They “Retired” Coach Woodson Thread

[Pagoda]

34 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

Lighten up, Francis.

IF (big if) Buckner hired his friend for a job that he was not qualified for, paid him over $15M over the course of the employment AND got any kind of kickback for the deed, he needs  to be held accountable.

I can't believe that any of that is actually what happened, and I was merely responding to the speculation... 

Time to climb down off of that high horse... it's making you dizzy.

I do wonder if Woody having his money managed by Quinn’s wealth management firm was disclosed.  Not a crime, but could be a violation of university policy.

I don’t know if Woody is a client, but I would be shocked if he wasn’t.

Unfortunately, this probably won’t amount to much.  Our best hope is Scott gaining political power and getting Woody and his toxic cronies out of IU.

[steubenhoosier]

No schtick.

You guys are hilarious.

Make a disagreeing comment and the wagons start circling.

If you read my posts, I wasn’t defending QB or CMW. But this has devolved into character attacking, which I have mentioned previously.

 

[Pagoda]

Woodson appears to have poor character.  What are people supposed to say?

[IUFAN1976]

37 minutes ago, steubenhoosier said:

No schtick.

You guys are hilarious.

Make a disagreeing comment and the wagons start circling.

If you read my posts, I wasn’t defending QB or CMW. But this has devolved into character attacking, which I have mentioned previously.

 

Please drop the C in front of MW because he hasn’t earned it.  What he does ain’t coaching! 

[IUFAN1976]

1 hour ago, AZ Hoosier said:

Lighten up, Francis.

IF (big if) Buckner hired his friend for a job that he was not qualified for, paid him over $15M over the course of the employment AND got any kind of kickback for the deed, he needs  to be held accountable.

I can't believe that any of that is actually what happened, and I was merely responding to the speculation... 

Time to climb down off of that high horse... it's making you dizzy.

The air must be pretty thin up there on that high horse!  I think his nose is bleeding too!

[OKHOOSIER]

35 minutes ago, steubenhoosier said:

No schtick.

You guys are hilarious.

Make a disagreeing comment and the wagons start circling.

If you read my posts, I wasn’t defending QB or CMW. But this has devolved into character attacking, which I have mentioned previously.

 

Asking a bunch of silly questions isn’t disagreeing, it’s being purposely obtuse when he was clearly just joking around. People reacted to your schtick of being the comment police, it’s happened over and over and over: hence: schtick. No one needs or wants you to be the moral barometer of this thread. Disagree with points and opinions, not silly questions with feigned pearl clutching and people won’t react. 

[Hoosierfan2017]

Steuben throws on his cape each morning and rushes to the internet to defend Medicore Mike from all the bullies. Very honorable of him! 

[iu eyedoc]

I imagine @steubenhoosier fashions himself something like this :

 

 

 

[go iu bb]

2 hours ago, steubenhoosier said:

Why?

Why would you want to ruin someone else’s life over this?

Have him resign, sure. Oust him from the position, fine. Bring charges against him, for what purpose?

Your statement says a lot more about you than who you are criticizing.

 

So an illegal activity such as nepotism at a state university is ok as long as it's done by a former basketball star and includes hiring another former basketball star? That's what makes corruption acceptable in your books? That says a lot about you.

That said, since Woodson has previous coaching experience, it's probably not enough to bring charges but it's obviously nepotism. The other moves made at the time of the hiring show that the AD who was forced to hire him had much confidence.

[Stuhoo]

26 minutes ago, go iu bb said:

 

So an illegal activity such as nepotism at a state university is ok as long as it's done by a former basketball star and includes hiring another former basketball star? That's what makes corruption acceptable in your books? That says a lot about you.

That said, since Woodson has previous coaching experience, it's probably not enough to bring charges but it's obviously nepotism. The other moves made at the time of the hiring show that the AD who was forced to hire him had much confidence.

I assure you that there is no criminal statute called “nepotism.”

 It can be merely “frowned upon,” or at most can be an administrative statute ethics violation subject to a fine.

[IUFAN1976]

4 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

I assure you that there is no criminal statute called “nepotism.”

 It can be merely “frowned upon,” or at most can be an administrative statute ethics violation subject to a fine.

I agree, but definitely is morally and ethically wrong!

[go iu bb]

2 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

I assure you that there is no criminal statute called “nepotism.”

 It can be merely “frowned upon,” or at most can be an administrative statute ethics violation subject to a fine.

