They “Retired” Coach Woodson Thread

[cybergates]

14 minutes ago, Herotime said:

CMW appears to be the hump we must get over

[Dave from Dayton]

11 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

Well, it was the only way Dakich got to coach Indiana... they fired Sampson and put the mouth in charge... so maybe, naw, never mind. 

Well, that plus the fact that Dakich was and is a by-the-rules person from a certain perspective.  IU needed someone who was not involved with the recruiting.  Dakich was not involved in recruiting.  And they needed someone who would throw themselves on the sword for good ole IU.   They wanted a disciplinarian.   (And was disposable and never have a chance at the permanent Head Coach position.)  Dakich never did have a chance to get the top dog position with IU basketball.  Once he realized that, he started to burn bridges.  He continues to this day.  No one would hire him to coach anything more critical than a potato.  He does know his X's and O's.  But no one in their right mind would be on his team.

[Demo]

2 minutes ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

There's no sugarcoating what's going on and the anger, frustration and despair is being vented everywhere.

https://247sports.com/college/indiana/article/indiana-iu-hoosiers-basketball-stats-crowd-reaction-assembly-hall-nebraska-227543624/?fbclid=IwAR3NL2xpDjpcb2fGKL5T26NfdC0oWSNvUX9gnPhWFHWNzNeq35ydScfOK3s

https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/desolate-assembly-hall-scenes-as-iu-lost-to-nebraska-mark-low-point-in-deteriorating-season/?fbclid=IwAR21LEvPsfeIFBHJShotfGomBeH0WpS-ccGRXATC6-3vKAw3pPn3MME8odw

https://www.insidethehall.com/2024/02/22/indiana-digs-major-hole-in-first-half-and-falls-85-70-to-nebraska-for-third-straight-home-loss/?fbclid=IwAR2uL9kEuZ4JhIaZygCsNFQMsKcaOEzXMqBYnqU05ZzrvaXC8H07fFDcGd8

There’s just nothing defensible at this point. I don’t know how you stand in front of your fan base at your end of year presser and make a case for a path forward here. “Hey, we made some incremental progress for a couple of years. And, sure, this is the worst season since 10-11 and the product was unwatchable, but we believe the dismissal of AHC Hunter will cure all of that and the arrow is pointing up! Oh, and congratulations to Coach Painter and our rivals to the north on their 1st Natty. We look forward to getting at them next season.” 

[cybergates]

17 minutes ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

There's no sugarcoating what's going on and the anger, frustration and despair is being vented everywhere.

https://247sports.com/college/indiana/article/indiana-iu-hoosiers-basketball-stats-crowd-reaction-assembly-hall-nebraska-227543624/?fbclid=IwAR3NL2xpDjpcb2fGKL5T26NfdC0oWSNvUX9gnPhWFHWNzNeq35ydScfOK3s

https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/desolate-assembly-hall-scenes-as-iu-lost-to-nebraska-mark-low-point-in-deteriorating-season/?fbclid=IwAR21LEvPsfeIFBHJShotfGomBeH0WpS-ccGRXATC6-3vKAw3pPn3MME8odw

https://www.insidethehall.com/2024/02/22/indiana-digs-major-hole-in-first-half-and-falls-85-70-to-nebraska-for-third-straight-home-loss/?fbclid=IwAR2uL9kEuZ4JhIaZygCsNFQMsKcaOEzXMqBYnqU05ZzrvaXC8H07fFDcGd8

By the time Sam Hoiberg hit free throws to put Nebraska up by 12 points with 2:09 remaining, the student section — which typically stands for the entire game aside from timeouts — was seated. A young woman behind the media row subtly let out a disappointed, “Well, f*** them.”

*****

The root causes of this loss were all too familiar. The Hoosiers shot 58 percent at the free-throw line, largely thanks to a 5-for-13 clip by Kel’el Ware. They shot 19 percent from 3-point range — somehow only their fifth-worst mark of the season — and allowed Nebraska to shoot 42 percent from beyond the arc on the other end. Costly individual mistakes loomed large, like Galloway’s career-high six turnovers.

[Go_Hoosiers]

You can't use the - we didn't expect our 6th year point guard to be injured excuse when you had an open scholarship and didn't bother to use it! The staff could have gone out and got anyone - even if it was their 10th option. Clearly they weren't above taking rotational players - as they grabbed Walker and Sparks. However, they didn't see a need to add a guard. Mindblowing!

[Kentuckysucks]

Based on what ISP is saying doesn't look like Pearl will happen unless Carl Cook wants to open his checkbook.  Around $20M to buyout both Pearl and Woody and then probably $7-8M a year in salary.  We're not serious enough to do that.  Dusty it is me thinks if a change occurs.

