They “Retired” Coach Woodson Thread

[Brass Cannon 25,150]

11 minutes ago, str8baller said:

Woodson went to two tournaments going 2-2. That’s miles better than anything lil’ Archie did. Woody is currently 3-4 against Purdue teams that were better than the Purdue teams Archie went 0-fer against. 
 

I’m shocked to find Archie defenders are still around. 

Woodson benefitted because the transcendent talent of TJD.  He underachieved hard all 4 years and this season is by far the worst of the last 8. When looking at where we should be versus where we are at. 
 

[AZ Hoosier 8,644]

6 hours ago, Ghost of Rick Majerus said:

Not saying I would believe, I'm just interested in all these reasons he lists. Curious if he is going to go down the "woe is me path" or actually man up and own his failures. 

This is what I expect... I cannot see him ever facing his failures... too much hubris... it's always someone else's fault... the fans, the players, the hump.

[go iu bb 7,267]

14 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Woodson benefitted because the transcendent talent of TJD.  He underachieved hard all 4 years and this season is by far the worst of the last 8. When looking at where we should be versus where we are at. 
 

By far the worst of the last 8? Miller's final season they had a losing record.

Man, we really need a competent coach after these last two total duds.

[Uspshoosier 48,061]

7 hours ago, str8baller said:

Woodson went to two tournaments going 2-2. That’s miles better than anything lil’ Archie did. Woody is currently 3-4 against Purdue teams that were better than the Purdue teams Archie went 0-fer against. 
 

I’m shocked to find Archie defenders are still around. 

Woodys record against Purdue and making a couple tourneys no matter how he got in is the reason why people over looked the flaws that were they from day 1.    Not really defending Archie by pointing out numbers.   I would hope no one would defend either of them.   Turns out they were both bad hires by IU.  
 

Each had 4 years and nothing special about any of those years

Archie  year 1 - .500 in conference(weak conference) with 0 wins against tourney quality teams(you could argue with a healthy Colson ND was) no where near the tourney 

Year 2- won some good games however lost 12 of 13 games and somehow finished 2nd team out with a chance to win a “play in” game against Ohio State in the B1G tourney 

Year 3- won some big games and had his team in position  to make his first tourney at IU when everything got shut down.  IU would of made the tourney that year and Purdue wouldn’t of made it (covid year was kind to Purdue and Painter)  who knows what Archie’s record in the tourney would of been had he gotten a chance to coach in it like his team actually earned to participate in it 

Year 4- played the 4th overall SOS in the country with no fans in the building for home games    Lost a lot to good teams but went 2-12 in Q1 games 

4 years-  2 years no where near the tourney and 2 years where he would of made one and was on the door knocking 

Woody year 1- won some big games but  it took a miracle 2nd half against Michigan in the B1G tourney and a win against Illinois just to be the 2nd to last team in the field where they beat a bubble MWC team to make the field of 64   
 

Year 2- High expectations where they finished tied for 2nd with Northwestern 3 games behind Purdue   Swept Purdue in the regular season though so they won some big games    Comfortably made the tourney however lost in disappointing fashion in the round of 32 after beating a MAC team in the field of 64 

Year 3- Only beat 2 tournament quality teams all year both at home (bubble team Sparty and a Wisky team that was fading fast)  no where near the tourney 

Year 4- so far have beaten one bubble tourney quality team on the road.   Played a non con SOS where their marquee home game is a against a winless conference team (South Carolina) and got forced to retire mid season because of results  

 

at least Archie actually put effort into high school recruiting and work his tail off he just turned to be terrible at his job     I don’t need to go over Woodys lack of effort over his 4 years     
 

again both sucked but even when you break down the on court results it’s closer then you would think    They  both stunk     IU would have to really try hard to hire someone as low as those 2 

 

[iu eyedoc 2,724]

10 hours ago, AZ Hoosier said:

Yeah... not the least bit interested in Woodson's spin. He's screwed the pooch at every opportunity, burned bridges all along the way and now he's looking for sympathy. 

Wait, but I thought I heard he was highly revered in the coaching fraternity, the players are unconsolably despondent, and  his love for IU is unmatched. Plus, if it wasn't for that darned Purdue loss he would be looking at an NCAA run and year 5.

[Brass Cannon 25,150]

6 minutes ago, go iu bb said:

By far the worst of the last 8? Miller's final season they had a losing record.

Man, we really need a competent coach after these last two total duds.

The amount of talent we have to have the results we have is by far the worst. On paper should be contending for a conference title 

Still a chance we have a losing record this year. 

[RaceToTheTop 27,410]

great recap, @Uspshoosier

Also would say that Woodson is just a guy who as a face of the program is hard to root for.  Miller came off as aloof but never had the feeling other than he took the losses personally.  Woodson on the other hand wanted to blame it on injuries, players, etc…anything but himself.

