2022-2023 IUBB Roster Projection

[Chris007]

4 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I have had a fantastic history with DDs, I'll have you know. 

Now that’s funny. Haha

[RaceToTheTop]

11 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I have had a fantastic history with DDs, I'll have you know. 

I once knew a girl who changed her name from Adam Ahlfeld to De'ron Davis, if you know what I mean.

[Chris007]

4 hours ago, DWB said:

And if Woody cuts Leal, what does that do to his recruiting efforts within the state? Kick off a Mr Basketball, for a "possible" slightly better recruit that won't get that many more minutes than Leal would anyway? Might be a bitter pill for HS coaches to swallow and still support IU's recruiting efforts (this point was made by Rabjohns).

If we’re winning then high school coaches would be dumb not to send players to IU. Really how much influence does HS coaches really have? Woody is trying to be elite. He didn’t recruit Leal, and if Leal was from Bloomington, MN no one would expect him to be at IU. His offers were IU & Stanford if I remember correctly.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

58 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

If we’re winning then high school coaches would be dumb not to send players to IU. Really how much influence does HS coaches really have? Woody is trying to be elite. He didn’t recruit Leal, and if Leal was from Bloomington, MN no one would expect him to be at IU. His offers were IU & Stanford if I remember correctly.

True but still don’t like it, assuming Leal is ok with his position as 12-13th man.  Only going to play 8-10.  So you remove 12-13 guy, and if DD gets starter minutes, then another guy gets bumped out of rotation so in effect, 1 addition dramatically effects 2 guys unfairly IMO.  
 

idk. Make this move at the beginning like (Rob, Durr, Parker, Lander) and it looks so much better.  Optics matter.  
 

at this point, Leal, Kopp, Duncomb, any of the three will look crummy. 
 

is it too early to use Crean’s (he failed flunked out) excuse?  Lol. 
 

im all for talent acquisition but the PR spin on this one will be delicate and will stench may last a while to the fans. Hopefully not. I hope I’m overreacting. 

[Chris007]

1 minute ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

True but still don’t like it, assuming Leal is ok with his position as 12-13th man.  Only going to play 8-10.  So you remove 12-13 guy, and if DD gets starter minutes, then another guy gets bumped out of rotation so in effect, 1 addition dramatically effects 2 guys unfairly IMO.  
 

idk. Make this move at the beginning like (Rob, Durr, Parker, Lander) and it looks so much better.  Optics matter.  
 

at this point, Leal, Kopp, Duncomb, any of the three will look crummy. 
 

is it too early to use Crean’s (he failed flunked out) excuse?  Lol. 
 

im all for talent acquisition but the PR spin on this one will be delicate and will stench may last a while to the fans. Hopefully not. I hope I’m overreacting. 

But can you deny it’s not a talent upgrade? A defensive player of the year your adding who shoots close to Kopp. Our defense gets better and so does our offense with everyone coming back. Plus it’s Kopp getting less minutes. I think we find a way for Leal to still be at IU.

[Hippopotamo]

@Chris007 so would you say Leal is gone if we get Dennis?

[RaceToTheTop]

1 hour ago, Chris007 said:

If we’re winning then high school coaches would be dumb not to send players to IU. Really how much influence does HS coaches really have? Woody is trying to be elite. He didn’t recruit Leal, and if Leal was from Bloomington, MN no one would expect him to be at IU. His offers were IU & Stanford if I remember correctly.

And Iowa and Northwestern....it's not like he lacked offers.  And I'm sure there were several others that would have offered except it was pretty much assumed he was going to IU.  Kids that are 150ish won't lack offers.

We can support Woodson and want to be elite without approving of someone getting pushed out.  They aren't mutually exclusive.  Tom Crean had a successful middle of his IU tenure.  Doesn't mean we had to like the way that Ron Patterson and several others were treated.  Guys like Dexter Dennis and McNeil aren't guys who make you elite anyway, they just make you slightly better.  

[jonz44]

 
McNeil has a high school sweetheart fiancé. Not saying that will prevent him from having a lot of fun, but that does change the dynamic a little.
 

But does McNeil have a high school side chick? A man has to cover all their bases...js!

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[RaceToTheTop]

3 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

But can you deny it’s not a talent upgrade? A defensive player of the year your adding who shoots close to Kopp. Our defense gets better and so does our offense with everyone coming back. Plus it’s Kopp getting less minutes. I think we find a way for Leal to still be at IU.

So let Kopp move on if Dennis is an upgrade.  Even if Leal doesn't play a minute, should we really be investing time with Kopp at a wing when it when those minutes would likely be better spent on Bates and Galloway (and this is not even getting into the JG at a wing argument)?

[Chris007]

6 minutes ago, Hippopotamo said:

@Chris007 so would you say Leal is gone if we get Dennis?

No I’m not sure 100% about that. I’m under the impression they are trying to figure out a way for Leal to stay just not on scholarship.

[Chris007]

2 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

So let Kopp move on if Dennis is an upgrade.  Even if Leal doesn't play a minute, should we really be investing time with Kopp at a wing when it when those minutes would likely be better spent on Bates and Galloway (and this is not even getting into the JG at a wing argument)?

I’m all for Kopp moving on. 

[JerryYeagley23]

11 minutes ago, Hippopotamo said:

@Chris007 so would you say Leal is gone if we get Dennis?

