Fire Coach Woodson Thread

[IndyHoops 461]

9 hours ago, Ngw7183 said:

All can be true. I am not ignoring things like system but I am also saying posts like that from Rabby saying that was the reason doesn’t add up. It wasn’t true he wasn’t visited and he knew the system when he committed. But now those are the facts and anything else is crazy talk. 

I can agree a system needs to change while also not believing that is main issue with recruits. Also don’t think fans are reason for him (that is another post) but might be for plenty others. 

Let’s assume he is gone. 

So how do we build back? I don’t think top coaches want to be here. Really believe that. So we get Dusty.

He himself said he wanted to quit same day of taking FAU job and almost did once be realized what he agreed to. He had a breakdown and went home and cried. Now, imagine him in year 3/4 and still missing tourney. You have to admit that is very possible. No way this fanbase gives him a break because his offense is nice. 

In 14 years what was our best team? Think about what led up to that. The fanbase fully backed off. They rallied behind one of the worst rosters ever. Few years later, program was number 1 in country.

All things can be true but we have a tendency to make things worse.  When multiple guys like TJD, Leal and now an IU family being recruited is saying the same thing, we can’t just toss it away and laugh which is what is done. You can be mad at the coach, want him 100%!gone and still realize this has to change. 
 

What am I getting at, Fire Woody, he retires, hire any coach, doesn’t matter, this fanbase has to stop attacking our own players, coach etc in year 2/3. Seems many always take that as lower expectations, nope. You can expect things without attacking and making it worse. 

We are not Kansas, UNC or UK. We don’t get that liberty right now.  

You are missing the point completely.

if Woodson:

* had any kind of high school talent coming in that fans could get excited about watching develop over the next few years

* was out recruiting Indiana kids hard. Doesn’t matter if you get all them. But was putting in the work

* admit some changes need to be made on offense instead of doubling down on basketball is played “inside-out”

* wasn’t trying to build the entire roster from the portal. Making Indiana “Portal U”

Serious question, what is there to be positive about for an IU basketball fan? DePaul and some other programs would love to have the following IU does. The fan base is one of the biggest selling points for IU right now. NIL is what it is because of the fans.

Let’s play another game… OSU fired Holtmann half way through this year after ONE bad year. He made the NCAA five years in a row. Are the OSU fans the problem?

Howard is barely hanging on at Michigan this year after ONE bad year.The previous 2 years Howard WON THE BIG TEN, went to the Elite Eight AND made a Sweet 16, are the Michigan fans the problem?? 
 

The fact is Woodson is going to get fired next year. He simply isn’t a good enough college coach to pull off what needs to be done next year. So why wait? So we can be like Michigan next year? So we can fire a former player half way through the season like OSU? Or is IU not at the same level as OSU and Michigan in basketball?

 

Edited March 9 by IndyHoops

[NashvilleHoosier 3,674]

9 hours ago, Ngw7183 said:

We are not Kansas, UNC or UK. We don’t get that liberty right now.  

This message needs to be delivered loud and clear….and the person who needs to hear it the loudest and the clearest is Mike Woodson. 

[AZ Hoosier 6,540]

41 minutes ago, coonhounds said:

I am beginning to think alot of you guys are emailing the wrong people lol. I think the donors need to feel pressure. It sucks cause we need them but of there just cruising along like nothing is happening while the world burns nothing will change. Just my thinking. Also boo Buckner whenever in public lol. Joking kinda but I do want a change desperately

 

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

Two thoughts:

1. Administration emails are readily available on the IU website; donor email addresses are not.
2. Big money donors don't give a rip what we think... they think their donation is all that matters and they want something in return (usually publicity or a voice in the matter). Thus "Cook Hall" "Simon-Skjodt Assembly Hall" and "Woodson stays".

[go iu bb 5,485]

9 hours ago, cleeter said:

Because Dolson doesnt have to say anything. Probably doesn’t want to say anything. You don’t have to make a statement when holding onto a coach that’s under contract.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If he believes that, he's even more out of touch with the fanbase than thought. As you can see, there are still rumors and people who haven't given on Woodson being gone. It's not quite to were it was before the "leak" there's still a lot of it after the Liam decommitment. That's not going to change and will probably get worse when IU flames out in the B1GT. If Woodson is staying, there needs to be something official from the AD's office, even if it's just a press release. A press release would be pretty dismissive of the fans though, at this point a press conference were reporters can ask questions is really needed. Woodson staying says they don't care about basketball but no press conference says they don't care about the fans, either. The fans who spend money. The money the school wants.

