Transfer Portal w IU Interest

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1 minute ago, IUFAN1976 said:

I still think he’s a black hole. Looks to try and score first but only passes it back out when he gets double teamed and that isn’t all of the time.

He's just a sophomore and this was his first season starting. I think based on the improvement he made last offseason, you can assume a similar amount of progress heading into his junior year. I agree that passing out of the post/having better awareness in general is something he will need to be working on. That said, I'm not concerned that he will get there... sometimes we talk about wanting 4 year players, but are quick to call them a problem if they're not a totally well rounded player after 2 seasons. 

I don't see how you can view Reneau as anything other than a huge net positive considering he is maybe elite at his primary skillset (post scoring) and still has potential in other important areas. Far from a perfect player, got a long way to go... hate watching him muscle it up in the trees and force shots instead of passing out... but still recognize/appreciate how valuable he is, especially to our program right now. 

[IUc2016 7,121]

26 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

I still think he’s a black hole. Looks to try and score first but only passes it back out when he gets double teamed and that isn’t all of the time.

Maybe. I do know that his assist rate this year of 20.3 is higher than any of TJD's first three years. TJD's senior season his assist rate was 24.3 for comparison. Malik's assist rate was second highest on the team this year. Trey was first at 25.6

Malik's freshman year his assist rate was 9.6, so huge improvement in one year. Would guess he could still improve. 

[str8baller 5,233]

41 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

I still think he’s a black hole. Looks to try and score first but only passes it back out when he gets double teamed and that isn’t all of the time.

He shoots 60%+ in the post. Why wouldn't he look to score first? That'd be like asking a 40% 3pt shooter to look to pass instead of shoot on catches behind the arc. 

[lillurk 3,738]

Just now, str8baller said:

He shoots 60%+ in the post. Why wouldn't he look to score first? That'd be like asking a 40% 3pt shooter to look to pass instead of shoot on catches behind the arc. 

Agree here but I will say: he’s gotta make the easy pass out when he sees obvious doubles and triples. Now if more shooters or dynamic playmakers surround him, maybe he trusts the pass more

[IUFAN1976 3,103]

7 hours ago, AZ Hoosier said:

Which makes ZERO sense, given that Mediocre Mike doesn't have a clue what his team will look like for 24-25. That's the idiocy of all of this.

You don’t think he does that?  It is my opinion, but I think he promised Mgbako to start the 3.

[IUFAN1976 3,103]

57 minutes ago, 8bucks said:

He definitely is (currently) a bit of a black hole. Definitely frustrating to watch. However, TJD became a much better passer his last year and I am hopeful MR can improve as well. 

One can only hope his game evolves in that direction 

[IUFAN1976 3,103]

19 minutes ago, lillurk said:

Agree here but I will say: he’s gotta make the easy pass out when he sees obvious doubles and triples. Now if more shooters or dynamic playmakers surround him, maybe he trusts the pass more

That’s exactly it.  I would much rather see him make the easy pass instead of forcing it with 2 and 3 players around.  How many times did he dribble into traffic and lost the ball, so frustrating 

[realTomCrean 1,540]

Positive traction with Rice

[Shooter 352]

1 hour ago, IUc2016 said:

Maybe. I do know that his assist rate this year of 20.3 is higher than any of TJD's first three years. TJD's senior season his assist rate was 24.3 for comparison. Malik's assist rate was second highest on the team this year. Trey was first at 25.6

Malik's freshman year his assist rate was 9.6, so huge improvement in one year. Would guess he could still improve. 

Exactly. And for additional context, Reneau's assist rate ranked 16th out of all Big Ten players, and #1 among post players.

[AZ Hoosier 7,099]

24 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

You don’t think he does that?  It is my opinion, but I think he promised Mgbako to start the 3.

I don't doubt that Woodson promised players starting roles, but that's the stupid part. He still doesn't know what the team will look like. He has SIX openings on the roster and has (apparently) already promised 3 or 4 starting positions. All of this "top flight" talent that the Simons and Cooks are buying for him is not going to be interested in coming off the bench. As usual, Woodson's infinite wisdom has painted himself into a corner.

[RaceToTheTop 25,636]

1 hour ago, IUc2016 said:

Maybe. I do know that his assist rate this year of 20.3 is higher than any of TJD's first three years. TJD's senior season his assist rate was 24.3 for comparison. Malik's assist rate was second highest on the team this year. Trey was first at 25.6

Malik's freshman year his assist rate was 9.6, so huge improvement in one year. Would guess he could still improve. 

And TJD had better shooters to kick it out to than Reneau did last year.

I also did get anyone being worried about not getting Brandon Huntley-Hatfield.  Reneau's sophomore season was infinitely better than Huntley's.  Reneau's sophomore season was also better than Huntley's junior season.  The complaints about Reneau -- he doesn't pass out of a double team -- Reneau took 10.8 shots per game and had 2.7 assists to 2.8 turnovers;  Hatfield took 8.7 shots and had 1 assist to 1.7 turnovers.  Hatfield didn't pass the ball at all.  I take the additional two assists for one turnover.  And playing Reneau and Hatfield together?  Hatfield isn't a rim protector either.  IMO, he's a poor man's Malik Reneau.  Hatfield rebounded better this past season, but check the freshman and sophomore stats:  the rates as a freshman were identical, the rates as a sophomore were identical.  I expect that Reneau will become an 8 rebound player this year.

I'm not sold on a pairing of Amari Williams and Reneau, but at the minimum Williams plays really good defense and is a great rebounder and rim protector.  Reneau and Huntley together would have been like Reneau alongside a slightly less talented Reneau.  Williams adds an element that Reneau doesn't;  Huntley doesn't add anything that Reneau doesn't provide.

