Fire Coach Woodson Thread

[JSHoosier 19,678]

1 minute ago, go iu bb said:

I don't know if I would use the word hate, but I didn't like the hire at all when it was announced. Matta and Fife gave me reason for optimism which quickly faded. 

Every year he's had a bad losing streak and had to recover from it. Every year underperformed preseason expectations.

Oh I definitely hated the hire, my feelings were made known in the thread for his hire. A 60+ year old with no college experience and hadn't been a HC in almost 10 years, just laughable.

[go iu bb 5,021]

3 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

Oh I definitely hated the hire, my feelings were made known in the thread for his hire. A 60+ year old with no college experience and hadn't been a HC in almost 10 years, just laughable.

I wasn't saying you didn't hate it, just that my own negative feeling wasn't strong enough to call hate. But it was definitely a "WTF, this really sucks" moment when announced.

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,204]

14 minutes ago, ap2345 said:

Also from what I know about Mullins dad he’s not going to sugar coach anything. They keep giving IU every opportunity to land him but they can’t seem to get out of their own way. Mostly because of Woodson.

I’ll play devils advocate. 

If I was a Woodson defender, I’m clearly not.

Some of this helicopter parent stuff is just over the top. I’ve coached a lot of teams at the high school level and there is definitely a sentiment of my kid does not wrong from parents.  Some of that stuff is not worth.

NOW, I’m not accusing this of Mullins.  I don’t know. If you don’t trust coach and staff you will feel the desire to helicopter.  
 

simple answer is to get coach and staff that would be trusted.  
 

right now, McNeely is all the evidence we need of the message this staff is presenting 

 

[Banksyrules 4,309]

2 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

The fact that you and like 10’ of these replies made this about Liam is hilarious. Has zero to do with what I was saying. 

FYI - Liam was contacted plenty. That is more BS by Rabby (again). You all act like Liam got up and said this.

He also knew the system etc.but again, this isn’t about Liam.

Thank you for replying, I thought this thread was going to be slow today.  Keep going king. 

[Chris007 42,669]

3 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

The fact that you and like 10’ of these replies made this about Liam is hilarious. Has zero to do with what I was saying. 

FYI - Liam was contacted plenty. That is more BS by Rabby (again). You all act like Liam got up and said this.

He also knew the system etc.but again, this isn’t about Liam.

I’ve been busy and have missed your enlightened wisdom so remind me we lost Liam because our crappy offense, crappy coaching or because we didn’t contact him enough. I remember you telling us how excited Liam was to play in this offense because there are 3’s all over the place. 

[Chris007 42,669]

3 minutes ago, Banksyrules said:

Thank you for replying, I thought this thread was going to be slow today.  Keep going king. 

He brought me back before running errands and getting to watch Dusty.

[RaceToTheTop 24,296]

2 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I’ve been busy and have missed your enlightened wisdom so remind me we lost Liam because our crappy offense, crappy coaching or because we didn’t contact him enough. I remember you telling us how excited Liam was to play in this offense because there are 3’s all over the place. 

He’s too busy not answering the question I posed to him.

[JF87 1,413]

26 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

I thought Woodson had things moving in the right direction.  
 

First keeping TJD and the team together was a positive.  No start from zero full rebuild necessary.  

Short recruitments of guys like Bates, Malik, MgBako were positive.  Landing JHS was a plus.  Even bringing in guys like Banks, Gunn, and Cupps was positive.  (Ok some guys don’t work out)

I thought the system he was playing was mainly due to who we had — TJD.  Got to ride the big dog.  I wrongly assumed he would modify it “with his own players” because that’s what he indicated he would do.  
 

Two tournament appearances was a net plus (even though we saw early exits).   
 

And then he craps the bed.  No system changes — although it looks like some minor adjustments pulling ware off the block with Malik.  (Too little too late?).  0-31 on incoming HS recruits, with the one doing a high profile de-commitment 24 hours after it’s reported the coach is coming back.  It’s such a colossal collapse and failure it just cannot continue.  

Matt Painter has a system and recruits to it.  He wants big (tall and physical) post players, three-point shooters, and throw in an athlete to play defense.  Painter can tell a player that this is what we do and this how you will fit in.  Woodson's approach has been "get me the most talented players possible and I'll figure it out".  This makes it difficult to establish any team identity.  Recruits look at IU's offense the last 3 years and they see heavy post play.  The style is not enticing for wings or shooting guards. 