[Uspshoosier 48,061]

17 minutes ago, go iu bb said:

By far the worst of the last 8? Miller's final season they had a losing record.

Man, we really need a competent coach after these last two total duds.

You could argue it could be.  14-10 and still has 7 games left to play.   Miller played the final season without the atmosphere of assembly hall for home games.    Woody has lost 3 home games in conference with the luxury of having an atmosphere and still was down to Illinois by 30 in the first half 

[Ghost of Rick Majerus 923]

4 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Woodys record against Purdue and making a couple tourneys no matter how he got in is the reason why people over looked the flaws that were they from day 1.    Not really defending Archie by pointing out numbers.   I would hope no one would defend either of them.   Turns out they were both bad hires by IU.  
 

Each had 4 years and nothing special about any of those years

Archie  year 1 - .500 in conference(weak conference) with 0 wins against tourney quality teams(you could argue with a healthy Colson ND was) no where near the tourney 

Year 2- won some good games however lost 12 of 13 games and somehow finished 2nd team out with a chance to win a “play in” game against Ohio State in the B1G tourney 

Year 3- won some big games and had his team in position  to make his first tourney at IU when everything got shut down.  IU would of made the tourney that year and Purdue wouldn’t of made it (covid year was kind to Purdue and Painter)  who knows what Archie’s record in the tourney would of been had he gotten a chance to coach in it like his team actually earned to participate in it 

Year 4- played the 4th overall SOS in the country with no fans in the building for home games 

4 years-  2 years no where near the tourney and 2 years where he would of made one and was on the door knocking 

Woody year 1- won some big games but  it took a miracle 2nd half against Michigan in the B1G tourney and a win against Illinois just to be the 2nd to last team in the field where they beat a bubble MWC team to make the field of 64   
 

Year 2- High expectations where they finished tied for 2nd with Northwestern 3 games behind Purdue   Swept Purdue in the regular season though so they won some big games    Comfortably made the tourney however lost in disappointing fashion in the round of 32 after beating a MAC team in the field of 64 

Year 3- Only beat 2 tournament quality teams all year both at home (bubble team Sparty and a Wisky team that was fading fast)  no where near the tourney 

Year 4- so far have beaten one bubble tourney quality team on the road.   Played a non con SOS where their marquee home game is a against a winless conference team (South Carolina) and got forced to retire mid season because of results  

 

at least Archie actually put effort into high school recruiting and work his tail off he just turned to be terrible at his job     I don’t need to go over Woodys lack of effort over his 4 years     
 

again both sucked but even when you break down the on court results it’s closer then you would think    They  they both stunk     IU would have to really try hard to hire someone as low as those 2 

 

It's interesting to see it broke out like that. Thanks for doing that. 

I'm not defending Archie either, but I do agree that Archie worked his tail off. For whatever reason, it just didn't work out. I thought Archie was a solid hire when it was made and I'm still surprised by his results (or lack there of). 

[JF87 1,778]

Mike Woodson- my assessment.   

What went right?

1. The theory that IU's NIL, tradition, and Woodson's NBA pedigree could attract highly ranked recruits had some merit.  Hood-Schifino, Reneau, Bates, Mgbako, Tucker, were highly ranked and Cupps and Newton were also sought after recruits.  
2. In an age of free agency, players that want to play in the NBA will transfer to play for Woodson because he played and coached in the NBA. Kopp, Ware, Ballo, Rice, and Caryle were high profile portal names that IU was able to bring in.  

What went wrong?

1. Woodson didn't know the college game and has been slow to adapt.  He had the opportunity to get support from Matta or veteran assistants in Hunter and Fife but evidently chose not to.  Failure to understand the analytics of the three-point shot on both the offensive and defensive end has cost us in a lot of our losses.  Also, that first year, I'm adamant that Woodson did not even know how TV timeouts worked.
2. Woodson had no blueprint or plan.  He once said I think I can win with any team just give me talented players and I'll find a way to win with them.  Good college programs have a style of play and recruit players that fit that style and system.
3. Poor or lazy recruiting.  Hood-Schifino, Cupps, and Newton were actual commits. Reneau, Bates, Mgbako, and Tucker were late pick-ups because their first choices fell through.  There's a lot of top 30 players in just a few years, but the pieces don't fit together.
4. Accountability.  Until recently, no matter how players played, Woodson would roll out the same lineup to start the game and after the half.  This NBA mindset of my starters are my starters doesn't provide the motivation and accountability needed at the college level.  Woodson refused to change because he thought he wasn't accountable to anyone since he had friends in high places. 
5. Outside of Hood-Schifino, guards have not developed under Woodson.  

I put this together quickly.  Feel free to add ideas that I missed. 

