General Coach Candidate News

[Baltimore Hoosier 986]

4 minutes ago, Feathery said:

To be fair to those who called for his head after year 2 and 3, they were right in that he isn’t the guy for the job. I will give any coach until year 4. It was clear he isn’t the guy this year but those clamoring for it to happen sooner were just ahead of the curve. 

I was vocal about hating this hire so I guess I was ahead of my time. 

[Uspshoosier 46,148]

1 hour ago, Baltimore Hoosier said:

Yeah that looks pretty bad.. not really playing a ‘what’s worse’ game here. Just offering a different opinion. 

Thanks for the different opinion and good to see you posting again.  It’s been a while.  Definitely some bad optics from the outside looking in on the IU program and no matter what happens IU is just in a terrible spot.  No one on the outside is going to feel sorry for them but whichever way they go there will be challenges ahead    
 

2 things came be true at the same time 

1. Archie in 4 years for whatever reason didn’t get things rolling.  Having a losing streak of 4 or more games in each of his 4 years in the B1G is not a good look.  Decline in recruiting, decline in defensive efficiency, lack of shooting in is whole time at IU are all bad looks.  Examples of why a change shouldn’t surprise anyone 

2.  Archie has some some challenges in front of him that have contributed to his lack of success.  Doesn’t excuse all the losing streaks and poor performances but it should be recognized.   As I looked back at the 4 years I’m amazed at the different ways this team has missed the tournament.   

1. they had no shot and didn’t sniff the tournament with no wins against a team that made the tournament that year highlighted by 2 blowout home  losses to ISU and Fort Wayne 

2.  They were in tournament conversation all year.  Had an historic 12 of 13 game losing streak, more injuries then I could count and somehow managed to be one of the first 4 teams out.   Had more Q1 wins then almost every bubble team but had a terrible Q2 record 

3. they were in the tournament picture all year.  Not one time were they ever considered out of the tournament by any of the top bracketologist.  From the games they played at the end of the year even the losses of I remember they were playing some pretty good basketball heading into the tournament.  Then a global pandemic hits and these kids and coach miss out on something  they worked their butt off to achieve 

4. IU was pretty much in the conversation all year until these last 2 weeks and the wheels have completely have fallen off.  Playing a SOS that is top 3 the last I checked during a pandemic where no home fans allowed and only 2 games against teams without a pulse has been a factor this year.  This year their Q1 record is awful but their Q2 record is solid.  Just couldn’t seem to put a complete resume together in a single year.   Very odd to track.  It’s not like IU wasn’t in any of these Q1 games they lost.  They were right there in most of the games until recently 

Whichever way IU goes the optics are going to be bad.   Keep a coach that has under performed in his 4 years or fire a coach with a 10 mil buyout in a global pandemic where he won’t have coached his first true recruiting cycle while they were seniors.   Glad I’m not Dolson 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,708]

I'd take Mack or Enfield. Hell I'd take both. Let's just have the best bench in college basketball. 

[Feathery 4,005]

49 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Thanks for the different opinion and good to see you posting again.  It’s been a while.  Definitely some bad optics from the outside looking in on the IU program and no matter what happens IU is just in a terrible spot.  No one on the outside is going to feel sorry for them but whichever way they go there will be challenges ahead    
 

2 things came be true at the same time 

1. Archie in 4 years for whatever reason didn’t get things rolling.  Having a losing streak of 4 or more games in each of his 4 years in the B1G is not a good look.  Decline in recruiting, decline in defensive efficiency, lack of shooting in is whole time at IU are all bad looks.  Examples of why a change shouldn’t surprise anyone 

2.  Archie has some some challenges in front of him that have contributed to his lack of success.  Doesn’t excuse all the losing streaks and poor performances but it should be recognized.   As I looked back at the 4 years I’m amazed at the different ways this team has missed the tournament.   

1. they had no shot and didn’t sniff the tournament with no wins against a team that made the tournament that year highlighted by 2 blowout home  losses to ISU and Fort Wayne 

2.  They were in tournament conversation all year.  Had an historic 12 of 13 game losing streak, more injuries then I could count and somehow managed to be one of the first 4 teams out.   Had more Q1 wins then almost every bubble team but had a terrible Q2 record 

3. they were in the tournament picture all year.  Not one time were they ever considered out of the tournament by any of the top bracketologist.  From the games they played at the end of the year even the losses of I remember they were playing some pretty good basketball heading into the tournament.  Then a global pandemic hits and these kids and coach miss out on something  they worked their butt off to achieve 