No. 

[RaceToTheTop]

Just now, Chris007 said:

I’m all for Kopp moving on. 

What I have advocated for is that once a player has played four years, the school IMO does not owe the player anything beyond that and that the ability to continue playing after that is not a given.  In terms of Leal being from Bloomington.....I think that is irrelevant and I couldn't care less. It's the potential of pushing someone out the door who was brought in, was the first to say they were committed to the school when the previous coach was fired, was one of the players who didn't nearly screw the team out of an NCAA appearance by skipping curfew in Chicago, and has been nothing but a good team mate.

[cthomas]

1 minute ago, RaceToTheTop said:

What I have advocated for is that once a player has played four years, the school IMO does not owe the player anything beyond that and that the ability to continue playing after that is not a given.  In terms of Leal being from Bloomington.....I think that is irrelevant and I couldn't care less. It's the potential of pushing someone out the door who was brought in, was the first to say they were committed to the school when the previous coach was fired, was one of the players who didn't nearly screw the team out of an NCAA appearance by skipping curfew in Chicago, and has been nothing but a good team mate.

This is my point. I know in the corporate world being a good/nice guy gets you absolutely nothing. But these are kids who commit to a school out of high school and then stay committed through a coaching change. Leal has the ability to play a lot of places. He wants to play here. I don't want IU to turn into just another place where integrity doesn't matter. Where the next better thing is all we care about. Admittedly, I'm a little old school in my thinking. If this can be worked out in a mutually beneficial manner, then I'm OK with it. Otherwise, we're just another school that uses kids and throws them away.

[iuhoosierfan90]

I know there is a way for a scholarship athlete to reduce their scholarship and pay their own way,  It would require signing paperwork etc but 100% legit.  Now I don't know about adding in an academic scholarship if the player wasn't on an academic scholarship initially.  But it is not a bad thing to have "culture" players who love IU, work hard, have a sense of the community and if they're willing to do all of that work and play limited minutes it does give some players food for thought about attitude etc.  I would personally love to have one or two of those type of players on my team.  

[IU - Kaulie]

6 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

True but still don’t like it, assuming Leal is ok with his position as 12-13th man.  Only going to play 8-10.  So you remove 12-13 guy, and if DD gets starter minutes, then another guy gets bumped out of rotation so in effect, 1 addition dramatically effects 2 guys unfairly IMO.  
 

idk. Make this move at the beginning like (Rob, Durr, Parker, Lander) and it looks so much better.  Optics matter.  
 

at this point, Leal, Kopp, Duncomb, any of the three will look crummy. 
 

is it too early to use Crean’s (he failed flunked out) excuse?  Lol. 
 

im all for talent acquisition but the PR spin on this one will be delicate and will stench may last a while to the fans. Hopefully not. I hope I’m overreacting. 

I don’t like it either.

Leal is a good kid and he doesn’t see himself as a 12-13th man.  He sees 3 more years here and wants to contribute and is going to put the time and work in and is committed to getting better.

I don’t want to see Leal go anywhere or Kopp either for that matter.

[IU - Kaulie]

6 hours ago, Chris007 said:

But can you deny it’s not a talent upgrade? A defensive player of the year your adding who shoots close to Kopp. Our defense gets better and so does our offense with everyone coming back. Plus it’s Kopp getting less minutes. I think we find a way for Leal to still be at IU.

How big of an upgrade is it?  Leal has 3 more years here and keeps getting better.  I thought he should have been playing a lot more this season at the expense of Parker.  I thought his play earned it and I think he finds a role going forward.

I know I keep saying it but I like someone that doesn’t see himself as a cheerleader and wants to play and is going to put in the work to keep getting better and contribute.

I’m not in favor of ‘pushing’ anyone out.  If that were to happen though I don’t want that to be Leal (or Kopp).

[HoosierInParadise]

I don't understand why this would be the "PR nightmare" some are making this out to be. Even if Leal was creaned and kicked off the team, the headlines would be about how our roster was further upgraded and solidified as a Big Ten contender. This would be about the same level of overreaction on media perception that there was when Dane Fife was let go.

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[triple]

1 hour ago, IU - Kaulie said:

How big of an upgrade is it? 

In my opinion Woody only gets one shot to compete with the big boys.  Even just one more year of being a mid-pack conference team will likely put a cap on his tenure at IU.  It's not just about the merits of one guy versus another.  He's got to show notable progress on the court to sustain his progress on the recruiting trail.  I hope this somehow works out well for all involved. But I think he would be crazy not to pursue a likely starter/contributor at a position of relative weakness for next season.  

[Hovadipo]

8 hours ago, RaceToTheTop said:

What I have advocated for is that once a player has played four years, the school IMO does not owe the player anything beyond that and that the ability to continue playing after that is not a given.  In terms of Leal being from Bloomington.....I think that is irrelevant and I couldn't care less. It's the potential of pushing someone out the door who was brought in, was the first to say they were committed to the school when the previous coach was fired, was one of the players who didn't nearly screw the team out of an NCAA appearance by skipping curfew in Chicago, and has been nothing but a good team mate.

He’s also not a Priller-level end of bench player. He’s brought serious value in B1G games a few times in his first couple years and that’s a lot more than you can say for a good chunk of 12-13th men.