Xavier Arrested...

[cthomas]

2 hours ago, MikeRoberts said:

I hope he is not, I would be disappointed in Woodson. X is a talent that needs some parenting/coaching/help maturing.

the world is coming fast for him and he is either going to sink or swim and he needs a man in his life like Woodson to take him under his wing.

there are ways for Woodson to get through to him and help him mature. He seems to have some emotional maturity issues and he needs to work through them quickly before he enters the real world 

I agree. It's incredibly insensitive to talk about how easily he can be replaced as a basketball player. He is way more than that. He is a human being who has had maturity issues in the past but who has also shown growth throughout the past year. He's not a finished product by any means. Growth can be a stop and start kind of process. I trust that CMW is on top of this and will do what is appropriate. Without knowing anything, I don't think CMW will bail on the young man just to make room for another player. If he does, he's not the man I think he is.

[jk34]

2 minutes ago, cthomas said:

I agree. It's incredibly insensitive to talk about how easily he can be replaced as a basketball player. He is way more than that. He is a human being who has had maturity issues in the past but who has also shown growth throughout the past year. He's not a finished product by any means. Growth can be a stop and start kind of process. I trust that CMW is on top of this and will do what is appropriate. Without knowing anything, I don't think CMW will bail on the young man just to make room for another player. If he does, he's not the man I think he is.

This!

We live in a guilty until proven innocent world! Everyone wants to be the judge, jury, and executioner from a distance. 

Sad

[Old Friend]

I'm not here much anymore, so I couldn't care less if this is popular or not.

You can have the transfer portal.  I've seen enough.  Stewart's trouble and it seems to find him on a regular basis. 

Durr lasted a single season before he bolted.

Johnson makes really bad decisions (which are consistently tolerated) on the floor, and apparently dumber ones off of it.    He was suspended 7 weeks ago.  Didn't learn a thing.  Obviously has no respect for the program, his coaches, or his team mates.  He displayed horrible character trying to change seats with the other kid.

Regarding Woodson's marijuana episode, the ones who admitted to it stayed.  The ones who lied were kicked off.  Johnson essentially tried to lie to a cop.   I see some here saying "he needs some parenting/coaching," etc.  From who?  Woodson?  He clearly doesn't respect Woodson.  Or the kid he tried to throw under the bus.  This isn't a simple "mistake."  I also see here some telling others to stop playing judge and jury....but to those with that stance?  The facts are out.  He was driving 90 MPH on Walnut.  What if he'd hit someone a la Henry Ruggs?   He then tried to evade police and THEN switched seats with another kid trying to cover his a$$.   No.  This is not a "mistake."  It's another error judgement, this time far more dangerous.  It's a disrespectful act toward law enforcement and toward his team.  Nobody's playing judge and jury.  Facts are facts and this will never go to "court."  Xavier will not have his "day" in court.  He was driving 90 MPH on Walnut and evaded police while throwing another kid under the bus.  And "trouble" was in the back seat.  Those facts have been substantively accepted and people are very much allowed to opine on them without the "we live in an innocent until proven guilty" country.  Yes we do.  But if you think this is some Perry Mason TV show where Johnson can get off with a slick lawyer and via technicality, stop watching cop shows.  He IS guilty.

I have seen the race card played.  You know...racist cops who somehow were supposed to know (in the dark and a black car) that the driver was an African American man.  Nope.  That's not the case, either.   No.  This is a kid who's been a loose cannon since he got here,.  Yes he helped win a few basketball games.   He also helped lose a few with bad decisions, and he's proving that's just who he is.  Some can make excuses for him. You can say "give him a break.  He's just a kid who made a mistake."   He played that hand in Chicago.  Not this time.  He needs to go, and I don't care one bit if Indiana loses a few games because of it.  I care far more about the culture of the program and the long term.  When you're a college athlete on a scholarship, the expectations placed on you, and the responsibility given you are far greater than normal college kids.  Some "kid." This cat's 22 1/2 years old.  