[Cd71 176]

1 hour ago, IUCrazy2 said:

And you gotta think the reason his Dad is invested like that is because they view Indiana as an institution as one of the better options but they just have an issue with management.  Same with Sisley.  Get any semi-competent coach in here and we can still land that 2025 class that has kids you build around.  This portal Uber alles approach isn't a winner.  It is lazy, short term thinking that not only is going to sink Woodson, it is going to put his inevitable replacement in a deeper hole than they should be.

I know that his Dad is very Pro IU. If things were going well at IU I feel this kid would be a lock. 

[coonhounds 8,787]

Two thoughts:

1. Administration emails are readily available on the IU website; donor email addresses are not.
2. Big money donors don't give a rip what we think... they think their donation is all that matters and they want something in return (usually publicity or a voice in the matter). Thus "Cook Hall" "Simon-Skjodt Assembly Hall" and "Woodson stays".

Find away to boycott their businesses and public shame them lol

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,932]

With Crean I became a recruting fanatic because I genuinely thought Crean can win with top talent. So I rooted like hell that he could get it. Maybe he could, maybe he couldn’t. But he did create 1 great basketball team through hard work and determination. But…… Admin wouldn’t help him get the players he needed. So who knows…

 

Archie….man Archie was DOA.  I thought maybe his defensive mind, toughness would rub off and he might create a gritty, tough team that can win. But it was bad early and often. Over his head.

Woodson.. hated the hire. Then some of the perceived recruiting success at the top grabbed my attention.  But in the end it was never even close to enough, and that is with a robust NIL package.  

 

I thought the admin’s inability to do winning things in the Pre-Nil era was what was actually holding us back in many of our coaching failures. 
 

The Woody experiment with the robust NIL packaging has deflated my enthusiasm more than ever.  
 

I can’t even follow recruiting with enthusiasm anymore because it doesn’t make a difference.

I don’t have faith in his systems, his talent evaluation, his in game coaching, his perception in the world of recruiting.  I’ve lost faith in him and therefore in the University based on its support, decision making, and hiring principles. 
 

 

Edited March 9 by WayneFleekHoosier

[JSHoosier 19,817]

3 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

With Crean I became a recruting fanatic because I genuinely thought Crean can win with top talent. So I rooted like hell that he could get it. Maybe he could, maybe he couldn’t. But he did create 1 great basketball team through hard work and determination. But…… Admin wouldn’t help him get the players he needed. So who knows…

 

Archie….man Archie was DOA.  I thought maybe his defensive mind, toughness would rub off and he might create a gritty, tough team that can win. But it was bad early and often. Over his head.

Woodson.. hated the hire. Then some of the perceived recruiting success at the top grabbed my attention.  But in the end it was never even close to enough, and that is with a robust NIL package.  

 

I thought the admin’s inability to do winning things in the Pre-Nil era was what was actually holding us back in many of our coaching failures. 
 

The Woody experiment with the robust NIL packaging has deflated my enthusiasm more than ever.  
 

I can’t even follow recruiting with enthusiasm anymore because it doesn’t make a difference.

I don’t have faith in his systems, his talent evaluation, his in game coaching, his perception in the world of recruiting.  I’ve lost faith in him and therefore in the University based on its support, decision making, and hiring principles. 
 

 

I hated the Woodson hire but felt a little better when Matta and Fife were brought on board. Yeah, that lasted a whole year.

Even last year the team looked like it was circling the drain before Jackson Davis called a players only meeting.

[Papacap 459]

11 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

Even last year the team looked like it was circling the drain before Jackson Davis called a players only meeting.

This. Some of my “on the fence about Woodson” friends talk about last year like IU won the Big 10 or made some deep run in the tourney. It was an OK year. But we also had two NBA draft picks after all.

IU fans are so used to bad performance that anything that doesn’t suck is celebrated.

