Fire Coach Woodson Thread

[AH1971 1,156]

1 minute ago, RaceToTheTop said:

The whole 5-6 decent is left up to interpretation.  Not really a bet that can be made.

And even if you do get 5-6 decent players:

a) they’ve never played with each other before

b) they’ve never played in this system 

c) and most importantly, at the end of the day they are still being coached by Mike Woodson 

[Jet812 37]

17 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

How much you want to put on that? 

Decent player is definitely subjective.  Let’s make a wager on how the team does next year instead.  Easier to quantify.

Edited March 9 by Jet812
Spelling

[BGleas 7,880]

Even if a miracle happens and the staff hits a grand slam in the portal, which is highly unlikely, they'll still be coached by this staff. 

That's the flaw in the plan. 

[southernindianahoosier2 902]

27 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

This is going to be long. 

- he already knows who is out and who he wants out. 
- he already has some very probable immediate portal additions. Don’t have to wait for portal to open to know those. those conversations have been happening
- yes, there will need to be 5/6 guys picked up. If right, starter level guy, like MM, becomes available, he will take one IF price is right.

- if we all believe Chris has good info, he is saying $6 million for portal this year. I have heard even more with more to come following years once proven. 

- the average major conference starter level player makes $250k. Top 10 guy makes $750k to $1 million from direct collective type funds (maybe more or varies for a few if they have large social like a Cupps but those numbers are would not come from the $6 million.)

- schools can now have direct compensation conversations they couldn’t just last year. Schools can also take multi time transfers. This allows for that $6 million to be used more effectively.

- part of the issue with guys like Sanon or D Davis (examples) is Woody feels those guys are not worth the funds they want compared to what he can get in portal.  This caused a shift. Some schools are still willing to throw big money at freshman, Woody is backing away from that. 

- He is on these 2025s more than some realize that are lower 50/100 types. Just doesn’t fit narrative. So he knows he has to bring a couple of those guys each year but it isn’t about “laziness” as much as balancing best use of NiL dollars and the holes he knows he has to fill right now. We can agree he messed up but he cant now pause and take 4 year types with 2024. 

- why do we care as a fanbase if donors want to give millions to buy a team? This is what the top 20 schools will all be doing in coming years and why the need for a GM. 

- why take on a project who may or may not work when you can take a guy who is 100% proven in college game? Avila at ISU made $30k this year and they HOPE to get him to $90k. This is new reality for lower schools against big NiL schools. Those guys are going to leave more and more. Yes, even if they are winning because if they can’t play in NBA, I got to make my money now. SIU coach list 3 really good ones and now gets fired. Sucks, reality of where things are. 
 

With funds like this and playing time, you can go get lot of really good guys. Why did Liam pull out then? Post is long enough and I touched on it prior. 
 

He needs to build a roster to exactly how he wants to play and then adjust his system slightly. He backed himself into a corner with how bad the guards and wings were on this and you can’t adjust much when you don’t have the guys to do it. As was stated, our front 3 are our best 3p guys. You can’t adjust to a more offense without guys to do it. Still playing through the paint doesn’t mean jam into post with right guys. 
 

for those that will say “this doesn’t work” - there are examples of schools that have had success with this and I would also argue this year portal is different again and nobody has tried it with this kind of funds thrown at it.  

So here’s my issue with all of this: What is Mike Woodsons Offensive and Defensive Strategies? Without a clear direction and strategy, he’s going to over pay for pieces. 

and what are those pieces? Is he telling his staff I want a point guard that has these qualities, I think Joe Bob from Montana state fits perfect let’s get him. Or is it I’m gonna wait and see who’s the most talented and over pay.. there’s a proactive strategy with Joe Bob, and reactive with the latter.

What kind of player does he want at the point? He spend how many years and resources on Gabe Cupps and XJ. Two completely stylistically different players which tells me he has no clue what player he wants to plug into his system.

You could give Woodson $100 Million and it would be the same result. He has no idea how he wants his pieces to stylistically fit together. He’s going to over pay for redundant skill sets and egos will be hurt, discipline will suffer, losses will pile up.