Nobody should cover for, apologize for, or excuse this.  He was arrested. 7 weeks after he was suspended.  He tried to run from it.  Tried to let another kid take the bullet for him.  Learned not one thing from his suspension.  Indiana is either a blue blood program or we're just another garbage team that tolerates garbage behavior and allows kids to disrespect the uniform they wear time and time again.   Someone else can have the transfer portal.  And someone else can have Xavier Johnson.  I'm sure Woodson will bring him back and cite Knight's doing so for him.  That's predictable.  But in 2 weeks, Woodson has lost by 30 in the round of 64, lost 4 players and 2 coaches....meanwhile throwing one of THOSE under the bus.  It seems to run in the family. 

If I'm Scott Dolson, I'm thinking long and hard about "institutional control," and calling Mike Woodson on the carpet immediately.

Have at me.  I know it's coming.  Maybe I said what some think.  But I know some will vehemently disagree, and to those I'll point to 22 years of tolerating crap from this program and what do we have to show for it?

[WayneShadowIU]

29 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

I'm not here much anymore, so I couldn't care less if this is popular or not.

You can have the transfer portal.  I've seen enough.  Stewart's trouble and it seems to find him on a regular basis. 

Durr lasted a single season before he bolted.

Johnson makes really bad decisions (which are consistently tolerated) on the floor, and apparently dumber ones off of it.    He was suspended 7 weeks ago.  Didn't learn a thing.  Obviously has no respect for the program, his coaches, or his team mates.  He displayed horrible character trying to change seats with the other kid.

Regarding Woodson's marijuana episode, the ones who admitted to it stayed.  The ones who lied were kicked off.  Johnson essentially tried to lie to a cop.   I see some here saying "he needs some parenting/coaching," etc.  From who?  Woodson?  He clearly doesn't respect Woodson.  Or the kid he tried to throw under the bus.  This isn't a simple "mistake."  I also see here some telling others to stop playing judge and jury....but to those with that stance?  The facts are out.  He was driving 90 MPH on Walnut.  What if he'd hit someone a la Henry Ruggs?   He then tried to evade police and THEN switched seats with another kid trying to cover his a$$.   No.  This is not a "mistake."  It's another error judgement, this time far more dangerous.  It's a disrespectful act toward law enforcement and toward his team.  Nobody's playing judge and jury.  Facts are facts and this will never go to "court."  Xavier will not have his "day" in court.  He was driving 90 MPH on Walnut and evaded police while throwing another kid under the bus.  And "trouble" was in the back seat.  Those facts have been substantively accepted and people are very much allowed to opine on them without the "we live in an innocent until proven guilty" country.  Yes we do.  But if you think this is some Perry Mason TV show where Johnson can get off with a slick lawyer and via technicality, stop watching cop shows.  He IS guilty.

I have seen the race card played.  You know...racist cops who somehow were supposed to know (in the dark and a black car) that the driver was an African American man.  Nope.  That's not the case, either.   No.  This is a kid who's been a loose cannon since he got here,.  Yes he helped win a few basketball games.   He also helped lose a few with bad decisions, and he's proving that's just who he is.  Some can make excuses for him. You can say "give him a break.  He's just a kid who made a mistake."   He played that hand in Chicago.  Not this time.  He needs to go, and I don't care one bit if Indiana loses a few games because of it.  I care far more about the culture of the program and the long term.  When you're a college athlete on a scholarship, the expectations placed on you, and the responsibility given you are far greater than normal college kids.  Some "kid." This cat's 22 1/2 years old.  

Nobody should cover for, apologize for, or excuse this.  He was arrested. 7 weeks after he was suspended.  He tried to run from it.  Tried to let another kid take the bullet for him.  Learned not one thing from his suspension.  Indiana is either a blue blood program or we're just another garbage team that tolerates garbage behavior and allows kids to disrespect the uniform they wear time and time again.   Someone else can have the transfer portal.  And someone else can have Xavier Johnson.  I'm sure Woodson will bring him back and cite Knight's doing so for him.  That's predictable.  But in 2 weeks, Woodson has lost by 30 in the round of 64, lost 4 players and 2 coaches....meanwhile throwing one of THOSE under the bus.  It seems to run in the family. 