4. IU was pretty much in the conversation all year until these last 2 weeks and the wheels have completely have fallen off.  Playing a SOS that is top 3 the last I checked during a pandemic where no home fans allowed and only 2 games against teams without a pulse has been a factor this year.  This year their Q1 record is awful but their Q2 record is solid.  Just couldn’t seem to put a complete resume together in a single year.   Very odd to track.  It’s not like IU wasn’t in any of these Q1 games they lost.  They were right there in most of the games until recently 

Whichever way IU goes the optics are going to be bad.   Keep a coach that has under performed in his 4 years or fire a coach with a 10 mil buyout in a global pandemic where he won’t have coached his first true recruiting cycle while they were seniors.   Glad I’m not Dolson 

I don’t think there are bad optics at this point if they decide to move on. Legislators at the state house have jokingly talked about finding it in the budget to buy Archie out. Other schools with much higher buyouts have moved on from coaches in football with little to no scorn for making the move. While money could be tight, this is a long term business move that needs to be done for the financial sustainability of the program. You can’t have the fan base not show back up when fans are allowed or have a toxic environment when those that do arrive. Perfect time for a clean break, if the money is there then use it. 

[lillurk 3,763]

The injuries excuse for y2 rings really hollow to me. Look at the box scores from losses at home to Nebraska, at bad NW or Rutgers teams, or the OSU conference tourney loss: IU had everyone (except a freshman Hunter).

[lillurk 3,763]

1 minute ago, lillurk said:

The injuries excuse for y2 rings really hollow to me. Look at the box scores from losses at home to Nebraska, at bad NW or Rutgers teams, or the OSU conference tourney loss: IU had everyone (except a freshman Hunter).

I mean I don’t dispute IU had injuries or was dinged up. But everyone deals with those.

I dispute that some dings and a couple injuries to good-but-not-star freshmen excuse THOSE particular losses

[AKHoosier 6,999]

I'm skeptical Mack is actually interested, but yeah I'd take him for sure.  Maybe he's not a fan of the culture at Louisville or something?  It seems like a leap to go from UL to IU, especially when you're doing pretty well and you haven't been there that long.

He'd give us some pretty positive PR and momentum.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,708]

6 minutes ago, AKHoosier said:

I'm skeptical Mack is actually interested, but yeah I'd take him for sure.  Maybe he's not a fan of the culture at Louisville or something?  It seems like a leap to go from UL to IU, especially when you're doing pretty well and you haven't been there that long.

He'd give us some pretty positive PR and momentum.

I'd say with the penalties that could still come... If he's reached out to us.. he knows what's coming. 

[Stuhoo 81,529]

As much as the first four years have not gone well, I believe it is also relevant that there is very, very little hope that year five will go well either.

If we had big time recruits coming to save the day that would be highly relevant. We do not, and our best player is very likely gone too.

If we stay the course for another year it will very much appear that we are waving the white flag in basketball.

In Indiana.

At Indiana University.

 

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,549]

As much as the first four years have not gone well, I believe it is also relevant that there is very, very little hope that year five will go well either.
If we had big time recruits coming to save the day that would be highly relevant. We do not, and our best player is very likely gone too.
If we stay the course for another year it will very much appear that we are waving the white flag in basketball.
In Indiana.
At Indiana University.
 

Full agree. This has been my stance for a while.

Follow recruiting, and recruiting momentum. It tells the tale within the tale.


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[HoosierHoopster 7,182]

Honestly I've struggled with this.

CAM has clearly failed this season (at least at this point and looking most likely to end the season, but it aint' quite over yet).

The recruiting has been strong until this season. Lander was the #1 ranked PG in his class but was also clearly young and not quite ready coming in, especially defensively which kept him off the floor under CAM (he would've played significantly more under Crean). 

In fairness, and without the idea it's making excuses - it really isn't - losing Brunk at the outset was a major, major loss. Brunk isn't the best player on the team, he was playing either single digit minutes for the most part or less minutes as Race's time grew to end the season, but he was and is both a key big with great energy and hustle, and a floor leader - and we've really missed his on court leadership along with his size and hustle. 

So we're short on bigs (pun intendedP). How would we have done this season with Brunk? Think it's clear we would've been better and probably comfortably in the tourney right now. And then we lose Franklin in the closing stretch? Just peachy.

Yes, injuries happen and how the coach and team responds is important, but man we lack some key depth still (which is also on CAM, in fairness), but you can't just ignore the losses of Brunk and now Franklin and think apples to apples. We're really thin right now in the best conference in the country, of course we're to lose. Sucks.

