They “Retired” Coach Woodson Thread

[Hornsby]

Exactly! Why are so many fans SOOOO content with just making the tournament. 
I realize we're not a Blue Blood program anymore but we're also not Minnesota. Mike Woodson screams mediocrity in every aspect and has for his entire career as a coach. If you can't tell, I'm still very pissed from this decision. 

Just making it and get blown out by 30. The expectations are very low.

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[Hoosierfan2017]

13 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

A down year should include making the tournament, with a 68 team field it's not that big of an accomplishment.

Woodson’s first two seasons are what “down years” should be for IU. Instead, because of how far this program has fallen, they’re viewed as big accomplishments that warrant a $1 million raise. I have no doubt that another first round exit next year will get him a 5th season. 

[sirhoosierlot]

11 minutes ago, IU Prof said:

Reneau seems like a great kid, so I hate to say this, but I wouldn't bring him back. He's not a well-rounded enough player, so you have to recruit a defensive 5 to pair with him, which messes up the offensive flow. I just don't see Reneau playing a big role on a championship team, sadly.

He can't get better in the offseason? 

[8bucks]

10 minutes ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

On a 1-10 scale, how bad is the decision that was made yesterday for the program.

1 being “ relax this is all part of the Chess that Dolson is playing”

10 being “I wish you step back from that ledge my friend”

Honestly we do not have enough information to provide a guess. 
 

There was supposedly a meeting between Dolson and the players and it was suggested that we would have many players deciding to leave IF Woody stayed. If that is true (guess we will find out soon) then that makes keeping him very questionable. However, if MM’s mom is wanting Woody to stay he seems to be one of the most important pieces. 
 

We were reportedly in contact with some coaching candidates. If so, were they interested, using us for a raise or lukewarm?  
 

Who will we add to the roster for next year.  When the story was we would have a lot of transfers, some graduates and maybe an NBA entrant we would have had to be heavy in the portal. Who would want to come if most of our players chose to leave?  Well, if most stay and we have more NIL $ then maybe the staff can legitimately add enough pieces to be strong next year.  
 

Does Dolson have a long term plan that works better next year?  Is there a coach that would be his top target but cannot come till next year?  Either due to more time prove himself, family reasons, buyout $.  
 

There was a lot of “information” shared on this board and I don’t think any of those who shared did so with ill intent but it just seems there was so much more happening that created the opportunity for him to return.  What info do we think we can trust to answer your question?  
 

Was QB working against SD or in tandem?  as KathyC suggested maybe the treatment of Woody was a bigger part in all this. Maybe the additional NIL $ allows him and the staff to improve the squad AND retire next year leaving the program better than he found it. Too many Ifs and maybes to really know 

[Hornsby]

100% except the problem is they play the same position sort of, except MM is more of a four. LM and MM at the 3 and 4? REALLY EXCITING…. But, and this is the huge but, do you believe with Malik entrenched and the obvious need for rim protection that would happen consistently? Because I don’t. Then, we end up where we are again playing someone out of position, but instead of Gallo at the 1 it’s LM at the 2. The overall roster construction just has so many issues, then it gets exacerbated by needing to play two centers because Malik would foul out in 10 minutes consistently playing the 5. 

Tgey might both be good shooters but both are 6'7 wings playing the same spot. Without ware down low there is no rim protection. Mm would be forced to play the 4.

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[Stuhoo]

1 minute ago, OKHOOSIER said:

100% except the problem is they play the same position sort of, except MM is more of a four. LM and MM at the 3 and 4? REALLY EXCITING…. But, and this is the huge but, do you believe with Malik entrenched and the obvious need for rim protection that would happen consistently? Because I don’t. Then, we end up where we are again playing someone out of position, but instead of Gallo at the 1 it’s LM at the 2. The overall roster construction just has so many issues, then it gets exacerbated by needing to play two centers because Malik would foul out in 10 minutes consistently playing the 5. 

Well .. I forgot to mention… we would likely really suck on defense with that front line 

[Home Jersey]

1 minute ago, OKHOOSIER said:

100% except the problem is they play the same position sort of, except MM is more of a four. LM and MM at the 3 and 4? REALLY EXCITING…. But, and this is the huge but, do you believe with Malik entrenched and the obvious need for rim protection that would happen consistently? Because I don’t. Then, we end up where we are again playing someone out of position, but instead of Gallo at the 1 it’s LM at the 2. The overall roster construction just has so many issues, then it gets exacerbated by needing to play two centers because Malik would foul out in 10 minutes consistently playing the 5. 

I hear you on some of these concerns like MM and Reneau being an awkward fit, but LM plays a lot of the 2 at MVA and he plays it pretty darn well. I fully expect we will see him get minutes as a 2 next year. And I don't think we will generally dislike that too much. 

[WayneFleekHoosier]

2 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

I wouldn't be surprised if Liam shoots similarly to how Mack did this year. He is a very, very good 3 point shooter but I would not say he is elite in the same way Grady **** was as a freshman (just my opinion from looking at some of the box scores/handful of games)

I do think he is going to impress in terms of his playmaking and I think he will be solid for a freshman on defense. 

Those two would be a hell of a duo. 

If McNeeley can be Indiana’s Sandfort eventually I’ll be a happy camper.  

Mgbako can shoot that thing.  He’d be a strong sophomore without question. 

[Uspshoosier]

6 minutes ago, mdiu28 said:

Exactly! Why are so many fans SOOOO content with just making the tournament. 

I realize we're not a Blue Blood program anymore but we're also not Minnesota. Mike Woodson screams mediocrity in every aspect and has for his entire career as a coach. If you can't tell, I'm still very pissed from this decision. 