[Stuhoo]

4 minutes ago, Kentuckysucks said:

Based on what ISP is saying doesn't look like Pearl will happen unless Carl Cook wants to open his checkbook.  Around $20M to buyout both Pearl and Woody and then probably $7-8M a year in salary.  We're not serious enough to do that.  Dusty it is me thinks if a change occurs.

Bruce Pearl turns 64 in March. We cannot and will not pay massive money for a (proven, incredible) coaching hire that will be recruited against as 'about to retire' after only a year or two, and who will give us no more than 5-7 years even if everything goes well.

In assessing the best odds of something happening? Go with what ultimately makes sense! And Bruce Pearl makes no sense whatsoever. If we're discussing unrealistic pipe dreams? We have a better chance at hiring Hurley, Donovan, Stevens, or Beard than Pearl at 64 years old with a $20 million buyout. And we have practically no chance at those guys either.

[RaceToTheTop]

1 hour ago, Five Prime said:

The algorithm to hire a basketball coach should never start with, "what is your affiliation with the school?".  Rather, it should be something more along the lines of, "Can you coach college basketball?".

This is more in response to Dakichs stupid f-ing tweet about firing Woodson and hiring Cheaney and Hulls.  A ridiculous idea that would only further compound the problems surrounding the program. 

I don't like Dakich, but I think he was just saying that Cheaney and Hulls should run the team for the remainder of the season, not as permanent fixtures.  And for what it's worth, every indication is that Calbert Cheaney has zero desire to be a head coach of anything -- he's family oriented and has zero desire for the grind.

[RaceToTheTop]

14 minutes ago, Go_Hoosiers said:

You can't use the - we didn't expect our 6th year point guard to be injured excuse when you had an open scholarship and didn't bother to use it! The staff could have gone out and got anyone - even if it was their 10th option. Clearly they weren't above taking rotational players - as they grabbed Walker and Sparks. However, they didn't see a need to add a guard. Mindblowing!

This was the guy I was crying out for.  Who knows if he was interested in Indiana but given the NIL landscape of IU dollars v UCF dollars plus the fact that he was already playing in the state of Indiana, he should have been an identified option for the open scholarship.  Nothing indicates that IU even looked at him.  While his shooting is down this year his scoring certainly isn't and he scores at a couple levels.  He's not a point guard but Galloway and Sellers is a passable backcourt duo.  And the fact is that he is the leading scorer for a team that has knocked off Kansas, Texas, and Oklahoma.

It seems every player Woodson went after was an option A player.  Ultimately the lack of option B players is what sinks a program because you aren't going to land many A's.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/stats/_/id/4898010/jaylin-sellers

[ISP]

Trilly had originally reported that Pear's buyout was $17 million. 

 

Turns out that was misreported. Pearl's buyout will actually be $8.5 million in a month. 

 

I really think this changes a lot. 

[RaceToTheTop]

33 minutes ago, Dave from Dayton said:

Well, that plus the fact that Dakich was and is a by-the-rules person from a certain perspective.  IU needed someone who was not involved with the recruiting.  Dakich was not involved in recruiting.  And they needed someone who would throw themselves on the sword for good ole IU.   They wanted a disciplinarian.   (And was disposable and never have a chance at the permanent Head Coach position.)  Dakich never did have a chance to get the top dog position with IU basketball.  Once he realized that, he started to burn bridges.  He continues to this day.  No one would hire him to coach anything more critical than a potato.  He does know his X's and O's.  But no one in their right mind would be on his team.

Funny thing he coached at Bowling Green for ten years and the only time he coached an NCAA tournament game was when he was the interim coach at IU after Sampson was let go.

[AH1971]

Here's what I want to know from an administrative standpoint:

Are they simply keeping Woodson for a 4th year because the optics of firing an alum after 3 years signal too quick of a trigger and are simply delaying the inevitable?

OR

Do they actually think Woodson not only deserves a 4th year, but actually think he's the guy going forward?

Obviously I don't have a voice or the money to make a difference, but if I'm one that does, I don't give a single dime to the athletic department until that question is answered.

[Hoosierfan2017]

11 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

This was the guy I was crying out for.  Who knows if he was interested in Indiana but given the NIL landscape of IU dollars v UCF dollars plus the fact that he was already playing in the state of Indiana, he should have been an identified option for the open scholarship.  Nothing indicates that IU even looked at him.  While his shooting is down this year his scoring certainly isn't and he scores at a couple levels.  He's not a point guard but Galloway and Sellers is a passable backcourt duo.  And the fact is that he is the leading scorer for a team that has knocked off Kansas, Texas, and Oklahoma.