On the other hand, I've had problems / concerns with CAM's way of limiting the perimeter game from the get go, we haven't been able to spread the floor not because we don't have guys who can shoot but because he devalues the outside game in a 'meta' of college basketball that demands the outside game. It's like a throw back approach and one that has bitten us in the @$$ when we lose Brunk, so back to that, CAM put us in the position of likely losing if something were to happen to a key big because he built the team around an old school front line approach without valuing the perimeter game, and that's entirely on him. So end of the day, he has dug his own proverbial grave.

[hper50 1,269]

Hate to be a buzzkill, but for a combination of the reasons above and the $$, my gut is we retain Archie for a fifth season. I'm tired of thinking about it at this point. Love the conference tourneys, but just want to fast forward and know one way or the other.

 

Edit: @Chris007 ... please tell me I'm wrong

[Class of '66 Old Fart 85,245]

10 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

I like Mack a lot.

I like Enfield...plenty enough.

I do not like Scott Drew.

I have trouble spelling “Belien” (?) and he is way too old. 
 

Horton Hears a Stuhoo!

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,708]

15 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Honestly I've struggled with this.

CAM has clearly failed this season (at least at this point and looking most likely to end the season, but it aint' quite over yet).

The recruiting has been strong until this season. Lander was the #1 ranked PG in his class but was also clearly young and not quite ready coming in, especially defensively which kept him off the floor under CAM (he would've played significantly more under Crean). 

In fairness, and without the idea it's making excuses - it really isn't - losing Brunk at the outset was a major, major loss. Brunk isn't the best player on the team, he was playing either single digit minutes for the most part or less minutes as Race's time grew to end the season, but he was and is both a key big with great energy and hustle, and a floor leader - and we've really missed his on court leadership along with his size and hustle. 

So we're short on bigs (pun intendedP). How would we have done this season with Brunk? Think it's clear we would've been better and probably comfortably in the tourney right now. And then we lose Franklin in the closing stretch? Just peachy.

Yes, injuries happen and how the coach and team responds is important, but man we lack some key depth still (which is also on CAM, in fairness), but you can't just ignore the losses of Brunk and now Franklin and think apples to apples. We're really thin right now in the best conference in the country, of course we're to lose. Sucks.

On the other hand, I've had problems / concerns with CAM's way of limiting the perimeter game from the get go, we haven't been able to spread the floor not because we don't have guys who can shoot but because he devalues the outside game in a 'meta' of college basketball that demands the outside game. It's like a throw back approach and one that has bitten us in the @$$ when we lose Brunk, so back to that, CAM put us in the position of likely losing if something were to happen to a key big because he built the team around an old school front line approach without valuing the perimeter game, and that's entirely on him. So end of the day, he has dug his own proverbial grave.

How would we have done with Brunk? The same. Why? He's not that good. Just a body. Statically, he averaged 6.8 points. TJD averaged 13.5 last season. This year TJD is at 19.1 points. So he basically made up for Brunks absence by himself. I'm not sure why we make such a big deal about his absence. If TJD is that good, it shouldn't matter. We never complained about it with Zeller because we knew he'd be playing most of the game anyway. 

[coonhounds 9,148]

If chris is getting good information and iu has reached out to coaches wouldn't that be a sign they are moving on or is that a common thing?

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[hper50 1,269]

6 minutes ago, coonhounds said:

If chris is getting good information and iu has reached out to coaches wouldn't that be a sign they are moving on or is that a common thing?

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I would think. But maybe we're gauging interest in the event that we get the funding to move on. I would sure hope we would know that by now.... or soon....

[Chris007 44,458]

29 minutes ago, hper50 said:

Hate to be a buzzkill, but for a combination of the reasons above and the $$, my gut is we retain Archie for a fifth season. I'm tired of thinking about it at this point. Love the conference tourneys, but just want to fast forward and know one way or the other.

 

Edit: @Chris007 ... please tell me I'm wrong

The money has been raised if we want to move on.

[MikeRoberts 7,088]

I didn’t realize until reading the last page that there was any debate about whether it was time to move on or not.

 

I thought that 99% of people agree that it isn’t going well and there is no change or improvement in sight and in fact, we seem to be trending downward.

 

he inherited a fringe ncaa tourney team that he crapped the bed with on several games that made it certain we wouldn’t make the tourney. Flip those few games and we are in - point being, we are in almost the same situation in year 4 that we were in when he arrived and there hasn’t been anything to get excited about in between.

 

this has been THE most boring and frustrating 4 years of Indiana basketball in my lifetime. 
 

[hper50 1,269]

I'm sorry but while I agree the effort was better than it's been in the past ... I am just so sick of hearing about "effort" when we've lost 9 in a row and 12 of 13 to our rival. At no point has he said "where we are is unacceptable"

[hper50 1,269]

2 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

The money has been raised if we want to move on.

Good to hear... is that a new development this AM?