[IU Prof 735]

4 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

I do know the answer. Notice the trend. Patience runs lower each time, social media has grown more and it is a chain reaction that self feeds.

Fans have always been on message boards and while some players, few parents etc have participated, it is nothing like 1000s of tweets daily with recruits and players seeing it. Instagram has never been like Twitter. Covid brought about the acceleration of college recruits on Twitter through all the non- contact periods and finding ways to post videos and market themselves. That trend stayed and now what was once message board hate, now is in recruits faces daily. People can say they need to stay off it but this is how many of them make money. 

Thinking there is a single right answer is also flawed.

You could list 50 things Woody does wrong, be right that he needs to be fired and also cant ignore this reality either. Again, for those that always say it, we are not Uk. Don’t get same liberty.

This is not about 1 player. Multiple have said it. Guess they are all soft and all make it up. 

I guess I don’t understand why that is so hard for fans to just admit. It doesn’t make your anger any less valid. Doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be fired, doesn’t mean you are “at fault.” Can just be one of the things that has to improve. Multiple things can be true.

We brag about our solution media following! but don’t see how amplified that makes things.

I do think it's fair to say that patience runs thinner the longer the mediocrity continues.

 

But it's also fair to point out that the coaching this year has been especially bad and the trajectory especially worrisome (recruiting, Woodson's comments on scheme, etc.).

 

So while it may be true that fans have less patience, it is also true that it is abundantly clear that Woodson isn't going to meet the standards he himself set (B1G and national championships). At which point, calls for a coaching change are completely understandable and reasonable.

[Home Jersey 5,530]

You guys, we're giving this thread a break.

The "cool" discourse these days, is in the Liam decommitting thread with Cathy.

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,204]

7 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

I do know the answer. Notice the trend. Patience runs lower each time, social media has grown more and it is a chain reaction that self feeds.

Fans have always been on message boards and while some players, few parents etc have participated, it is nothing like 1000s of tweets daily with recruits and players seeing it. Instagram has never been like Twitter. Covid brought about the acceleration of college recruits on Twitter through all the non- contact periods and finding ways to post videos and market themselves. That trend stayed and now what was once message board hate, now is in recruits faces daily. People can say they need to stay off it but this is how many of them make money. 

Thinking there is a single right answer is also flawed.

You could list 50 things Woody does wrong, be right that he needs to be fired and also cant ignore this reality either. Again, for those that always say it, we are not Uk. Don’t get same liberty.

This is not about 1 player. Multiple have said it. Guess they are all soft and all make it up. 

I guess I don’t understand why that is so hard for fans to just admit. It doesn’t make your anger any less valid. Doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be fired, doesn’t mean you are “at fault.” Can just be one of the things that has to improve. Multiple things can be true.

We brag about our solution media following! but don’t see how amplified that makes things.

We missed Fland, Queen, and the tournament because of the fans?   
 

UK isn’t the only fanbase that has negative media presence.  Every school that cares does.  And they reflect the product on the court. 
 

IUWBB have the same fans as IUBB?  
 

In general the IUWBB gets treated incredibly well on social media by the same fans.  
 

Not hard to figure out the difference. 

[AZ Hoosier 6,170]

I am not normally one to subscribe to the whole "great man theory" but if Cathy's commentary is any legitimate insight into how the administration at IU operates ... this place needs a savior to walk through the doors. 
Absolute gut punch to accept that. 

I don’t disagree at all. The issue as I see it is that the entire system, including the hierarchy is broken. The ‘savior’ is just one person. Plug that person into the broken system, nothing changes. Probs my that way since 1820. But you are 100% correct, it’s a broken system. It will continue to be broken for the foreseeable future, and Buckner and the BoT chairs before him have takes advantage of that broken system to hire their friends and obfuscate reality. I’m starting to think that is goes beyond nepotism and is bordering on criminal.

[JF87 1,413]

12 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

The fact that you and like 10’ of these replies made this about Liam is hilarious. Has zero to do with what I was saying. 

FYI - Liam was contacted plenty. That is more BS by Rabby (again). You all act like Liam got up and said this.

He also knew the system etc.but again, this isn’t about Liam.

I do agree that Walsh (or whichever assistant was the lead) had to be in contact with McNeeley regularly through texts and calls.  There's a good chance the communication issue has been embellished in some of the reports. 

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,204]

1 minute ago, Ngw7183 said:

Are we really going to play the game about who said what because your list is long on things you are have been wrong on in past couple weeks. 