Edited March 9 by Papacap

[go iu bb 5,485]

10 hours ago, Ngw7183 said:

All can be true. I am not ignoring things like system but I am also saying posts like that from Rabby saying that was the reason doesn’t add up. It wasn’t true he wasn’t visited and he knew the system when he committed. But now those are the facts and anything else is crazy talk. 

I can agree a system needs to change while also not believing that is main issue with recruits. Also don’t think fans are reason for him (that is another post) but might be for plenty others. 

Let’s assume he is gone. 

So how do we build back? I don’t think top coaches want to be here. Really believe that. So we get Dusty.

He himself said he wanted to quit same day of taking FAU job and almost did once be realized what he agreed to. He had a breakdown and went home and cried. Now, imagine him in year 3/4 and still missing tourney. You have to admit that is very possible. No way this fanbase gives him a break because his offense is nice. 

In 14 years what was our best team? Think about what led up to that. The fanbase fully backed off. They rallied behind one of the worst rosters ever. Few years later, program was number 1 in country.

All things can be true but we have a tendency to make things worse.  When multiple guys like TJD, Leal and now an IU family being recruited is saying the same thing, we can’t just toss it away and laugh which is what is done. You can be mad at the coach, want him 100%!gone and still realize this has to change. 
 

What am I getting at, Fire Woody, he retires, hire any coach, doesn’t matter, this fanbase has to stop attacking our own players, coach etc in year 2/3. Seems many always take that as lower expectations, nope. You can expect things without attacking and making it worse. 

We are not Kansas, UNC or UK. We don’t get that liberty right now.  

Liam saw the system but at that point Woodson was still on the record as saying he wanted to play a more modern 4-out style of basketball and just played the way they had because of the personnel he inherited (TJD and Race) but a change was coming. I bet that's what they sold him. Liam would also play with his buddy Queen and a very good point guard in Fland in this modern style of offense. 

Then the season happens. Same style with no changes except that it's worse without TJD. Team struggles against bad opponents and gets blown out by almost any team that has a pulse. Fland commits to UK and Queen to MD so he would no longer be playing with them. Woodosn goes on the record saying IU shoots enough 3s, we need to play through the post, and the college game is played inside out. Those statements show the lie of wanting to play a more modern style of basketball. Also, while the season is going down the tubes, Woodson is throwing players under the bus while not taking any blame himself. Let's not forget that he knows Reneau so he might be hearing bad things directly from him.

On top of all that, IU stops communicating as much has he and his family would like. This is a dude whose signature celebration move is to mime a phone call so I think talking to people is important to him.

But sure, the fans are to blame. 

[Home Jersey 6,579]

14 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

With Crean I became a recruting fanatic because I genuinely thought Crean can win with top talent. So I rooted like hell that he could get it. Maybe he could, maybe he couldn’t. But he did create 1 great basketball team through hard work and determination. But…… Admin wouldn’t help him get the players he needed. So who knows…

Archie….man Archie was DOA.  I thought maybe his defensive mind, toughness would rub off and he might create a gritty, tough team that can win. But it was bad early and often. Over his head.

Woodson.. hated the hire. Then some of the perceived recruiting success at the top grabbed my attention.  But in the end it was never even close to enough, and that is with a robust NIL package.  

I thought the admin’s inability to do winning things in the Pre-Nil era was what was actually holding us back in many of our coaching failures. 

The Woody experiment with the robust NIL packaging has deflated my enthusiasm more than ever.  
I can’t even follow recruiting with enthusiasm anymore because it doesn’t make a difference.

I don’t have faith in his systems, his talent evaluation, his in game coaching, his perception in the world of recruiting.  I’ve lost faith in him and therefore in the University based on its support, decision making, and hiring principles. 

I am not normally one to subscribe to the whole "great man theory" but if Cathy's commentary is any legitimate insight into how the administration at IU operates ... this place needs a savior to walk through the doors. 

Absolute gut punch to accept that. 

[go iu bb 5,485]

7 hours ago, Kentuckysucks said:

Everyone I know associated with the program hates Woody.   Capital W.  If the worst happened tomorrow 80% of the IU fan base would pop the champagne.  It is what it is. Bring in Pearl or Dusty. What is the worst that can happen?  Woody is disgusting beyond belief.  Just an awful human being. 

