* Empire Classic * Indiana vs. UCONN Sunday 11/19/2023 1 pm ESPN @MSG

[TheWatShot]

9 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

One concern I have is how much difference do people really think we'll see with McNeeley at the 3? We have a 5* there now that was supposed to be a good shooter and he's playing the Miller Kopp role. Even if he doesn't look lost I don't see him getting many more 3 attempts since Woodson has said that's not really an emphasis of his. 

I'm curious what Woodson's pitch was to him, or what he would say to any guard. He can't possibly think this offense looks appealing to anybody we're recruiting. 

[JSHoosier]

13 minutes ago, TheWatShot said:

I'm curious what Woodson's pitch was to him, or what he would say to any guard. He can't possibly think this offense looks appealing to anybody we're recruiting. 

NBA style offense, but he forgets to mention it's from 20 years ago; understandable at his age.

[Uspshoosier]

38 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

The rebounding issues are a coaching problem.  We had the same problem last year, it's not just this game or this year.

One concern I have is how much difference do people really think we'll see with McNeeley at the 3? We have a 5* there now that was supposed to be a good shooter and he's playing the Miller Kopp role. Even if he doesn't look lost I don't see him getting many more 3 attempts since Woodson has said that's not really an emphasis of his. 

Mcneeleys natural position is a 3 and has played the 3 in high school.  MM natural position is a 4 but playing the 3.  Talking heads, poster here, poster at other places have been worried about the roster construction and lack of playing making and shot making wings and guards since the summer.   Ius roster construction this year isn’t ideal for winning games in today’s college basketball.  It’s just not.    Someone asked Hurley about how to guard IU.   Paint, Paint, Paint paraphrasing but said they don’t normally play defense they way they did today but did today because IU doesn’t use the 3 as a weapon or at least not yet.  Been that way for a couple years now.    IU has 2 primary ball handlers on the whole roster and one is a true freshman that was recruited for the future meaning not expected to produce at a high level right off the bat.   

2 primary ball handlers pg

3 shooting guards with one that could be a secondary ball handler and could argue needs to be a 3 and the other a sophomore that got limited minutes last year and one that is basically treated like a walk-on 

4 PF with 2 and possibly 3 wanting to play the 3 

2 centers 

1 CG that’s hurt and not expected to play 

1 open scholly

not a formula for winning games in 2023 especially against a final 4 caliber team in the 4th game of the year.    Can they improve and make run later in the year?  Of course but the roster construction makes the margin of error smaller 
 

[JSHoosier]

35 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Mcneeleys natural position is a 3 and has played the 3 in high school.  MM natural position is a 4 but playing the 3.  Talking heads, poster here, poster at other places have been worried about the roster construction and lack of playing making and shot making wings and guards since the summer.   Ius roster construction this year isn’t ideal for winning games in today’s college basketball.  It’s just not.    Someone asked Hurley about how to guard IU.   Paint, Paint, Paint paraphrasing but said they don’t normally play defense they way they did today but did today because IU doesn’t use the 3 as a weapon or at least not yet.  Been that way for a couple years now.    IU has 2 primary ball handlers on the whole roster and one is a true freshman that was recruited for the future meaning not expected to produce at a high level right off the bat.   

2 primary ball handlers pg

3 shooting guards with one that could be a secondary ball handler and could argue needs to be a 3 and the other a sophomore that got limited minutes last year and one that is basically treated like a walk-on 

4 PF with 2 and possibly 3 wanting to play the 3 

2 centers 

1 CG that’s hurt and not expected to play 

1 open scholly

not a formula for winning games in 2023 especially against a final 4 caliber team in the 4th game of the year.    Can they improve and make run later in the year?  Of course but the roster construction makes the margin of error smaller 
 

I'm not debating that it's not a roster for modern basketball.  It's not like they just walked into this and have to deal with it though, they pursued these players and they built this roster. The roster construction falls squarely on the staff.  The results, or lack there of, should be directly on them.  That's also why they shouldn't get any slack if we miss the tournament.

[Eagle’s Rug]

7 hours ago, Ngw7183 said:

Again, his D isn’t that bad and he doesn’t get the ball on offense. You know, the Miller Kopp role.