If I'm Scott Dolson, I'm thinking long and hard about "institutional control," and calling Mike Woodson on the carpet immediately.

Have at me.  I know it's coming.  Maybe I said what some think.  But I know some will vehemently disagree, and to those I'll point to 22 years of tolerating crap from this program and what do we have to show for it?

Holy straw man. You’re making this worse than it is by using some rhetorical tricks. Henry Ruggs, for example. There’s quite a bit of difference between driving 90 (which I am willing to best most of us have done) and driving 156 (which I’m willing to bet none of us have done). Your equivocation to this and other incidents is leading to quite the overreaction.

[Honkyman]

3 hours ago, WayneShadowIU said:

You can have the transfer portal.  I've seen enough.  Stewart's trouble

Stewart didn't arrive through the transfer portal. He was a graduate transfer who Archie Miller recruited to IU after Stewart's coach--his father--died unexpectedly.

WayneShadowIU is apparently one angry dude. Fortunately, no rationale person would listen to an irrational angry man's rant.

 

[JSHoosier]

8 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

Agreed! And I would guess that the consequences may be painful, even if we don’t see them publicly.

I want to clarify, I'm in no way saying it's only bad because it's his second known incident.  It's bad enough on it's own because it's a series of  dumb decisions with each one being dumber than the previous.  He's a 5th year senior, more should be expected in regards to behavior and setting an example for the team.  Going 90, then trying to get away, then switching seats hoping someone else would take the fall goes beyond a just a "dumb mistake" in my book and he'd get more than a 1 game suspension even if it was his 1st incident.

Being his 2nd incident just makes it even worse.

[CSP]

1 hour ago, JSHoosier said:

I want to clarify, I'm in no way saying it's only bad because it's his second known incident.  It's bad enough on it's own because it's a series of  dumb decisions with each one being dumber than the previous.  He's a 5th year senior, more should be expected in regards to behavior and setting an example for the team.  Going 90, then trying to get away, then switching seats hoping someone else would take the fall goes beyond a just a "dumb mistake" in my book and he'd get more than a 1 game suspension even if it was his 1st incident.

Being his 2nd incident just makes it even worse.

It doesn't appear the law will constitute it as "more than a mistake".. neither should Woody. 

[Honkyman]

8 minutes ago, btownqb said:

It doesn't appear the law will constitute it as "more than a mistake"..

It's not clear what you mean by that. Will Xavier walk away without some penalty. No. But will Monroe County prosecute the felony charge ("resisting law enforcement")? Extremely unlikely. Prosecutors will very likely drop that charge and require Xavier to agree to some type of excessive speeding charge. In other words, he will pay a fine. All of this will be resolved well in advance of the start of the season irrespective of whether Xavier remains at IU or moves on. As for Coach Woodson, like most coaches in this situation he is concerned with the individual as well as the program. Would Xavier learn more from the incident if disciplined inside the program by the coach or would he learn more by leaving the program? As a player who Bobby Knight kept on after Knight caught him and others smoking dope (clearly illegal and at that time rarely tolerated), Woodson understands the value of teaching players who have done bad things off-the-court internally. I could be wrong, but I don't see Woodson dismissing Xavier. If Woodson is struggling with what to do, Xavier will enter the transfer portal or otherwise leave on his own.

[IUFAN1976]

4 hours ago, WayneShadowIU said:

Holy straw man. You’re making this worse than it is by using some rhetorical tricks. Henry Ruggs, for example. There’s quite a bit of difference between driving 90 (which I am willing to best most of us have done) and driving 156 (which I’m willing to bet none of us have done). Your equivocation to this and other incidents is leading to quite the overreaction.

Driving 90 and hitting someone will still kill somebody, I think that’s his point.

[IUFAN1976]

5 hours ago, Old Friend said:

I'm not here much anymore, so I couldn't care less if this is popular or not.

You can have the transfer portal.  I've seen enough.  Stewart's trouble and it seems to find him on a regular basis. 

Durr lasted a single season before he bolted.

