Player decisions

[IUCrazy2]

12 minutes ago, iuswingman said:

I would say it is probably a little easier to get someone to stay than it is to get someone to come.

And I would say people keeping moving the goal posts.  After he was hired, people said his #1 job was getting players back.  So far, 1 guy is officially gone and that guy was gone when Miller was here.  He is currently undefeated in retaining players with a few still to be played.  Jury still out on the transfer market.

My initial point still stands though, the media is right about some of this fanbase.  Never happy.  Never content.  Rarely upbeat.  Mostly negative.

[Trish]

3 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

He absolutely needs to win games, but the OP was talking strictly about recruiting wins.  Currently Woodson is undefeated in that metric with some games still to go this year.

I have eventually gone negative on most of our recent hires, but it wasn't done 2 weeks after they were hired.  You sometimes get the impression that the thought process for some people is:  "I did not like the hire, let me seek out any and all information that I can put on the internet to show I was right.  If good news is received, how do I create the small storm cloud off in the distance?"

Ultimately Woodson will be judged on wins and losses but the guy has done just about everything people could have asked of him up to this point.  Retain our best player?  Check.  Retain solid recruiter from prior staff?  Check.  Retain the 2 higher rated freshmen with high ceilings?  Check.  Pull in the transfer who is expected to help with shooting? Check.  Bring in solid recruiter from in conference rival who many thought was a coaching candidate?  Check.

Like I understand not wanting to crown Woodson the King of IU yet, I am not ready to do that, but my Lord, it is ok to be optimistic about how things have gone.  People who are a constant, negative wet blanket get old.  Can something actually go bad first before we start bitching?

Yeah things are looking pretty sharp for being two weeks in on the job. Our coaching staff is looking pretty darn good and we retained an All-American. It looks well! 

Woodson is setting himself up for, dare I say, high expectations the first year? We'll see what the roster turns out to be. Evidentially he wants to win right a way, good for him but I hope it doesn't turn into high expectations - dud results. I like the approach however. He is older, I'm sure he doesn't want to rebuild for two years lol 

[Ghost of Rick Majerus]

9 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

He absolutely needs to win games, but the OP was talking strictly about recruiting wins.  Currently Woodson is undefeated in that metric with some games still to go this year.

I have eventually gone negative on most of our recent hires, but it wasn't done 2 weeks after they were hired.  You sometimes get the impression that the thought process for some people is:  "I did not like the hire, let me seek out any and all information that I can put on the internet to show I was right.  If good news is received, how do I create the small storm cloud off in the distance?"

Ultimately Woodson will be judged on wins and losses but the guy has done just about everything people could have asked of him up to this point.  Retain our best player?  Check.  Retain solid recruiter from prior staff?  Check.  Retain the 2 higher rated freshmen with high ceilings?  Check.  Pull in the transfer who is expected to help with shooting? Check.  Bring in solid recruiter from in conference rival who many thought was a coaching candidate?  Check.

Like I understand not wanting to crown Woodson the King of IU yet, I am not ready to do that, but my Lord, it is ok to be optimistic about how things have gone.  People who are a constant, negative wet blanket get old.  Can something actually go bad first before we start bitching?

Best post I have read in a while. Well said!

[reconmkd]

3 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

And I would say people keeping moving the goal posts.  After he was hired, people said his #1 job was getting players back.  So far, 1 guy is officially gone and that guy was gone when Miller was here.  He is currently undefeated in retaining players with a few still to be played.  Jury still out on the transfer market.

My initial point still stands though, the media is right about some of this fanbase.  Never happy.  Never content.  Rarely upbeat.  Mostly negative.

I would like to add un-informed to the fanbase list. Have you seen some of the comments on FB and Twitter? People don't know players names, don't know the players abilities, still think Matta is a coach for the team, and the list goes on.  I just smh in disbelief at times and remember how glad I am that I am here around so much knowledge and passion for the Hoosiers.

[Hurryin' Hoosiers]

19 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

And I would say people keeping moving the goal posts.  After he was hired, people said his #1 job was getting players back.  So far, 1 guy is officially gone and that guy was gone when Miller was here.  He is currently undefeated in retaining players with a few still to be played.  Jury still out on the transfer market.

My initial point still stands though, the media is right about some of this fanbase.  Never happy.  Never content.  Rarely upbeat.  Mostly negative.

I wasn't being negative and you can't say people are moving the goal posts if you're comparing posts from different people.   Using only posts from me, please show where i have moved the goal posts. 

I was meh when woodson was first hired but so far he has done well filling out 2 assistant positions and getting most players to stay with the team.  I was always on the boat to give him a chance and so far so good.