[RoadToZion 693]

I can’t believe we let him coach against Michigan. I think this has been handled very poorly. He should have been fired so we can get our guy to sign without making it awkward. 

[go iu bb 7,267]

7 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

You could argue it could be.  14-10 and still has 7 games left to play.   Miller played the final season without the atmosphere of assembly hall for home games.    Woody has lost 3 home games in conference with the luxury of having an atmosphere and still was down to Illinois by 30 in the first half 

I was more arguing with the "by far" part. Miller's year 4 is a contender with much of the same talent that Woodson had in year 1. 

This is what we've become. Debating which of the last 8 years was the worst and quibbling over if one was "by far" the worst. smh

Dolson needs to not **** up this hire.

[Silat Player 890]

22 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Woodys record against Purdue and making a couple tourneys no matter how he got in is the reason why people over looked the flaws that were they from day 1.    Not really defending Archie by pointing out numbers.   I would hope no one would defend either of them.   Turns out they were both bad hires by IU.  
 

Each had 4 years and nothing special about any of those years

Archie  year 1 - .500 in conference(weak conference) with 0 wins against tourney quality teams(you could argue with a healthy Colson ND was) no where near the tourney 

Year 2- won some good games however lost 12 of 13 games and somehow finished 2nd team out with a chance to win a “play in” game against Ohio State in the B1G tourney 

Year 3- won some big games and had his team in position  to make his first tourney at IU when everything got shut down.  IU would of made the tourney that year and Purdue wouldn’t of made it (covid year was kind to Purdue and Painter)  who knows what Archie’s record in the tourney would of been had he gotten a chance to coach in it like his team actually earned to participate in it 

Year 4- played the 4th overall SOS in the country with no fans in the building for home games    Lost a lot to good teams but went 2-12 in Q1 games 

4 years-  2 years no where near the tourney and 2 years where he would of made one and was on the door knocking 

Woody year 1- won some big games but  it took a miracle 2nd half against Michigan in the B1G tourney and a win against Illinois just to be the 2nd to last team in the field where they beat a bubble MWC team to make the field of 64   
 

Year 2- High expectations where they finished tied for 2nd with Northwestern 3 games behind Purdue   Swept Purdue in the regular season though so they won some big games    Comfortably made the tourney however lost in disappointing fashion in the round of 32 after beating a MAC team in the field of 64 

Year 3- Only beat 2 tournament quality teams all year both at home (bubble team Sparty and a Wisky team that was fading fast)  no where near the tourney 

Year 4- so far have beaten one bubble tourney quality team on the road.   Played a non con SOS where their marquee home game is a against a winless conference team (South Carolina) and got forced to retire mid season because of results  

 

at least Archie actually put effort into high school recruiting and work his tail off he just turned to be terrible at his job     I don’t need to go over Woodys lack of effort over his 4 years     
 

again both sucked but even when you break down the on court results it’s closer then you would think    They  they both stunk     IU would have to really try hard to hire someone as low as those 2 

 

Any fair comparison of Miller and Woodson has to somehow compensate for NIL. Where would Woody be w/o IU's warchest? 

His HS recruiting has been a mess. He is an absolutely abysmal long-term recruiter (i.e. developing relationships with HS players and then closing the deal). If he couldn't just write a check for team of transfers, how in the world would he even have a roster?

And don't think of me as an Archie "defender." He was horrible. I just think w/o an NIL war chest, Woody is worse.

[IUFAN1976 4,187]

9 minutes ago, JF87 said:

Mike Woodson- my assessment.   

What went right?

1. The theory that IU's NIL, tradition, and Woodson's NBA pedigree could attract highly ranked recruits had some merit.  Hood-Schifino, Reneau, Bates, Mgbako, Tucker, were highly ranked and Cupps and Newton were also sought after recruits.  
2. In an age of free agency, players that want to play in the NBA will transfer to play for Woodson because he played and coached in the NBA. Kopp, Ware, Ballo, Rice, and Caryle were high profile portal names that IU was able to bring in.  

What went wrong?

1. Woodson didn't know the college game and has been slow to adapt.  He had the opportunity to get support from Matta or veteran assistants in Hunter and Fife but evidently chose not to.  Failure to understand the analytics of the three-point shot on both the offensive and defensive end has cost us in a lot of our losses.  Also, that first year, I'm adamant that Woodson did not even know how TV timeouts worked.
2. Woodson had no blueprint or plan.  He once said I think I can win with any team just give me talented players and I'll find a way to win with them.  Good college programs have a style of play and recruit players that fit that style and system.
3. Poor or lazy recruiting.  Hood-Schifino, Cupps, and Newton were actual commits. Reneau, Bates, Mgbako, and Tucker were late pick-ups because their first choices fell through.  There's a lot of top 30 players in just a few years, but the pieces don't fit together.
4. Accountability.  Until recently, no matter how players played, Woodson would roll out the same lineup to start the game and after the half.  This NBA mindset of my starters are my starters doesn't provide the motivation and accountability needed at the college level.  Woodson refused to change because he thought he wasn't accountable to anyone since he had friends in high places. 
5. Outside of Hood-Schifino, guards have not developed under Woodson.  