Johnson makes really bad decisions (which are consistently tolerated) on the floor, and apparently dumber ones off of it.    He was suspended 7 weeks ago.  Didn't learn a thing.  Obviously has no respect for the program, his coaches, or his team mates.  He displayed horrible character trying to change seats with the other kid.

Regarding Woodson's marijuana episode, the ones who admitted to it stayed.  The ones who lied were kicked off.  Johnson essentially tried to lie to a cop.   I see some here saying "he needs some parenting/coaching," etc.  From who?  Woodson?  He clearly doesn't respect Woodson.  Or the kid he tried to throw under the bus.  This isn't a simple "mistake."  I also see here some telling others to stop playing judge and jury....but to those with that stance?  The facts are out.  He was driving 90 MPH on Walnut.  What if he'd hit someone a la Henry Ruggs?   He then tried to evade police and THEN switched seats with another kid trying to cover his a$$.   No.  This is not a "mistake."  It's another error judgement, this time far more dangerous.  It's a disrespectful act toward law enforcement and toward his team.  Nobody's playing judge and jury.  Facts are facts and this will never go to "court."  Xavier will not have his "day" in court.  He was driving 90 MPH on Walnut and evaded police while throwing another kid under the bus.  And "trouble" was in the back seat.  Those facts have been substantively accepted and people are very much allowed to opine on them without the "we live in an innocent until proven guilty" country.  Yes we do.  But if you think this is some Perry Mason TV show where Johnson can get off with a slick lawyer and via technicality, stop watching cop shows.  He IS guilty.

I have seen the race card played.  You know...racist cops who somehow were supposed to know (in the dark and a black car) that the driver was an African American man.  Nope.  That's not the case, either.   No.  This is a kid who's been a loose cannon since he got here,.  Yes he helped win a few basketball games.   He also helped lose a few with bad decisions, and he's proving that's just who he is.  Some can make excuses for him. You can say "give him a break.  He's just a kid who made a mistake."   He played that hand in Chicago.  Not this time.  He needs to go, and I don't care one bit if Indiana loses a few games because of it.  I care far more about the culture of the program and the long term.  When you're a college athlete on a scholarship, the expectations placed on you, and the responsibility given you are far greater than normal college kids.  Some "kid." This cat's 22 1/2 years old.  

Nobody should cover for, apologize for, or excuse this.  He was arrested. 7 weeks after he was suspended.  He tried to run from it.  Tried to let another kid take the bullet for him.  Learned not one thing from his suspension.  Indiana is either a blue blood program or we're just another garbage team that tolerates garbage behavior and allows kids to disrespect the uniform they wear time and time again.   Someone else can have the transfer portal.  And someone else can have Xavier Johnson.  I'm sure Woodson will bring him back and cite Knight's doing so for him.  That's predictable.  But in 2 weeks, Woodson has lost by 30 in the round of 64, lost 4 players and 2 coaches....meanwhile throwing one of THOSE under the bus.  It seems to run in the family. 

If I'm Scott Dolson, I'm thinking long and hard about "institutional control," and calling Mike Woodson on the carpet immediately.

Have at me.  I know it's coming.  Maybe I said what some think.  But I know some will vehemently disagree, and to those I'll point to 22 years of tolerating crap from this program and what do we have to show for it?

I agree with most of this.  Just like Fife, whom you all agreed with, an example and precedent should be made.  

[Chris007]

59 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

I agree with most of this.  Just like Fife, whom you all agreed with, an example and precedent should be made.  

Should have Fife been kicked off the team when he was arrested as a player?

[jk34]

In no way am I defending X, or his lack of judgment, but to convict a young man within 24 hrs of the incident, is what's wrong with society!

There's only a handful(not literally) of people who know the whole story. 

[jk34]

6 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Should have Fife been kicked off the team when he was arrested as a player?

Thank God, none these people are running a major D1 program! 

[Chris007]

6 hours ago, Old Friend said:

I'm not here much anymore, so I couldn't care less if this is popular or not.

You can have the transfer portal.  I've seen enough.  Stewart's trouble and it seems to find him on a regular basis. 