He’s the worst team defensive player I have seen.  He looks to be a huge recruiting miss. Stiff, unathletic, can’t handle the ball.  But the defense is inexcusable.

[IUFAN1976]

I wonder where Mgbako’s draft stock now?  My guess, he’s fallen out of the draft.  He could spend 4 years here and he still wouldn’t be a good defensive player.  
 

I can say this, he can shoot free throws well!

[JSHoosier]

UCONN just got another open 3.

This defense is a mess and we do not box out and attack the boards which was a problem last year.  Gunn played hard on defense but doesn't provide much offensively.  No one shoots from deep. Mgbako is lost right now, if they're going to keep playing him at the 3 they have to figure out how to get him going.

This is the roster they built.  Woodson may say he wants to play outside but he built roster to play through the post. He and the staff owns it, so they have to figure it out.

[str8baller]

8 hours ago, Uspshoosier said:

Mcneeleys natural position is a 3 and has played the 3 in high school.  MM natural position is a 4 but playing the 3.  Talking heads, poster here, poster at other places have been worried about the roster construction and lack of playing making and shot making wings and guards since the summer.   Ius roster construction this year isn’t ideal for winning games in today’s college basketball.  It’s just not.    Someone asked Hurley about how to guard IU.   Paint, Paint, Paint paraphrasing but said they don’t normally play defense they way they did today but did today because IU doesn’t use the 3 as a weapon or at least not yet.  Been that way for a couple years now.    IU has 2 primary ball handlers on the whole roster and one is a true freshman that was recruited for the future meaning not expected to produce at a high level right off the bat.   

2 primary ball handlers pg

3 shooting guards with one that could be a secondary ball handler and could argue needs to be a 3 and the other a sophomore that got limited minutes last year and one that is basically treated like a walk-on 

4 PF with 2 and possibly 3 wanting to play the 3 

2 centers 

1 CG that’s hurt and not expected to play 

1 open scholly

not a formula for winning games in 2023 especially against a final 4 caliber team in the 4th game of the year.    Can they improve and make run later in the year?  Of course but the roster construction makes the margin of error smaller 
 

I think this is well said, and some posters had been alluding to similar things summer. I was hoping for the best.  
 

I think one thing I would say in @JSHoosiers favor is that although that roster construction is not ideal, it really shouldn’t lack for rebounding prowess. If anything playing multiple bigs and senior guards, one would think it would be a strength. The fact that we’re bad in that area is concerning. 

[Stuhoo]

17 minutes ago, str8baller said:

I think this is well said, and some posters had been alluding to similar things summer. I was hoping for the best.  
 

I think one thing I would say in @JSHoosiers favor is that although that roster construction is not ideal, it really shouldn’t lack for rebounding prowess. If anything playing multiple bigs and senior guards, one would think it would be a strength. The fact that we’re bad in that area is concerning. 

X is our most physical guard. For yesterday, him playing only 15 minutes sure as hell didn't help any of this. That's on him btw.

For me? X, Gallo, Gunn, Malik, Ware.

Backed up by Cupps, Mgbako, Sparks. Not sure why Sparks gets grief - I don't care if he's not skilled; he comes in and beats people up.

Trim Banks and Walker out of the rotation for now.

[Home Jersey]

7 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

X is our most physical guard. For yesterday, him playing only 15 minutes sure as hell didn't help any of this. That's on him btw.

For me? X, Gallo, Gunn, Malik, Ware.

Backed up by Cupps, Mgbako, Sparks.

Trim Banks and Walker out of the rotation for now.

That very well might be this team's highest ceiling starting 5. Gunn has been showing a lot to like in the last two games. Really like the idea especially if he can start knocking down some shots. 

Maybe Mack has an easier time adjusting coming off the bench. It's worth shaking things up. Seems we won't play him at the 4, at least not for now... I'd say keep Banks in the rotation for spot minutes too. Wish we had another guard, but the roster is what it is at this point.

I'm looking forward to seeing what they look like in January. 