I put this together quickly.  Feel free to add ideas that I missed. 

Nice post and very spot on.  You captured the jest of his entire 4 years.  The biggest problem that I see is #2.  Coming from the NBA he never had a system nor did he try to develop one.  He could have used Matta and Fife in that regard but he knew best and just wanted to recruit the highest ranked players as possible either in the portal or high school and he thought he was a good enough coach to get them to play together and develop them.  Well breaking news, he sucks as a coach with no system.  

[str8baller 6,074]

27 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

They  they both stunk     IU would have to really try hard to hire someone as low as those 2 

My thesis from several pages back.
 

No need to rehabilitate lil Archie to be mad at Woody.

[HoosierHoopster 7,391]

I’m just glad at this point people don’t have to root to lose with the continuing fear Woodson would somehow, despite the extreme disaster of this year 4, still be here next season. Always saw it as the likely “retirement” season that it is.

I hope the players get some kind of saving grace as this train wreck careens towards the end of season. Anyone blaming the players for supposedly not trying or looking disinterested, while rightly railing on Woodson for his horrible “coaching” just imagine having to play for him, after the lifetime of effort put into your game to play at this level. Complete lack of offense outside the front court, complete mismanagement of player abilities and movement, total lack of ownership as the HC, total lack of in-game coaching/adjustments,  repeated blaming and scapegoating the players and even the fans. Yes, Woodson is the worst coach IU has ever had, an embarrassment as a coach. Now imagine playing for him.

I’ll keep rooting for the players, man I hope they’re able to salvage something out of this season 

[IUFAN1976 4,187]

4 minutes ago, Silat Player said:

Any fair comparison of Miller and Woodson has to somehow compensate for NIL. Where would Woody be w/o IU's warchest? 

His HS recruiting has been a mess. He is an absolutely abysmal long-term recruiter (i.e. developing relationships with HS players and then closing the deal). If he couldn't just write a check for team of transfers, how in the world would he even have a roster?

And don't think of me as an Archie "defender." He was horrible. I just think w/o an NIL war chest, Woody is worse.

Think about this, If NIL and the transfer portal hadn’t come when it did, Woodson wouldn’t have a complete team at all.

[Uspshoosier 48,061]

4 minutes ago, str8baller said:

My thesis from several pages back.
 

No need to rehabilitate lil Archie to be mad at Woody.

I just post numbers and my opinion on both.  I’m not trying to rehabilitate anyone.    Regardless IU is heading away from those guys so brighter times for IU. 

[Demo 21,165]

17 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Woodson benefitted because the transcendent talent of TJD.  He underachieved hard all 4 years and this season is by far the worst of the last 8. When looking at where we should be versus where we are at. 
 

God, I’m in no mood to spend my day defending Woody because there’s way too much low hanging fruit to bash away on. But we gotta be accurate: 1) TJD wasn’t a great player when Woody got there. He was a very good high usage player whose motor ran hot and cold. Woodson made him a much better defender, a much better processor annd decision maker and got much better and more consistent effort out of him. Woody did an excellent job with him, as he did with Ware. 2) His 1st 2 teams didn’t underachieve hard. They appropriately achieved. Do people think his 1st team with scoring options 3 and 4 of Race Thompson and Parker Stewart was talented? Stop it. Making the tournament was a solid achievement. Year 2 team was 2nd in the conference and a 4 seed. They weren’t any better than that. The last 2 years have significantly underperformed tied to blind spots in Woody’s philosophy of roster construction and failure to adjust schemes to fit pieces. He 100% rates that @$$-whuppin’ and needed to go. He was a bad hire because even if he was successful he was never a long term answer and he arguably needed to go after last year and inarguably need to this year. But we don’t need to paint it as worse than it was or suggest that the guy got literally nothing right to justify it. 

[Asha’man 85]

32 minutes ago, RoadToZion said:

I can’t believe we let him coach against Michigan. I think this has been handled very poorly. He should have been fired so we can get our guy to sign without making it awkward. 

Shouldn’t matter. It’s official he is out at the end of the season. The next coach isn’t taking the job until the season is over anyway. Unless it’s someone not currently coaching. Which case they are not going to be stepping in to finish the season regardless. And it shouldn’t make anything awkward for anyone to accept the job. IU is getting what they want and taking the high road in the process.