Durr lasted a single season before he bolted.

Johnson makes really bad decisions (which are consistently tolerated) on the floor, and apparently dumber ones off of it.    He was suspended 7 weeks ago.  Didn't learn a thing.  Obviously has no respect for the program, his coaches, or his team mates.  He displayed horrible character trying to change seats with the other kid.

Regarding Woodson's marijuana episode, the ones who admitted to it stayed.  The ones who lied were kicked off.  Johnson essentially tried to lie to a cop.   I see some here saying "he needs some parenting/coaching," etc.  From who?  Woodson?  He clearly doesn't respect Woodson.  Or the kid he tried to throw under the bus.  This isn't a simple "mistake."  I also see here some telling others to stop playing judge and jury....but to those with that stance?  The facts are out.  He was driving 90 MPH on Walnut.  What if he'd hit someone a la Henry Ruggs?   He then tried to evade police and THEN switched seats with another kid trying to cover his a$$.   No.  This is not a "mistake."  It's another error judgement, this time far more dangerous.  It's a disrespectful act toward law enforcement and toward his team.  Nobody's playing judge and jury.  Facts are facts and this will never go to "court."  Xavier will not have his "day" in court.  He was driving 90 MPH on Walnut and evaded police while throwing another kid under the bus.  And "trouble" was in the back seat.  Those facts have been substantively accepted and people are very much allowed to opine on them without the "we live in an innocent until proven guilty" country.  Yes we do.  But if you think this is some Perry Mason TV show where Johnson can get off with a slick lawyer and via technicality, stop watching cop shows.  He IS guilty.

I have seen the race card played.  You know...racist cops who somehow were supposed to know (in the dark and a black car) that the driver was an African American man.  Nope.  That's not the case, either.   No.  This is a kid who's been a loose cannon since he got here,.  Yes he helped win a few basketball games.   He also helped lose a few with bad decisions, and he's proving that's just who he is.  Some can make excuses for him. You can say "give him a break.  He's just a kid who made a mistake."   He played that hand in Chicago.  Not this time.  He needs to go, and I don't care one bit if Indiana loses a few games because of it.  I care far more about the culture of the program and the long term.  When you're a college athlete on a scholarship, the expectations placed on you, and the responsibility given you are far greater than normal college kids.  Some "kid." This cat's 22 1/2 years old.  

Nobody should cover for, apologize for, or excuse this.  He was arrested. 7 weeks after he was suspended.  He tried to run from it.  Tried to let another kid take the bullet for him.  Learned not one thing from his suspension.  Indiana is either a blue blood program or we're just another garbage team that tolerates garbage behavior and allows kids to disrespect the uniform they wear time and time again.   Someone else can have the transfer portal.  And someone else can have Xavier Johnson.  I'm sure Woodson will bring him back and cite Knight's doing so for him.  That's predictable.  But in 2 weeks, Woodson has lost by 30 in the round of 64, lost 4 players and 2 coaches....meanwhile throwing one of THOSE under the bus.  It seems to run in the family. 

If I'm Scott Dolson, I'm thinking long and hard about "institutional control," and calling Mike Woodson on the carpet immediately.

Have at me.  I know it's coming.  Maybe I said what some think.  But I know some will vehemently disagree, and to those I'll point to 22 years of tolerating crap from this program and what do we have to show for it?

A lot to unpack here. First I'm not sure we do know all the facts. Some people who were there are saying another car with a gun was at a stoplight next to X's car, there were some words exchanged or something like that. 

Henry Ruggs was driving 156 and was so drunk he didn't know what happened. X wasn't drunk. Driving 30 and hitting someone can kill them. 

The deputy sheriffs in this town are like barney fifes. They don't have to have any training or education. Do I think the cop knew a black person was driving the car, probably not but he knew it was a college kid who he wanted to mess with. 

I'm not sure this is a Mike Woodson decision, this might be a Scott Dolson, President Whitten, and Woodson decision. We've had some football players make some really bad decisions lately, beating up girlfriend, having pot in the car, and running from the police, none of them were dismissed. 