 

 

[Unexpectedflash 969]

Only the biggest of optimists can think woody is some genius that is about to change college basketball recruiting when he doesn’t even value the most important shot in basketball and believes playing two bigs is the way to go. If he does i will be the first one to eat crow but i just don’t see it 

[RaceToTheTop 24,269]

1 minute ago, Ngw7183 said:

Do you need to have consistency each year? Maybe? We don’t know. Never been tried. Year after year with bringing in best guys looking to move. 

also, nobody can deny on every single team it is the transfers ruling college bb. Even on our own team Ware is the best guy. 

Would also say, you are not only going to grab seniors. You get some juniors, couple sophomore guys. Then next year you keep the good ones around and repeat it.  More hole filling over time but if you can upgrade, you do. 

You can think it is crazy and it may be but there is validity to it as a new philosophy. 

You do realize that Woodson blamed the early play on number of new players in the system.  You can have an NCAA level team that doesn’t make it because they bury themselves in non conference play.

[TheWatShot 13,418]

The donors who are staunchly in Woodson's corner must be getting REALLY desperate if they're cool with the idea of purchasing a roster full of players from other programs just to see what happens next year. Hard for me to wrap my mind around how they approve of that given how starkly different it is from the way Knight's teams and program were put together, but I guess desperation will do that to people. 

[Class of '66 Old Fart 81,913]

Attention everyone.  IU is the only school in the entire country that is going to have $$ to throw at portal players.  Every other school has been notified that all NIL contributions must cease immediately.

That continued argument  re:  our huge NIL war chest is laughable that we're going to literally outbid every other program to fill a roster for a mediocre coach to mismanage.

 

 

 

 

 

[RaceToTheTop 24,269]

Just now, Ngw7183 said:

I can research it but it is way, way higher than you realize. 

This is also so new. Such small sample sizes. It was last year or 2 years ago when 65% of rosters on sweet 16 were transfers. 

I would like to see the data on the 65% number.

[southernindianahoosier2 902]

Another note on Woody: just to be positive if in fact he’s retained….

he did go out into the portal and get like 80-90% of the production of TJD and JHS, so he could in fact do it a second year with Ware and XJ… (I’m not going to talk about him not replacing Kopps production)

When Calipari first came to Kentucky he went with the groundbreaking 1 and done model. No other P5 coach I believe will be doing Woodys approach of tenured portal players who can contribute immediately. Either woody is a trailblazer, or there’s a reason he’s all alone here.

 

[IndyHoops 461]

6 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

Florida this year, Colorado State, Illinois (way more transfers than people realize),  KSU,  there are others and we can argue what level of success we are talking.

The big difference is if the extra money is being given as stated, nobody has ever had this kind of money to attack the portal. Nobody. Even the Kansas/Duke types have money tied up and  never free like this. 

Plenty can disagree or not like it but nobody knows if it will work.  There was a time when people thought certain offensive systems or Cal one and done approach etc was crazy too. Then it became the thing until the new thing. 
 

You can’t compare this to sports like NFL for example with caps. What he is take a swing at is Yankees, Dogers, Houston baseball approach where you just outspend the competition. 
 

may crash and burn, maybe it is brilliant. Maybe better with a different coach. But, this is where it stands and think it is very possible it does work. 
 

 I will also admit, he has to have a core, he loses all of them, yeah, it will fail. Just don’t believe that will happen. 

Florida is the only team to bring in 6 or more transfers in one year and be successful. 

Illinois brought in 3 and Colorado State brought in 2 this year.

Kansas State is 18-13 (8-10) this year.

 

[Magisterium 375]

2 hours ago, Unexpectedflash said:

God the next Nate oats is literally in the same state down at ISU and we’re probably keeping Woody. Why do we make this so hard on our selves

Maybe the BOT is so used to traveling between Bloomington and Indianapolis that they don't know where Highway 46 is? Just a theory.....

[Bowhunter 2,674]

There is going to be so much negative recruiting against us in the transfer portal and beyond, I don’t see us recovering. It’s time to break ties with Woodson . I don’t care what statement was released about him coming back. Next year will be awful and Hoosier Nation is fractured.