Care to elaborate?

Also, did you mean capital H?

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,932]

5 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

I am not normally one to subscribe to the whole "great man theory" but if Cathy's commentary is any legitimate insight into how the administration at IU operates ... this place needs a savior to walk through the doors. 

Absolute gut punch to accept that. 

I’ve not given up.  Because it’s actually simple.

Just need someone that is dedicated to winning as much or more as the other stuff.  

NIL and financial support neutralizes some of the gap.

Hire a proven winner with a system and open the bank account and see what happens.  
 

[Golfman25 4,996]

9 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

I hated the Woodson hire but felt a little better when Matta and Fife were brought on board. Yeah, that lasted a whole year.

Even last year the team looked like it was circling the drain before Jackson Davis called a players only meeting.

I thought Woodson had things moving in the right direction.  
 

First keeping TJD and the team together was a positive.  No start from zero full rebuild necessary.  

Short recruitments of guys like Bates, Malik, MgBako were positive.  Landing JHS was a plus.  Even bringing in guys like Banks, Gunn, and Cupps was positive.  (Ok some guys don’t work out)

I thought the system he was playing was mainly due to who we had — TJD.  Got to ride the big dog.  I wrongly assumed he would modify it “with his own players” because that’s what he indicated he would do.  
 

Two tournament appearances was a net plus (even though we saw early exits).   
 

And then he craps the bed.  No system changes — although it looks like some minor adjustments pulling ware off the block with Malik.  (Too little too late?).  0-31 on incoming HS recruits, with the one doing a high profile de-commitment 24 hours after it’s reported the coach is coming back.  It’s such a colossal collapse and failure it just cannot continue.  

[go iu bb 5,485]

11 hours ago, Silat Player said:

It's become more obvious by the year that IU's inept administration just had extremely good luck when they hired Bob Knight in 1971. Given the fact that they've messed up the basketball program so completely since they fired him, apparently RMK's surly and controlling personality is the only thing that kept the basketball program at an elite level for all of those years. 

Now that the administration has taken back control of the program, they've been entirely inept. The sh*tshow of this season is just further proof of that. I never thought that I'd long for the "bad" Knight years of the late 1990s, but here we are...

You just need to look at the football hires over the last 50 years to see that this is true. Knight was luck.

[ap2345 7,562]

6 hours ago, IUHoosier5 said:

SIAP: it’s real. Unbelievable. 

Also from what I know about Mullins dad he’s not going to sugar coach anything. They keep giving IU every opportunity to land him but they can’t seem to get out of their own way. Mostly because of Woodson.

[Herotime 723]

ughhhhhhh….

I need rumors and coaching gossip. SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME SOMETHING GOOD. 

[Ryno6284 2,560]

2 minutes ago, ap2345 said:

Also from what I know about Mullins dad he’s not going to sugar coach anything. They keep giving IU every opportunity to land him but they can’t seem to get out of their own way. Mostly because of Woodson.

IU deserves Mullins!  Woodson doesn't!

[go iu bb 5,485]

19 minutes ago, Papacap said:

This. Some of my “on the fence about Woodson” friends talk about last year like IU won the Big 10 or made some deep run in the tourney. It was an OK year. But we also had two NBA draft picks after all.

IU fans are so used to bad performance that anything that doesn’t suck is celebrated.

Right. If you look at last season with the thought that they had a lottery pick  and one of the best players in IU history (who happens to be playing well in the NBA now), then last year is actually a pretty disappointing underachievement.

I would note that they did underachieve the preseason expectations of just about everyone, which Woodson has done every year.

[go iu bb 5,485]

30 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

I hated the Woodson hire but felt a little better when Matta and Fife were brought on board. Yeah, that lasted a whole year.

Even last year the team looked like it was circling the drain before Jackson Davis called a players only meeting.

I don't know if I would use the word hate, but I didn't like the hire at all when it was announced. Matta and Fife gave me reason for optimism which quickly faded. 

Every year he's had a bad losing streak and had to recover from it. Every year underperformed preseason expectations.