[Chris007]

X, Trey, Cupps, and Gunn getting 3 rebounds, and 3 assists combined is not good. We're not getting anything from our guards right now. 

[Hoosier987]

10 hours ago, Hornsby said:

Mm may figure it out I'm just perplexed we could get find one portal guard better than gunn.

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Certainly agreed. It's very frustrating. We could've had a thousands of guards literally crawl to Btown to play. Again, would take one or two from each team we've played this year over the Walker transfer.

[Hoosier987]

10 hours ago, JSHoosier said:

The rebounding issues are a coaching problem.  We had the same problem last year, it's not just this game or this year.

One concern I have is how much difference do people really think we'll see with McNeeley at the 3? We have a 5* there now that was supposed to be a good shooter and he's playing the Miller Kopp role. Even if he doesn't look lost I don't see him getting many more 3 attempts since Woodson has said that's not really an emphasis of his. 

This has entered my mind as well...We need to run more plays for MM and next for McNeeley. No more "Miller Kopp standing in the corner" role to try and create space for an already clustered paint.

[Hoosier987]

55 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

X is our most physical guard. For yesterday, him playing only 15 minutes sure as hell didn't help any of this. That's on him btw.

For me? X, Gallo, Gunn, Malik, Ware.

Backed up by Cupps, Mgbako, Sparks. Not sure why Sparks gets grief - I don't care if he's not skilled; he comes in and beats people up.

Trim Banks and Walker out of the rotation for now.

8 man rotation is right with this team. There's no reason to go further unless there's foul trouble or an injury.

[JSHoosier]

25 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

X, Trey, Cupps, and Gunn getting 3 rebounds, and 3 assists combined is not good. We're not getting anything from our guards right now. 

Yeah, Johnson and Galloway need to get in gear. We needed Gunn to step up in a big way, he might be getting a little more comfortable but not where he needs to be.

Ware can't keep pulling that disappearing act either.

[Uspshoosier]

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

X is our most physical guard. For yesterday, him playing only 15 minutes sure as hell didn't help any of this. That's on him btw.

For me? X, Gallo, Gunn, Malik, Ware.

Backed up by Cupps, Mgbako, Sparks. Not sure why Sparks gets grief - I don't care if he's not skilled; he comes in and beats people up.

Trim Banks and Walker out of the rotation for now.

For me X, Cupps, Trey, Malik, Ware and i would play X as close to 40 min as possible.  My thing is I want 2 primary ball handlers on the court together as much as possible.   Mgbako, Gunn with heavy minutes as well with Sparks giving Ware relief.  Got to get creative moving people around within that rotation to give people blows.  

[realTomCrean]

6 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

Yeah, Johnson and Galloway need to get in gear. We needed Gunn to step up in a big way, he might be getting a little more comfortable but not where he needs to be.

Ware can't keep pulling that disappearing act either.

Even if they're not scoring 16ppg, having a senior be able to calm an offense down and successfully get to his spot at end of shot clock is critical in CBB. Johnson has been my favorite player for the last 2 years but damn he has to shoot the rock with our spacing issues. Same can be said for Gallo - get some shots up! 

The sky isn't falling yet. Maybe getting embarrassed is what will kick them into gear. 

[Hovadipo]

18 minutes ago, realTomCrean said:

The sky isn't falling yet. Maybe getting embarrassed is what will kick them into gear. 

Agree. Someone said it yesterday...today's response will be extremely telling. I'm optimistic that we come out fired up, personally.

[maharkn]

Gun can't shoot but showed some ability to play defense. Should probably start him over Mgbako today. Might light a fire under mgbako

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[DChoosier]

6 hours ago, Redleader said:

He’s the worst team defensive player I have seen.  He looks to be a huge recruiting miss. Stiff, unathletic, can’t handle the ball.  But the defense is inexcusable.

Stiff is a good description.
His movements/flow look freshman year Todd Lindeman stiff on defense, getting into his shooting motion, going for boards and loose balls etc. You can tell he is a good shooter from his FT stroke but he looks stiff/uncomfortable when he is in the process of getting into position to shoot and starting the shooting motion in the open court. Surely that wasn’t the case for him in HS ???