Look, Woody lost him. I think the real reason comes down to the following and no, wasn’t the offense or not getting enough contact

- He wants to be on a winning team. Not a lot of recruits care about that as a priority now days but he does. His vision for that began to get dimmer when Boogie didn’t commit and then Queen didn’t.

- Self didn’t stop recruiting him and putting negative things in his ear which is easy to do. Think he was still ticked about MM and made this one personal.

- think Self made a big offer and Woody doesn’t believe in spending as much on freshman as top portal guys 

Woody doesn’t walk on water to me but I also think the manufactured outrage at everything is little ridiculous. You can want him fired and doesn’t diminish that point.

lol.  Long way of saying Woody didn’t fulfill his recruting pitch and the player lost confidence in him. 

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,204]

Just now, Ngw7183 said:

This isn’t about missing on recruits. Again, why can’t we accept it is a problem and our best years in modern times came when the fans backed off. 

Are you kidding me?  Fans backed off?  When did this ever happen?  Oh yeah, when the product on the court was good.  Which beget which. 

[IndyHoops 461]

20 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

I do know the answer. Notice the trend. Patience runs lower each time, social media has grown more and it is a chain reaction that self feeds.

Fans have always been on message boards and while some players, few parents etc have participated, it is nothing like 1000s of tweets daily with recruits and players seeing it. Instagram has never been like Twitter. Covid brought about the acceleration of college recruits on Twitter through all the non- contact periods and finding ways to post videos and market themselves. That trend stayed and now what was once message board hate, now is in recruits faces daily. People can say they need to stay off it but this is how many of them make money. 

Thinking there is a single right answer is also flawed.

You could list 50 things Woody does wrong, be right that he needs to be fired and also cant ignore this reality either. Again, for those that always say it, we are not Uk. Don’t get same liberty.

This is not about 1 player. Multiple have said it. Guess they are all soft and all make it up. 

I guess I don’t understand why that is so hard for fans to just admit. It doesn’t make your anger any less valid. Doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be fired, doesn’t mean you are “at fault.” Can just be one of the things that has to improve. Multiple things can be true.

We brag about our solution media following! but don’t see how amplified that makes things.

Another simple question….do you think any of this gets easier for Woodson next year? I keep going back to Mike Davis’s last year. If you think the fans are bad now, just wait. 
 

The only people comparing IU to UK, Duke, and Kansas are the pro-Woodson people. The fact is IU fans would be happy with what half the Big Ten has done in the last 10 years. This strawman argument that IU fans expect to be UK is the only thing pro-Woodson people have and it’s BS.

Edited March 9 by IndyHoops

[OKHOOSIER 1,902]

3 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

You guys, we're giving this thread a break.

The "cool" discourse these days, is in the Liam decommitting thread with Cathy.

Wait, we aren’t the cool thread anymore?? :(

[AZ Hoosier 6,170]

I’ve not given up.  Because it’s actually simple.
Just need someone that is dedicated to winning as much or more as the other stuff.  
NIL and financial support neutralizes some of the gap.
Hire a proven winner with a system and open the bank account and see what happens.  
 

No argument with this, but if Cathy can be believed, you have to ask how we can get past the continual bad moves, bad choices and abysmal hires for both FB and BB.

[yard_dog 34]

3 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

Are we really going to play the game about who said what because your list is long on things you are have been wrong on in past couple weeks. 

Look, Woody lost him. I think the real reason comes down to the following and no, wasn’t the offense or not getting enough contact

- He wants to be on a winning team. Not a lot of recruits care about that as a priority now days but he does. His vision for that began to get dimmer when Boogie didn’t commit and then Queen didn’t.

- Self didn’t stop recruiting him and putting negative things in his ear which is easy to do. Think he was still ticked about MM and made this one personal.

- think Self made a big offer and Woody doesn’t believe in spending as much on freshman as top portal guys 

Woody doesn’t walk on water to me but I also think the manufactured outrage at everything is little ridiculous. You can want him fired and doesn’t diminish that point.

Tend.to agree with all this.  I also think Mgbako is coming back and with rumors of Furphy of kansas going pro, LM sees a chance to start on their team next season.

[8bucks 6,208]

1 minute ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

lol.  Long way of saying Woody didn’t fulfill his recruting pitch and the player lost confidence in him. 

In a way you guys are saying the same thing. I remember you saying Liam wanted to be on a winning team for a long time.  NGW includes that too. Sure there might be a lot of other issues but as you said, we did not fulfill the vision we promoted (recruits and winning) and as you have been saying, he would always be a flight risk if we did not win