I'm guessing the reaction from the board is different if this was Miller Kopp. But I understand the get off my lawn pov and everyone gets to have their opinion on this. We all agree it was one of the stupidest things a player has done. 

[Golfman25]

1 minute ago, Chris007 said:

A lot to unpack here. First I'm not sure we do know all the facts. Some people who were there are saying another car with a gun was at a stoplight next to X's car, there were some words exchanged or something like that. 

Henry Ruggs was driving 156 and was so drunk he didn't know what happened. X wasn't drunk. Driving 30 and hitting someone can kill them. 

The deputy sheriffs in this town are like barney fifes. They don't have to have any training or education. Do I think the cop knew a black person was driving the car, probably not but he knew it was a college kid who he wanted to mess with. 

I'm not sure this is a Mike Woodson decision, this might be a Scott Dolson, President Whitten, and Woodson decision. We've had some football players make some really bad decisions lately, beating up girlfriend, having pot in the car, and running from the police, none of them were dismissed. 

I'm guessing the reaction from the board is different if this was Miller Kopp. But I understand the get off my lawn pov and everyone gets to have their opinion on this. We all agree it was one of the stupidest things a player has done. 

If the other car story is true, then why not pull over when the cop lights up?   Sounds like embellishment to me.  

[HoosierAloha]

Where does it end?

- "Just out past curfew, possibly smoking weed, no big deal"

- "Just driving 90 and evading police, the charge will be reduced, no big deal"

When do we stop making excuses for the program? I get that people make mistakes and need to learn from it. When individuals continue to make those decisions it becomes a trend. If anyone believes the only times he's stepped out of line are the times he has been caught I have a bridge to sell you. 

There needs to be a standard on/off the court. I don't think we're close to meeting that.

I know many on here would disagree with anything Old Friend posts. I do believe the respect aspect of this is dead on. If respect is optional from the highest level it won't be met. I'm sure we'll get some social media posts about doing better blah blah blah. Remember actions speak louder than words for most.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

If the other car story is true, then why not pull over when the cop lights up?   Sounds like embellishment to me.  

Smart


Sent from my iPad using BtownBanners mobile app

[Chris007]

Just now, Golfman25 said:

If the other car story is true, then why not pull over when the cop lights up?   Sounds like embellishment to me.  

That's what I'm saying we don't know what happened but you want to convict him 24 hours later. The day where we just take a cop's word for something is long gone. We need to see dashcam footage, we need to see if he has him on radar going 90, or was that just his estimate. Is there bodycam footage? A lot of unknowns here.

[JSHoosier]

1 hour ago, HoosierAloha said:

Where does it end?

- "Just out past curfew, possibly smoking weed, no big deal"

- "Just driving 90 and evading police, the charge will be reduced, no big deal"

When do we stop making excuses for the program? I get that people make mistakes and need to learn from it. When individuals continue to make those decisions it becomes a trend. If anyone believes the only times he's stepped out of line are the times he has been caught I have a bridge to sell you. 

There needs to be a standard on/off the court. I don't think we're close to meeting that.

I know many on here would disagree with anything Old Friend posts. I do believe the respect aspect of this is dead on. If respect is optional from the highest level it won't be met. I'm sure we'll get some social media posts about doing better blah blah blah. Remember actions speak louder than words for most.

Agreed.  A 5th year senior should be making smarter decisions than this and setting better examples.  At some point an example has to be made and a message sent of what's expected.  Going 90 on Walnut, then refusing to stop, then trying to let someone else take the fall isn't your normal speeding ticket.  It's progressively worse decision making.

It's not murder but the line should be drawn well before that point.

[Chris007]

14 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

Agreed.  A 5th year senior should be making smarter decisions than this and setting better examples.  At some point an example has to be made and a message sent of what's expected.  Going 90 on Walnut, then refusing to stop, then trying to let someone else take the fall isn't your normal speeding ticket.  It's progressively worse decision making.

It's not murder but the line should be drawn well before that point.

So are you ok with just the speeding ticket when the other gets dropped?