They “Retired” Coach Woodson Thread

[WeeDerkaNaut]

49 minutes ago, str8baller said:

How exactly does one get a commitable offer, leading IU to believe he’s theirs, and still have time to go home and get outvoted by his family?  That’s a weird timeline. 
 

And even is his kids are gone, he’s still at 1-1 tie with his wife. 

Which means he automatically loses. I'm not married but if I was and my wife was adamantly against something it's not happening simple as that. No more needs said there.

[ap2345]

1 hour ago, Scooter T Washington said:

Why isn’t he  coaching here now? Facts please, not b.s.

Go read my post a few pages back. It explains it. It's on page 1580

[IUFAN1976]

2 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

I'll never understand the "optics" of firing a coach who's had a mediocre record, no recruiting, and failed to build a foundation for a program, who didn't meet his stated goals of competing for championships.  Seems clear to me.  

Yes and it was crystal clear last year and yet here we are in a worse off predicament than last year 

[tyappleg]

Listen; are you certifiably insane and out of touch with reality if you believe Brad Stevens will be the next head coach of Indiana basketball?  Yes. 

Do I believe Brad Stevens will be the next coach of Indiana basketball? Yes.

[Golfman25]

35 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

If you don't understand the demands and expectations for this job, then I can't help you. Sometimes those demands aren't met in in the first couple of years. It isn't for everybody, clearly. We're on what, coach 6 this century?

What specific "demands" must be met in the first couple (ie; 2) of years?  

[AH1971]

7 minutes ago, TheWatShot said:

Yeah, it's almost like we hire the wrong coaches and that's why they all fail. 

We don't hire the "wrong" coaches. We hire the best available candidates. Those thinking IU voluntarily hired Archie over Billy Donovan or chose to retain Woodson over Bruce Pearl don't live in an accepted reality. Anybody who operates on the line of thinking that the IU job is one you cannot turn down hasn't been paying attention the last few decades.

The IU job is a good job as in it: a) pays well b) gives you the resources to succeed c) rewards you for success

But to think that the IU job is on a tier of its own is pure nonsense. It isn't.  

[Pagoda]

Just now, AH1971 said:

We don't hire the "wrong" coaches. We hire the best available candidates.

Ha.  No we don’t, not even close.

[str8baller]

18 minutes ago, IUHoosierJoe said:

If negotiations got to the point that Stevens got on a plane to meet with IU officials and a contract was produced for him to sign, you’d have to think Stevens was really interested, no?  I mean, the alternative, even according to your what your own sources say happened, was that Stevens had nothing better to do during the home stretch of Boston’s regular season than negotiate with Indiana just to lead them on.

Coaches, or their agents, engage in this type of thing all the time to increase leverage at their current job. 
 

Nick Saban engaged with Texas and got an offer just to shove it in Alabama’s face because he was upset with some reporters and fans who thought they underachieved one season. This was after he’d won multiple titles.   
 

IU getting all excited like Tommy Boy in the diner scene after a routine overture , would be the most IU thing ever. Par for the course. 

[Golfman25]

36 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

As I said I have never heard exactly but something about what one or more of the old men in the room were acting.

She's a woman so who really knows? Sometimes my wife is in a great mood, I go to the bathroom and come back she's is spitting fire. 

It was probably a comment like that.  :)  

[Uspshoosier]

Ius last win against a tournament quality top 5 seed was February 25, 2023.  Pretty sure any coach hired moving forward can do better then that 

[AH1971]

1 minute ago, str8baller said:

Coaches, or their agents, engage in this type of thing all the time to increase leverage at their current job. 
 

Nick Saban engaged with Texas and got an offer just to shove it in Alabama’s face because he was upset with some reporters and fans who thought they underachieved one season. This was after he’d won multiple titles.   
 

IU getting all excited like Tommy Boy in the diner scene after a routine overture , would be the most IU thing ever. Par for the course. 

Dusty May's agent is probably lighting up like a Christmas Tree right now just as Bruce Pearl's agent was last year. We get taken to the cleaners every cycle and never learn. 

[Golfman25]

30 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Yes look at Cigs in football after one season. He is king. He could ask for anything in the state right now and get it.

Can you have him ask for a new basketball coach?  :)  

[jumpshot53]

1 hour ago, AH1971 said:

Yes I absolutely believe Woodson deserved a 4th season even with hindsight. Firing a coach, especially an alum, after 3 years is terrible optics, considering Archie had just gotten 4 years. Now had Woodson finished with multiple losing seasons, no tournaments, etc it would have been a tougher conversation but you're getting 4 years at IU unless you have a Sampson level scandal. 

The every coach deserves 4 years argument made sense when most recruits were coming from high school, or the players were transfers that had to sit a year before playing.  That was fair to the coaches that had to wait for their players to arrive and develop.

Now, in these times, players can come and go quickly.  Instant teams can be assembled.  Anyone with good eyes can tell in one or two years if a coach knows how to coach.    Look at Woodson's results!  My Gawd,  do we have to discuss the flaws in his game planning?

I disagree that every coach needs  4 years or more to show his stuff.  I understand that injuries can ruin a good year, but even then, as long as the coach is putting good effort on the floor,  he will be given more of a chance.  Woodson is just a horrible coach.  That's all I can say.

[Uspshoosier]

13 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Those thinking IU voluntarily hired Archie over Billy Donovan or chose to retain Woodson over Bruce Pearl don't live in an accepted reality.