But I'm also not going to be rainbows and unicorns.  Yes, it was an accomplishment to hold on to tjd and the others.  But I also don't think it's the same as convincing a 5 star player to come play for him when that player has no connection to IU previously.  What Woodson has done so far is a good start.

If you want to call that negative, then fine.  But don't blame me for moving goal posts when that has no basis in facts. 

 

[DWB]

While I understand the POV that "he has to win" in order to validate himself, I don't agree that he's guilty of not being able to coach college ball before he's even had time to eat a full meal, much less practice.

Obviously he's watched a lot of film on all the players, or he would not have tried to recruit them back into the fold. If he didn't think he could win with this group, he would have made major changes. Any coach would.

I dumb-founded on how any IU fan could possibly think that this team won't perform light-years better than last year's team with the right coaching, motivation, and player improvement teaching. 

I also think that Woody will name TJD the captain of this team. No more "popular vote" election of captain. And by early indications, TJD is more than ready to take on that role.

[IUCrazy2]

7 minutes ago, reconmkd said:

I would like to add un-informed to the fanbase list. Have you seen some of the comments on FB and Twitter? People don't know players names, don't know the players abilities, still think Matta is a coach for the team, and the list goes on.  I just smh in disbelief at times and remember how glad I am that I am here around so much knowledge and passion for the Hoosiers.

The people on Facebook and Twitter need to just tone it down.  "We're IU and we should get whatever coach we want, we're too good to have landed Mike Woodson."  This coming from the same people who have been arguing how bad we suck for the past 20 years.  North Carolina has definitively been better than us over the past 20 years.  No competition really and I think, on paper, we had a better hire than them.  I was perusing the Kentucky forums for Brooks news and those guys are saying some stuff that just is not reality anymore IMO.  "Ha ha at Indiana and UNC, they go in the family and ignore these other options.  We're UK though and can get whoever we want."  Can you though?  The next hire at UK and the next at Duke are going to be real interesting.  You can win a title at Baylor and get paid a crap ton of money to do it.  And you can do that without a psychotic fanbase who believes it is their birthright to be in the Final Four every year.

The landscape is changing and I think we got the best hire we had available.  A bunch of the other guys we were pining after had baggage, are currently flavors of the month, or came from the same background as Woody but just left earlier.

I am happy with the direction of things for the first time in awhile.  We still have to go and win games but it at least looks like we have a plan and everyone is on board so far.

[Hoosierinbham]

34 minutes ago, iuswingman said:

I would say it is probably a little easier to get someone to stay than it is to get someone to come.

It depends on the situation.  Keeping a content kid from the state that loves the school, yes.  Keeping a kid that loved the former coach, had negative experiences with fans booing and social media, or just wants a fresh start? Probably not as easy as a new recruit with a blank slate.

[cybergates]

Just now, IUCrazy2 said:

The people on Facebook and Twitter need to just tone it down.  "We're IU and we should get whatever coach we want, we're too good to have landed Mike Woodson."  This coming from the same people who have been arguing how bad we suck for the past 20 years.  North Carolina has definitively been better than us over the past 20 years.  No competition really and I think, on paper, we had a better hire than them.  I was perusing the Kentucky forums for Brooks news and those guys are saying some stuff that just is not reality anymore IMO.  "Ha ha at Indiana and UNC, they go in the family and ignore these other options.  We're UK though and can get whoever we want."  Can you though?  The next hire at UK and the next at Duke are going to be real interesting.  You can win a title at Baylor and get paid a crap ton of money to do it.  And you can do that without a psychotic fanbase who believes it is their birthright to be in the Final Four every year.

The landscape is changing and I think we got the best hire we had available.  A bunch of the other guys we were pining after had baggage, are currently flavors of the month, or came from the same background as Woody but just left earlier.

I am happy with the direction of things for the first time in awhile.  We still have to go and win games but it at least looks like we have a plan and everyone is on board so far.

Reading this made me think Scott Drew will be the next UK coach.

[Hurryin' Hoosiers]

Just now, Hoosierinbham said:

It depends on the situation.  Keeping a content kid from the state that loves the school, yes.  Keeping a kid that loved the former coach, had negative experiences with fans booing and social media, or just wants a fresh start? Probably not as easy as a new recruit with a blank slate.

I don't know anything more than their body language on the court and what has been stated by the players but I was getting the impression not many kids loved the former coach and that the exodus would have happened if we kept Archie.  

[triple]

2 minutes ago, DWB said:

I dumb-founded on how any IU fan could possibly think that this team won't perform light-years better than last year's team with the right coaching, motivation, and player improvement teaching. 

