tend to agree that Woodson deserves another year if he wants it, though of course his direct report needs to give him some clear feedback about the issues everyone sees (Dolson sees it too, I’m sure).

That’s clearly fair, unless he’s just done, in which case we have no choice. Practically speaking CMW’s buyout is 50% of remaining salary after 4/1/25.

Are we sure May would go to UL? I’m not convinced. There was some reporting/rumor going around that they were pretty low on cash, he probably has the guys to be prettt good again at FAU next year, and if he has an inkling the dream job might come available….

Even if UL is interested — and I’m not convinced — I don’t know if the interest is mutual.

Use the Cubs rule.  Nobody deserves anything.  Hired Renteria only to fire a year later when Joe Madden became available.  World Series was next.  Did the same basic thing with Ross, fired after an extension, and hired Counsell.

If Dusty is the man, Dolson needs to lock him up sooner rather than later.  That could be a "your next after Woodson" conversation, which may not be worth much, but it's something.    

[Golfman25 5,437]

38 minutes ago, SamIam said:

Woodson is getting another year. That being said, I'm all in on May after Woody and I don't think waiting a year will close the door on our chance to get him. I think he will take one of the open jobs (L'Ville, Michigan, Depaul) and it will be a good trial run at a higher level. From what I've heard, if/when we come calling he will take the job. 

I do love his system. Its modern like Shrews' and Shertz's except its more adaptable. I've seen Shrews and Shertz lose when they aren't hitting 3's. If you watch FAU's run last year, they kept winning because they could win in a bunch of different ways. They could win games by hitting 3's, getting to the line, playing through the post, locking down the other team etc etc. And all that with only 2 rotation players over 6'4.  Everyone on the team can shoot, drive, and defend. Their versatility made it really hard take them out of one thing that they do well. Plus, CBB is a young man's game right now. It takes sheer power of will, coaching, recruiting etc to be successful and he has youth and high energy that would be a huge benefit. 

Watch a bit of their game the other day.  They apparently reincarnated Dr. Brian Sloan.  Big guy simply sits top of the lane and sets as many screens in 30 seconds as he can.  Oh the memories -- just missing Dickie V.  :)  

[DLG3 1,067]

Watch a bit of their game the other day.  They apparently reincarnated Dr. Brian Sloan.  Big guy simply sits top of the lane and sets as many screens in 30 seconds as he can.  Oh the memories -- just missing Dickie V.  :)  

Wait, he runs offense with more than 1 screen per possession? I’m out…


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[IUrocker 2,185]

Let’s say Dolson has Dusty May in mind and wants him to be the next guy in line. I wonder if at this point he thinks the only way we get him is to make the move asap in hopes he doesn’t end up spending time somewhere else, or if he’s not really worried about the when and thinks we’ll get him whenever once it’s time to pull the trigger

Obviously if IU is his dream job he would come, but I wonder if it would matter to Dolson to not want to risk having an extra destination in between FAU and IU and get it done sooner than later. Like I said, maybe if we do spend more time with Woodson and Dusty gets picked up by another P5 school, it won’t matter and he still comes…or maybe if he already knows he’s lined up to come to IU and plans on just sitting tight at FAU til the move is made. 

[Henryville Hoosier 973]

Dusty could bring some of his players.

[Ryno6284 2,675]

We act like Dolson and May haven't already spoken.  I'm sure things are already in place, we just don't know yet!  If Dusty doesn't go anywhere after this year, I think that is very telling!

[Hoosierfan2017 21,430]

28 minutes ago, Scotty R said:

Not basketball

Duke assistant no HC experience

UNC assistant no HC experience

Syracuse assistant no HC experience

Villanova former assistant with 1 year of HC at a mid major 

Texas poached a coach from an in-state conference rival. 

[Hoosierfan2017 21,430]

29 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

FYI, it's not about you.  LOL  :)  

If you want to watch more rebuilding that’s your choice, but I’m ready for fun IU basketball again. We haven’t had a fun season since 2016. I want a coach who can win immediately. 

[spe317 498]

2 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

If you want to watch more rebuilding that’s your choice, but I’m ready for fun IU basketball again. We haven’t had a fun season since 2016. I want a coach who can win immediately. 

I’d rather enjoy watching good, fun teams play and lose for a couple years to win years 3-30 rather than win tomorrow and suck in a few years or vacate in a couple. 

[IndyResident16 567]

Dusty May checks many of the same boxes that several failed up and comers before him all did as well. I think his name is enticing to most because it’s not Mike Woodson and he has ties to the university. Hiring a coach of May’s caliber is a crapshoot every single time. I don’t doubt his belief in his own system or ability to recruit guys to his system as is this case with most up and comers.
 

But does he have the stones (you know cajones) to succeed at this job? That’s what it all boils down too. That’s my fear anytime we hire somebody from a level or program that doesn’t have expectations. Few do and that’s why so few make it. I think Dusty May absolutely “could” succeed here, it’s just not a hire that excites me. He’ll get his 3-4 years and then it’s sink or swim. In most cases, you can tell the general direction of a program after 2.

[rcbowla 7,125]

Texas poached a coach from an in-state conference rival. 

Ot the same. It was his Alma mater

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[lillurk 3,756]

Why does anyone assume new coach = multi-year rebuild in the portal era with IU’s resources?