IU voluntarily hired the hottest coach under 50 during that cycle.    They hired the coach that could have went to any other D1 high major school that was hiring.  Turned out to be a crappy hire but IU definitely got the top available college coach that year.    It seems Woodson was always going to get that 4th year regardless if Pearl was a realistic option.   Doesn’t matter now.  IU will once again go into this next cycle of coaches as the top job open unless North Carolina moves on from Davis so they will get to pick a really good college coach.  Just can’t go the gimmick route again and hire someone that had 0 years of college coaching experience 

[WeeDerkaNaut]

And as far as the "noise" and pressure of being IU's HC? I'm not a coach by any means but I'd be chomping at the bit if I was and got offered the job. And I'd be doing everything I could to make the fans as happy as possible. You get the fans going nuts for you in AH and that becomes deafening pressure on the opposing team. Also to be the one to turn the program around and get us back to our winning ways? I'd be all in for that chance. But what do I know? 

[AH1971]

3 minutes ago, jumpshot53 said:

The every coach deserves 4 years argument made sense when most recruits were coming from high school, or the players were transfers that had to sit a year before playing.  That was fair to the coaches that had to wait for their players to arrive and develop.

Now, in these times, players can come and go quickly.  Instant teams can be assembled.  Anyone with good eyes can tell in one or two years if a coach knows how to coach.    Look at Woodson's results!  My Gawd,  do we have to discuss the flaws in his game planning?

I disagree that every coach needs  4 years or more to show his stuff.  I understand that injuries can ruin a good year, but even then, as long as the coach is putting good effort on the floor,  he will be given more of a chance.  Woodson is just a horrible coach.  That's all I can say.

Winning instantly (because of the portal) doesn't translate to building and establishing a culture. We've had one coach do that the last 25 years (Crean) and he was by far and away our best coach since RMK. The portal alleviates 6-25 seasons in year 1, but if you're buying 7-8 guys every single offseason, you aren't building or establishing anything. 

I'd much rather a coach spend his first year or two identifying, developing, and building a culture that sets up for much further long term success regardless of record than purchasing a bunch of rentals because it might mean you win 20 games and play in the NCAAT. Call me old school, call me an outlier, call me whatever you want but you aren't going to eliminate 30+ years of frustration in one or two seasons because of the portal. That I promise.

[Uspshoosier]

Archie got 4 years at IU 

Year 1 his team wasn’t good enough to be in the tourney picture 

Year 2 lost 12 of 13 games and still was 2nd team out and lost a play in game against Ohio st in the B1G tourney 
 

Year 3 the tournament got cancelled and his team never got the opportunity to make a run in the tourney that his team earned the right to participate in 

his last year he coached a full year without the advantage of home court when playing at Assembly Hall.  Archie might of got 4 years but those last 2 years are 2 that no other Indiana coach ever had to deal with. 
 

regardless he wasn’t the right coach for IU just as Woody was never the right coach for IU.   Step back in the box and swing away 

[Jeff Flabjohns]

20 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Ius last win against a tournament quality top 5 seed was February 25, 2023.  Pretty sure any coach hired moving forward can do better then that 

The noise is why Crean gushed “It’s Indiana, it’s Indiana” from day one.
If we as a fanbase didn’t bring the noise after what we’ve seen these last 8 years then just disband the program now. 
 

We aren’t expecting Banners. Just get us into this expanded tournament most years and every 3-4 years we should be a top 4 seed. 
There’s around 80 P5 teams? With our history, resources, and love for basketball in this state we should be consistently among the top half of that 80. We should not be having 8 year periods like we just did—especially in this new era of transfer/NIL

[Pagoda]

1 minute ago, WeeDerkaNaut said:

And as far as the "noise" and pressure of being IU's HC? I'm not a coach by any means but I'd be chomping at the bit if I was and got offered the job. And I'd be doing everything I could to make the fans as happy as possible. You get the fans going nuts for you in AH and that becomes deafening pressure on the opposing team. Also to be the one to turn the program around and get us back to our winning ways? I'd be all in for that chance. But what do I know? 

Yea.  Our fans aren’t that bad.  Just a bunch of nice midwesterners.  Woody only ran into issues when his program completely imploded on the court and recruiting.  It was all his fault. 

Heck, we were not good last year and still had a huge fan showing at MSG and Atlanta.  Home attendance was good too for a bad team ranked in the 90’s.

Coaches should know how to manage fans, it’s not hard.  Fans are a valuable asset like you said — they cheer and donate.  They might get mad online — who cares.  If a coach praises the fans and takes accountability for results, fans will give the coach quite a bit of leeway.  Woody did the opposite, which doesn’t pair well with the awful results he produces.

[CSP]

Just now, AH1971 said:

Winning instantly (because of the portal) doesn't translate to building and establishing a culture. We've had one coach do that the last 25 years (Crean) and he was by far and away our best coach since RMK. The portal alleviates 6-25 seasons in year 1, but if you're buying 7-8 guys every single offseason, you aren't building or establishing anything. 

I'd much rather a coach spend his first year or two identifying, developing, and building a culture that sets up for much further long term success regardless of record than purchasing a bunch of rentals because it might mean you win 20 games and play in the NCAAT. Call me old school, call me an outlier, call me whatever you want but you aren't going to eliminate 30+ years of frustration in one or two seasons because of the portal. That I promise.

I agree. 

But we can certainly show a modern vision of how we want to play basketball, at a minimum. 

You bring Rice, Tucker, and Malik back moving forward with a new coach--- Sisley will be in the mix, find a spring de-commit that fits what you want to do.... That's a great start and it's worlds different than what Crean had coming back/started with.