[Class of '66 Old Fart 81,913]

1 minute ago, Ngw7183 said:

 

think some underestimate Woody’s will to win and forget how he showed that as a player. He isn’t going to go out like this. His mindset is way different than 6 months ago.

Yeah, he's thinking he'll use his sand wedge more than his pitching wedge.

[Silat Player 271]

30 minutes ago, Jet812 said:

Woodson couldn’t get 2 decent players coming off of last year but will get 5-6 this year.  Highly unlikely…

Yeah, this is the part that I think is hilarious from the Woody apologists. He literally couldn't get ONE guard out of the portal last year. And yes, I know...I know...it was because X and Trey were so good that no good guards wanted to come. LOL

So now these Woody accolytes think that he's going to grab a bunch of really good guards out of the portal this year and completely remake the roster. There's absolutely nothing that Woody has done in the past 3 years to indicate that this will be possible. He has shown a propensity to just recruit the top prospects that everyone else is going after, and not having a great deal of success recently. 

And the super secret plan to get slightly lower-ranked players for 2025? What?

He has absolutely not shown the ability to successfully recruit players in that range. And what about the 2024 class? Were there no players in that class that he could successfully recruit. 

Anyone who thinks Woodson is going to get some kind of monster haul this Spring is absolutely delusional. And he's going to have to prove that all these different parts that he does find can be molded into a functional team. Good luck with that. This year proved that he's not very good at that either. LOL

[AZ Hoosier 6,101]

35 minutes ago, Unexpectedflash said:

Don’t you get it. Not having a single recruit is all part of some master plan to revolutionize college basketball with an all transfer roster! 

Yep... Woodson wants to make Indiana basketball just like the Yankees or Dodgers - buy a team each time around... 

[BGleas 7,880]

Just now, Ngw7183 said:

Staff will be changing some.

think some underestimate Woody’s will to win and forget how he showed that as a player. He isn’t going to go out like this. His mindset is way different than 6 months ago.

His will to win as a player is irrelevant. That was almost 50 years ago. 

He's the head coach and his system is brutal. He's all of the sudden doing a complete 180 on how he coaches?

As someone said above, he's spent all season complaining about having a "young team" and "10 new players" (which wasn't accurate) and now all of the sudden he's going to lead a team full of transfer to the promised land? 

Color me skeptical. 

[IndyHoops 461]

3 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

I can research it but it is way, way higher than you realize. 

This is also so new. Such small sample sizes. It was last year or 2 years ago when 65% of rosters on sweet 16 were transfers. 

That would mean at least 7 players on every roster in the Sweet 16 were transfers. Thats not even close to true. 
 

And even if it was, none of them are bringing in 7 or even 6 transfers in one year.

 

[southernindianahoosier2 902]

2 minutes ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

Another note on Woody: just to be positive if in fact he’s retained….

he did go out into the portal and get like 80-90% of the production of TJD and JHS, so he could in fact do it a second year with Ware and XJ… (I’m not going to talk about him not replacing Kopps production)

When Calipari first came to Kentucky he went with the groundbreaking 1 and done model. No other P5 coach I believe will be doing Woodys approach of tenured portal players who can contribute immediately. Either woody is a trailblazer, or there’s a reason he’s all alone here.

 

And he has got the team clicking in March, 3 game win streak and likely great seeding and path in the BTT to make a run and make the tourney a third straight year.

I fully understand that this is a tightrope and one mistake over the next 2 weeks kills hope for a tourney run. I mean a last second shot could be the difference this year, and projecting 3 years out we look like a plastic bag floating in the wind.

please god if you can hear me. Have us hire Dusty May 

[JF87 1,413]

1 hour ago, cbp4iu said:

Let’s fast forward 3 weeks from today…. If FAU is still in the NCAA tourney…. IU has to reconsider going after May…. 

I think if FAU makes the tournament, you need to go after May.  You've proven you're a really good college coach if you take FAU, a school with no tradition, to the tournament two consecutive years.