I went and looked and the laws state relatives. So I guess they're clear of any actual crime. By the way, it is actually called nepotism.

42 IAC 1-5-15 Nepotism

Nepotism restrictions are set forth in IC 4-2-6-16.

1. This chapter does not prohibit the continuation of a job assignment that existed on July 1, 2012.
2. As used in this section, "employed" refers to all employment, including full-time, part-time, temporary, intermittent, or hourly.  The term includes service as a state officer or special state appointee.
3. An individual employed in an agency may not hire a relative.
4. Except as provided in subsection (e), an individual may not be employed in the same agency in which an individual's relative is the appointing authority.
5. An individual may be employed in the same agency in which the individual's relative is the appointing authority, if the individual has been employed in the same agency for at least twelve (12) consecutive months immediately preceding the date the individual's relative becomes the appointing authority.
6. Except as provided in subsection (e), an individual may not be placed in a relative's direct line of supervision.
7. An individual employed in an agency may not contract with or supervise the work of a business entity of which a relative is a partner, executive officer, or sole proprietor.
8. Any person within an agency who knowingly participates in a violation of this chapter is subject to the penalties set forth in section 12 of this chapter.

IU, however, does prohibit even the hiring of friends although that isn't a law.

Using his power to force the hiring of a friend and then to retain that friend when it's obvious he isn't up to the job is nepotism and looks like a corrupt act to me. But I guess it's ok since it's former star basketball players.

[Hoosierfan2017]

the King of Indiana’s offense is definitely criminal. 

[Home Jersey]

My understanding has been that tax-payer money is a relatively small portion of athletic department budgets/not necessarily allocated toward coaching salaries in most cases. Wanted to verify that and came across this article from December 2022. 

Relevant excerpt: 

Pascrell Releases Report on College Coaching Salaries

Findings show public and private schools lavish massive deals while enjoying federal tax exemptions

WASHINGTON, DC – U.S. Rep. Bill Pascrell, Jr. (D-NJ-09), the Chairman of the House Ways and Means Subcommittee on Oversight, today released an official committee report detailing the findings of Pascrell’s year-long investigation into exorbitant college coaching contracts given by schools which enjoy federal tax benefits.

“With the college football regular season reaching a dramatic conclusion this weekend, all Americans should be reminded of the enormous scope of exorbitant coaching contracts by so many of these schools,” said Chairman Pascrell. “This official report from the Ways and Means Committee lays out all our findings from the past year into colossal college coaching contracts. Americans should care deeply about these excessive salaries that our federal tax code is helping to fund. These schools and others across our nation are giving hundreds of millions of dollars to coaches while taking federal tax exemption. The answers from the schools lay out, clearly, that universities from coast to coast are not always behaving in the best interests of their students or the American taxpayers.”

Pascrell concluded, “As Congress’s oldest, most storied and powerful committee, it is incumbent upon the Ways and Means Committee to now turn our focus to remedies to our tax code. Universities’ tax-exempt status is an important pillar of our higher education system, but it is not a blank check from taxpayers to dole out gargantuan coaching contracts with lavish benefits. The committee should consider reforming the excise tax on salaries over one million to apply to all colleges and universities. This would close a loophole that may enable some state universities to avoid the tax. It is also worth exploring whether profitable, multimillion dollar college athletics programs should be subject to the Unrelated Business Income Tax. We must consider whether tax-exempt educational activities and lucrative athletics programs should be treated differently. Certainly we can see that American students and American taxpayers deserve better.”

Pascrell went on to send a bunch of universities inquiries about various coaching contracts. 

Unfortunately, Pascrell has since passed away. I am trying to find the report referenced in the article. 

This country has way bigger fish to fry than large coaching salaries IMO. 

But the conflict of interests and ethical rot we've observed recently, has created this toxicity around the program.

I guess a bloodthirsty lawyer could try to make a case but in reality there's 0 chance this gets looked at, so moot point IMO.

[LIHoosier]

The above is why the NCAA still exists and is its primary purpose; to keep collegiate athletic departments off the books.

[Stuhoo]

1 hour ago, go iu bb said:

I went and looked and the laws state relatives. So I guess they're clear of any actual crime. By the way, it is actually called nepotism.

42 IAC 1-5-15 Nepotism

Nepotism restrictions are set forth in IC 4-2-6-16.