Indeed.  I wish Miller well but he was stuck in quicksand and pulled the team in with him.  To the point that the guys would have had more success without any coaching at all...if they had just played streetball.

[Chris007]

33 minutes ago, Jungle George said:

I am regularly checking this site to find updates regarding Armaan and Race. I hope they both come back, but either way just ready to see a resolution. 

There won't be an announcement if they are not coming back until they announce their new school. 

[IUCrazy2]

20 minutes ago, iuswingman said:

I wasn't being negative and you can't say people are moving the goal posts if you're comparing posts from different people.   Using only posts from me, please show where i have moved the goal posts. 

I was meh when woodson was first hired but so far he has done well filling out 2 assistant positions and getting most players to stay with the team.  I was always on the boat to give him a chance and so far so good.

But I'm also not going to be rainbows and unicorns.  Yes, it was an accomplishment to hold on to tjd and the others.  But I also don't think it's the same as convincing a 5 star player to come play for him when that player has no connection to IU previously.  What Woodson has done so far is a good start.

If you want to call that negative, then fine.  But don't blame me for moving goal posts when that has no basis in facts. 

 

How about this, has anything transpired so far that has not fallen under the rainbows and unicorns column?  In my estimation, no.  Everything in the first two weeks has been fine.  Stop creating failures that have not happened yet.  "Receuiting these guys back to the team is easier than a 5* recruit."  Possibly.  In some instances it may be harder.  Some of these guys were involved in some of the worst failure theater in the history of the program.  They know the reality of Indiana.  Getting shitty messages on Twitter from fans.  Getting booed off the court in their last game.  They have a view of this program from the inside that a high school kid does not.  And for most of these guys, there has been quite a bit of negative here.

I think what I and some are saying is that things have gone well.  "Everything has been great so far but no 5* yet..."  And?  It has been 2 ******* weeks.  He doesn't even have a full staff yet, has to recruit back half of the team, and deal with a transfer market.  We are probably barely in touch with HS kids right now.  Yeah, he will need to do all the things you mentioned but you are out searching for reasons to be "mad", "pessimistic", or whatever label you want to put on it in the face of nothing but good news so far.

You may not be in this category, but if Franklin chooses to go elsewhere, there will be a slew of people who will use that as an indictment on Woodson when there are literally over 1,200 players in D1 looking to get out of their current situation.

[Brass Cannon]

13 minutes ago, DWB said:

 

I dumb-founded on how any IU fan could possibly think that this team won't perform light-years better than last year's team with the right coaching, motivation, and player improvement teaching. 

 

I heard similar sentiments in regards to Miller vs Crean. And it’s a dangerous mindset.  Setting anybody who doesn’t think Woodson will be successful as not really a fan.  The same way that people who didn’t believe in Archie were just negative and bad fans. 

[Chris007]

15 minutes ago, iuswingman said:

I wasn't being negative and you can't say people are moving the goal posts if you're comparing posts from different people.   Using only posts from me, please show where i have moved the goal posts. 

I was meh when woodson was first hired but so far he has done well filling out 2 assistant positions and getting most players to stay with the team.  I was always on the boat to give him a chance and so far so good.

But I'm also not going to be rainbows and unicorns.  Yes, it was an accomplishment to hold on to tjd and the others.  But I also don't think it's the same as convincing a 5 star player to come play for him when that player has no connection to IU previously.  What Woodson has done so far is a good start.

If you want to call that negative, then fine.  But don't blame me for moving goal posts when that has no basis in facts. 

 

I don't necessarily want 5-star recruits. Give me the 3-4 star guys and coach them up. With the staff we have that should not be a problem. 

[Hurryin' Hoosiers]

17 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

How about this, has anything transpired so far that has not fallen under the rainbows and unicorns column?  In my estimation, no.  Everything in the first two weeks has been fine.  Stop creating failures that have not happened yet.  "Receuiting these guys back to the team is easier than a 5* recruit."  Possibly.  In some instances it may be harder.  Some of these guys were involved in some of the worst failure theater in the history of the program.  They know the reality of Indiana.  Getting shitty messages on Twitter from fans.  Getting booed off the court in their last game.  They have a view of this program from the inside that a high school kid does not.  And for most of these guys, there has been quite a bit of negative here.

I think what I and some are saying is that things have gone well.  "Everything has been great so far but no 5* yet..."  And?  It has been 2 ******* weeks.  He doesn't even have a full staff yet, has to recruit back half of the team, and deal with a transfer market.  We are probably barely in touch with HS kids right now.  Yeah, he will need to do all the things you mentioned but you are out searching for reasons to be "mad", "pessimistic", or whatever label you want to put on it in the face of nothing but good news so far.