It seems every player Woodson went after was an option A player.  Ultimately the lack of option B players is what sinks a program because you aren't going to land many A's.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/stats/_/id/4898010/jaylin-sellers

Imo, he only goes after plan A guys because his talent evaluation abilities are poor and he doesn’t put the time in to identify under the radar guys. He goes after guys top schools are going for because if they’re going for them then they must be good. 

[lillurk]

9 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

This was the guy I was crying out for.  Who knows if he was interested in Indiana but given the NIL landscape of IU dollars v UCF dollars plus the fact that he was already playing in the state of Indiana, he should have been an identified option for the open scholarship.  Nothing indicates that IU even looked at him.  While his shooting is down this year his scoring certainly isn't and he scores at a couple levels.  He's not a point guard but Galloway and Sellers is a passable backcourt duo.  And the fact is that he is the leading scorer for a team that has knocked off Kansas, Texas, and Oklahoma.

It seems every player Woodson went after was an option A player.  Ultimately the lack of option B players is what sinks a program because you aren't going to land many A's.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/stats/_/id/4898010/jaylin-sellers

The part I bolded basically sums up the whole error of the pursuit strategy Woodson has deployed. (You can criticize some tactics, like his lack of involvement, too.)

Feels like an obvious fallacy to anyone who’s every played, coached, or watched, IMHO — better to have more good players than [null set empty scholarship].

The difference between Sellers and Gunn/Leal/Cupps is pretty significant, even in a backup role where X was healthy all year.

[Ghost of Rick Majerus]

I just don't understand how a program that invests so much and has such a passionate fan base can get so little in return. It just makes no sense to me. You can't blame Woodson for wanting a crack at the helm, but you can blame Dolson for making the hire. I appreciate Mike Woodson's love for IU and what he tried to do, but it's not working.

I see folks on here arguing about Dusty May and Bruce Pearl and I just don't understand. I would take nearly any of the folks mentioned over what we have now. I just want competent coaching and fundamental basketball. Why is that so difficult to obtain at a program that invests so much as IU? What am I missing?

[HoosierTrav]

5 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Funny thing he coached at Bowling Green for ten years and the only time he coached an NCAA tournament game was when he was the interim coach at IU after Sampson was let go.

Absolute garbage coach. Ego bigger than Woody’s by a country mile. Truly believes in his head that he was capable of leading Indiana back to past greatness. Like Fran said, “if he was a coach, he’d be coaching.” 
 

He refuses to take blame for Bowling Green. Still to this day he says the reason he wasn’t successful was that they had to deal with too many injuries. 
 

You don’t stink at BG & WVU and then come to the incinerator that is IU and win. 
 

Sorry Danny. We need a dude and you…..ain’t….it. 
 

cannot ******* stand that clown human. 

[lillurk]

I do wonder if Jaylin Sellers was going to head close to home (GA) and they just already knew that. But the point @RaceToTheTop is making is valid, there were myriad options available.

[HoosierMatty]

24 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Funny thing he coached at Bowling Green for ten years and the only time he coached an NCAA tournament game was when he was the interim coach at IU after Sampson was let go.

He always talks about how he resigned from West Virginia because they were cheating. But I keep thinking to myself why in the world would West Virginia hire a guy with a garbage record like his. A guy who never went to the tournament. And what's even more maddening is Bowling Green took him back. He owes everything to being a former IU player and assistant. Because how else does a guy with his track record and people skills even get a coaching job

 

 

[FortWayneHoosier]

13 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

This was the guy I was crying out for.  Who knows if he was interested in Indiana but given the NIL landscape of IU dollars v UCF dollars plus the fact that he was already playing in the state of Indiana, he should have been an identified option for the open scholarship.  Nothing indicates that IU even looked at him.  While his shooting is down this year his scoring certainly isn't and he scores at a couple levels.  He's not a point guard but Galloway and Sellers is a passable backcourt duo.  And the fact is that he is the leading scorer for a team that has knocked off Kansas, Texas, and Oklahoma.

It seems every player Woodson went after was an option A player.  Ultimately the lack of option B players is what sinks a program because you aren't going to land many A's.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/stats/_/id/4898010/jaylin-sellers

Race, good find on Sellers, never heard of him but he certainly fits the bill of what we are after. Whats crazy is we pulled Sparks over Sellers from Ball State, make it make sense...........

[Adillac]

Hard to get a sense of directionally where IU would be looking in the next coaching search- young(er) and promising? Older and experienced? Something in between? IU guy or does that matter anymore? 

They're in a tough spot bc they hired 2 young promising coaches in the last 20 years: Crean/Archie...and neither one worked out. Then they hired an IU guy with Woodson and that isn't working out.

Agree with others that Pearl is too old now. He has the type of presence and personality that would probably do well here- assertive, uptempo style, high energy, etc...