Currently there is only 5 schools with 5 or more consecutive appearances and one of those should have ended during the COVID year because Purdue would have not made it 

[Uspshoosier]

3 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Currently there is only 5 schools with 5 or more consecutive appearances and one of those should have ended during the COVID year because Purdue would have not made it 

6 teams 
 

Kansas-33

Michigan St-25

Gonzaga-24

Purdue-8( shouldn’t be 8 because they wouldn’t of made it in 2020)

Tenn-5

Houston-5 

 

 

[8bucks]

5 minutes ago, sirhoosierlot said:

He can't get better in the offseason? 

He sure got better (offensively) this year so you are right.  He does still make so many dumb fouls and his D is not great but no reason to think he can’t improve some more 

[OKHOOSIER]

2 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

I hear you on some of these concerns like MM and Reneau being an awkward fit, but LM plays a lot of the 2 at MVA and he plays it pretty darn well. I fully expect we will see him get minutes as a 2 next year. And I don't think we will generally dislike that too much. 

I haven’t watched a second of him play live, only highlights and he doesn’t look like a 2 to me. MVA is weird in that they are so ludicrously loaded this year there really isn’t anywhere else to play him. His length and being a freak in HS allows him to guard a 2. It’s less his offense, more about guarding B1G caliber 2 guards. Not saying he can’t, I don’t know, that’s just my read. Mack is a good example, his length and size against average high school players would make up for lack of quickness— that’s been exposed at the D1 level. 

[IU Prof]

13 minutes ago, sirhoosierlot said:

He can't get better in the offseason? 

Anything is possible, but he's two years in and still not particularly serviceable defensively. He's not quick enough to defend 4s well, and too foul prone to play the 5. So barring a huge leap in athleticism or on-court awareness, I'm not sure what you do with him defensively.

[Tom White]

49 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

Operating a sports franchise (in the professional entertainment industry, btw) is entirely different from having expertise / background / strong understanding in the strategic aspects of a sport itself. 

But they also spend years picking the brains of people like Donnie Walsh, Larry Bird and Larry Brown.

[Home Jersey]

33 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Currently there is only 5 schools with 5 or more consecutive appearances and one of those should have ended during the COVID year because Purdue would have not made it 

The conversation a lot of fans really need to have is by looking at themselves in the mirror about their own expectations. 

Thinking that the minimum is going to the tournament every.single.year is just not realistic. Most years, sure. But every program is bound to have **** happen from time to time and just end up with a stinker. Now, that shouldn't happen often... but it happens, such is life. 

If you want to compete for national championships, the expectation I have for what "good" looks like would probably have a lot of overlap with baseball batting stats lol. You're never going to bat 1.000 - you are REALLY good if you bat .300. 

If we're talking about making the tournament, let's view it in 10 year chunks (just to simplify the math because lord knows my IU transcripts will show I ain't great at it)... I think our program batting average - making the tournament - should be around .700-.900. The bottom of that range is how you know the program is on solid foundation. The top is when you're rolling like a machine. 

If we're talking about "competing" for championships, it's probably more like on base percentage. .340 is solid .360 is great, .400+ is exceptional. Defining competing for championships here is the tricky part. To me it means being top 3/4 in B10 and an E8 appearance. If you do that 4 times in a decade, your program is competing at a very high level. Those decades should be cherished. If you can do that 3x a decade, you are IMO at minimum relevant in the CBB landscape... maybe an elite program. 

National championships don't grow on trees... it's like finding a pot of gold. B10 championships, we should win at a higher rate. 

How you experience someone else beating you to the pot of gold (cope with a "down" year in terms of winning championships) is up to you. The main reason I am so unforgiving about Woody having this off year is the fact we've got no recruiting momentum and his age (plus his style of play, I know others will differ there). 

[Home Jersey]

6 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

I know I don’t have any “cred” here but MM has told multiple friends on campus his parents both want him to come back. 

Yes I think it will be his choice if he goes pro or not. Less concerned about transferring but I wouldn't say it's impossible. 

Obviously I know nothing. 

The only thing I am aware of is that early in the season, after the whole TBell incident, when an old friend/former teammate checked in with him, Mack told him all he planned on doing was trying to block out the noise and lock in on the development plan he and Woody had discussed.

That does give me hope he will be back for year 2 but I really doubt he himself even knows right now. I think a sophomore MM could be very special. 

[Class of '66 Old Fart]

1 hour ago, HoosierHuddle said:

Long-time, first time. This is a cool community and I figured I'd start posting...I won't add much, if any, in the way of intelligent conversation but I probably won't anger too many either.

Glad to have you join the party.  Don't worry about adding intelligent conversation.  If you did, you'd be the outlier.   lol

[Magisterium]

3 hours ago, AKHoosier said:

The amount of money about to get spent to maintain IU's mediocrity is going to be unreal.

Sort of like the Pacers, not so coincidentally 

[pumpfake]

3 hours ago, Chris007 said:

Yes sir

Makes 100% sense.  They're accustomed to fielding also-ran teams.

[JSHoosier]

57 minutes ago, mdiu28 said:

Exactly! Why are so many fans SOOOO content with just making the tournament. 

I realize we're not a Blue Blood program anymore but we're also not Minnesota. Mike Woodson screams mediocrity in every aspect and has for his entire career as a coach. If you can't tell, I'm still very pissed from this decision. 

I am too. It was just absurdly stupid. There's no foundation, we're not doing well with HS recruits so we have to have an absolute monster of a portal haul; keep in mind this last portal season was a dud outside of Ware.

He's said he believes college ball is played inside out and that the 3 isn't a point of emphasis for them, that's not a good sign considering the change needed. His Knicks teams had the same problems which isn't a good sign for his ability (or maybe willingness) to learn.

He has friends in the right places and they wanted to protect him, that's it. It was about what was right for Woodson not the Indiana program.