You may not be in this category, but if Franklin chooses to go elsewhere, there will be a slew of people who will use that as an indictment on Woodson when their are literally over 1,200 players in D1 looking to get out of their current situation.

How was my statement creating failures?   Withholding full judgement on his recruiting isn't saying he failed.

I won't blame woodson if franklin leaves.   Woodson is just tasked with building the roster and winning on the court.  The transfer portal will give him chances to replace Franklin and build a roster with someone else.  Probably a good year to switch coaches given the portal activity and no one having to sit out.

In the long run, Woodson will graded on the big picture and how the finished roster looks now and down the road.  Right now all we have is a snapshot.

[IUCrazy2]

10 minutes ago, iuswingman said:

I don't know anything more than their body language on the court and what has been stated by the players but I was getting the impression not many kids loved the former coach and that the exodus would have happened if we kept Archie.  

I think that is spot on.

[reconmkd]

6 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

The people on Facebook and Twitter need to just tone it down.  "We're IU and we should get whatever coach we want, we're too good to have landed Mike Woodson."  This coming from the same people who have been arguing how bad we suck for the past 20 years.  North Carolina has definitively been better than us over the past 20 years.  No competition really and I think, on paper, we had a better hire than them.  I was perusing the Kentucky forums for Brooks news and those guys are saying some stuff that just is not reality anymore IMO.  "Ha ha at Indiana and UNC, they go in the family and ignore these other options.  We're UK though and can get whoever we want."  Can you though?  The next hire at UK and the next at Duke are going to be real interesting.  You can win a title at Baylor and get paid a crap ton of money to do it.  And you can do that without a psychotic fanbase who believes it is their birthright to be in the Final Four every year.

The landscape is changing and I think we got the best hire we had available.  A bunch of the other guys we were pining after had baggage, are currently flavors of the month, or came from the same background as Woody but just left earlier.

I am happy with the direction of things for the first time in awhile.  We still have to go and win games but it at least looks like we have a plan and everyone is on board so far.

You are right people on those platforms could tone it down a skosh. They are the big reason behind Goodman's trolling.

I saw a FB post the other day that basically said, Everyone stop with the speculation posts, we will inform you of any hires or player moves! Some people cease to amaze me by their ego and lack of humility. Then there is the cesspool of Twitter "d" bags trashing the program that they profess they love, not even sure why I still have Twitter.

As for the pUKe fanbase, they are torn right down the middle and have been for some time now. I work with some decent pUKe fans and have discussions quite often. Half the fanbase wants Cal gone and stricken from history books, while the other half could care less if he stays or goes. Of course they are all not happy that they haven't won the championship every single year but I don't know who they would think would be an acceptable replacement for Cal.

Our hire is really growing on me, yes he is old, but Fife, maybe Lewis, keeping Hunter, offensive changes, what is not to like? We have tried outside the program for the last 20 years and that has been a rollercoaster ride, let's see what CMWs got. Its not like it could be much worse than the last 4 years!

 

[DWB]

6 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

I heard similar sentiments in regards to Miller vs Crean. And it’s a dangerous mindset.  Setting anybody who doesn’t think Woodson will be successful as not really a fan.  The same way that people who didn’t believe in Archie were just negative and bad fans. 

I was not saying that they aren't fans. I just can't understand their mindset at this particular point in time. We all have our expectations as fans, I just don't understand how anyone that is paying a modicum of attention to what has gone down in the past week, can have such a negative, or at least a mediocre view of what to expect from this team in 2021-22.

[IUCrazy2]

1 minute ago, reconmkd said:

You are right people on those platforms could tone it down a skosh. They are the big reason behind Goodman's trolling.

I saw a FB post the other day that basically said, Everyone stop with the speculation posts, we will inform you of any hires or player moves! Some people cease to amaze me by their ego and lack of humility. Then there is the cesspool of Twitter "d" bags trashing the program that they profess they love, not even sure why I still have Twitter.

As for the pUKe fanbase, they are torn right down the middle and have been for some time now. I work with some decent pUKe fans and have discussions quite often. Half the fanbase wants Cal gone and stricken from history books, while the other half could care less if he stays or goes. Of course they are all not happy that they haven't won the championship every single year but I don't know who they would think would be an acceptable replacement for Cal.

Our hire is really growing on me, yes he is old, but Fife, maybe Lewis, keeping Hunter, offensive changes, what is not to like? We have tried outside the program for the last 20 years and that has been a rollercoaster ride, let's see what CMWs got. Its not like it could be much worse than the last 4 years!

 

Right.  Let's give the guy a chance.  Everything will not be unicorns and rainbows, I guarantee that.  But so far, so good.  It is ok to relish some good news for the program for once in a long while.