[RaceToTheTop 25,636]

23 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

I don't doubt that Woodson promised players starting roles, but that's the stupid part. He still doesn't know what the team will look like. He has SIX openings on the roster and has (apparently) already promised 3 or 4 starting positions. All of this "top flight" talent that the Simons and Cooks are buying for him is not going to be interested in coming off the bench. As usual, Woodson's infinite wisdom has painted himself into a corner.

You also are just assuming what players have been promised starting positions.

[IH8PU 220]

2 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

You also are just assuming what players have been promised starting positions.

Assuming or not, you can bet that MR, MM and Gallo are starting. That's 3 for sure. And any portal player is not coming to come off the bench to play even 25 minutes a game. He has backed himself into a corner as far as making many changes to his roster.

[JSHoosier 20,197]

1 hour ago, IH8PU said:

Assuming or not, you can bet that MR, MM and Gallo are starting. That's 3 for sure. And any portal player is not coming to come off the bench to play even 25 minutes a game. He has backed himself into a corner as far as making many changes to his roster.

I'll be surprised if Tucker isn't starting.

[OKHOOSIER 2,260]

8 hours ago, RaceToTheTop said:

And TJD had better shooters to kick it out to than Reneau did last year.

I also did get anyone being worried about not getting Brandon Huntley-Hatfield.  Reneau's sophomore season was infinitely better than Huntley's.  Reneau's sophomore season was also better than Huntley's junior season.  The complaints about Reneau -- he doesn't pass out of a double team -- Reneau took 10.8 shots per game and had 2.7 assists to 2.8 turnovers;  Hatfield took 8.7 shots and had 1 assist to 1.7 turnovers.  Hatfield didn't pass the ball at all.  I take the additional two assists for one turnover.  And playing Reneau and Hatfield together?  Hatfield isn't a rim protector either.  IMO, he's a poor man's Malik Reneau.  Hatfield rebounded better this past season, but check the freshman and sophomore stats:  the rates as a freshman were identical, the rates as a sophomore were identical.  I expect that Reneau will become an 8 rebound player this year.

I'm not sold on a pairing of Amari Williams and Reneau, but at the minimum Williams plays really good defense and is a great rebounder and rim protector.  Reneau and Huntley together would have been like Reneau alongside a slightly less talented Reneau.  Williams adds an element that Reneau doesn't;  Huntley doesn't add anything that Reneau doesn't provide.

I think the main problem with this is Ware. His presence consistently gave MR an option out of double teams, but with Ware on the court it was typically more of a dig down by the wing as opposed to a true double. Teams couldn't leave Ware open or covered by a guard or wing on the other block. This accounted for a lot of MR assists, it was much less about his vision and passing to the perimeter as it was the pressure Ware put on defenses. If you squint there was potential for a pretty electric offense last year if we had just added consistent shooting/guard play. When Ware sat and we continued pounding the ball to MR and he was doubled it was not great. But I do not put that on MR, I put that on scheme. They opened it up a little more at the tail end of the season, but there were long stretches where MR was the only option on offense. MM was not shooting well, gallo looked like a shell of the shooter he was in 22, and Cupps offered no offensive creativity at all. I may be in the minority, and while obviously we need MR and he is an excellent scorer,  we often looked and played better basketball when he was on the bench in foul trouble (with Ware and MM in, not Sparks/Walker).. Sometimes good players are a net negative when it comes to winning (Love at UNC vs AZ) in a certain scheme. MR should not be a focal point on offense the way TJD was, and on a good team would play much fewer minutes.

Sorry for the long ramble, the short version is the scheme, roster, and playing people out of natural positions is a huge problem for this offseason, and another Kelel Ware is not walking through the door. 

[Golfman25 5,362]

9 hours ago, AZ Hoosier said:

I don't doubt that Woodson promised players starting roles, but that's the stupid part. He still doesn't know what the team will look like. He has SIX openings on the roster and has (apparently) already promised 3 or 4 starting positions. All of this "top flight" talent that the Simons and Cooks are buying for him is not going to be interested in coming off the bench. As usual, Woodson's infinite wisdom has painted himself into a corner.

It is unfortunate.  But that is what happens with a crappy coach.

”Nothing is promised. Everything is earned.”  Coach Cig. 

[IUCrazy2 2,413]

9 hours ago, IH8PU said:

Assuming or not, you can bet that MR, MM and Gallo are starting. That's 3 for sure. And any portal player is not coming to come off the bench to play even 25 minutes a game. He has backed himself into a corner as far as making many changes to his roster.

I think you have 1 of the 3 wrong.  Reneau, Mgbako, and Tucker are going to be starting.  Bank on it.  I have said before, the Tucker kid does not come here if he isn't promised a starting spot.  Sure, Woodson could change that when he gets here, but then his word is garbage and he likely struggles to ever get a kid at that level again.

Tucker would not accept going from semi-pro to college bench.  So either Woodson is changing his system and moving Mgbako to the 4 or Tucker is our 2G.

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 9,154]

31 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

I think you have 1 of the 3 wrong.  Reneau, Mgbako, and Tucker are going to be starting.  Bank on it.  I have said before, the Tucker kid does not come here if he isn't promised a starting spot.  Sure, Woodson could change that when he gets here, but then his word is garbage and he likely struggles to ever get a kid at that level again.

Tucker would not accept going from semi-pro to college bench.  So either Woodson is changing his system and moving Mgbako to the 4 or Tucker is our 2G.

I don't really think Tucker will start. He's 17 years old. 

[Kentuckysucks 2,259]

4 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I don't really think Tucker will start. He's 17 years old. 

Absolutely no chance he came here without being guaranteed to start.

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 9,154]

10 hours ago, IUFAN1976 said:

One can only hope his game evolves in that direction 

Malik is quite a bit better of a passer, facilitator than TJD, when they were the same age.