1. This chapter does not prohibit the continuation of a job assignment that existed on July 1, 2012.
2. As used in this section, "employed" refers to all employment, including full-time, part-time, temporary, intermittent, or hourly.  The term includes service as a state officer or special state appointee.
3. An individual employed in an agency may not hire a relative.
4. Except as provided in subsection (e), an individual may not be employed in the same agency in which an individual's relative is the appointing authority.
5. An individual may be employed in the same agency in which the individual's relative is the appointing authority, if the individual has been employed in the same agency for at least twelve (12) consecutive months immediately preceding the date the individual's relative becomes the appointing authority.
6. Except as provided in subsection (e), an individual may not be placed in a relative's direct line of supervision.
7. An individual employed in an agency may not contract with or supervise the work of a business entity of which a relative is a partner, executive officer, or sole proprietor.
8. Any person within an agency who knowingly participates in a violation of this chapter is subject to the penalties set forth in section 12 of this chapter.

IU, however, does prohibit even the hiring of friends although that isn't a law.

Using his power to force the hiring of a friend and then to retain that friend when it's obvious he isn't up to the job is nepotism and looks like a corrupt act to me. But I guess it's ok since it's former star basketball players.

There ya go. Most states have an administrative statutory code of ethics with fines for violations.

[Brass Cannon]

Let’s not forget that part of the grift was to then get his kid hired. 

[ap2345]

All this nepotism talk is fun but the reality is this. Woodson is starting to have major donors turn on him. Dolson is already out on him. His days are numbered.

[go iu bb]

8 minutes ago, ap2345 said:

All this nepotism talk is fun but the reality is this. Woodson is starting to have major donors turn on him. Dolson is already out on him. His days are numbered.

Good to hear. These are the updates we want.

AD with more cachet than last year is against him, the person behind getting him hired and retained is a lame duck, and the donors are turning on him after wasting money this year. 

I hope Dolson makes a good hire after the season.

[Deserthoozier]

Here’s where I’m at…

Woody was a poor choice at the time of hire due to lack of college ball experience specifically, and general coaching success more broadly. While many were surprised and questioned it at the time, a big majority, myself included, were willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. NBA recycles, especially if alum, were certainly more in vogue at the time. Legit arguments were made about the appeal of modern NBA style as well as NBA connections that both would be strong recruiting tools. It was fairly assumed from a coaching perspective that he at least understood, and therefore should be able to execute a fast flowing modern NBA style. And, if nothing else, he certainly was an IU guy!
 

After 3 years… mixed recruiting success, mixed player development, and mixed on court success…the body of work was established. The style of play, recruiting , understanding of the modern college game and just flat out ‘energy’ all was substantially lacking - as was on court success. Nevertheless, the admin and stakeholders determined Woody was going to get a 4th year…with top NIL.  While internal politics can be understood, this decision insulted many in one of the most hyper engaged fan bases.  After 3 yrs, there was plenty of resume to see that the decision didn’t pass the eye and smell test. It was the equivalent of running Joe Biden again, when his inability to perform the job was clear to an electorate on all sides. (Not a political statement at all, just statement of obvious).

Thus, a marginally competent Woody was forced on a fan base desperate for hope and success. Gaslighting, and even a bit of head coach generated hostility, ensued - creating more tension. NIL gave IU the ability to kill it in the portal…and getting talent was a success. Style of play issues were acknowledged, blamed on past team personnel, and promised to be changed (again).

Folks came into this season, hopeful with the talent haul, and even optimistic that perhaps MW was committed to the hard work change requires — perhaps out of embarrassment, if nothing else. Early buy game eye tests raised questions - team and coaching has looked disconnected. Wheels fell off at the only preseason opportunity to gain quality wins in Atlantis. Games after Atlantis have only shown continued dysfunction. Coach statements continue to lack acknowledgement of issues, accountability and insight. “Hump” “work harder” “make shots” “young team”. 
 

So, instead of being proactive and managing the obvious, we’ve been forced to endure another mid at best season, with a boatload of talent, but sorely lacking in coaching…perhaps b/c ‘the last guy got 4 yrs, so MW will too’.  But no worries, we’ve had a decade of it prior…so what’s making folks suffer through one more year! Thing is, it’s obvious the emperor has no clothes, the gaslighting has expended any goodwill, and the further you sink it and push away from past successes…the more support you lose, and fail to develop every year. There’s a fair reason to be resentful. 

10+ years of mid performance for a program with our resources, history and fan commitment isn’t acceptable. It’s not the fans…admin owns accountability! 

Fire Mike Woodson!