IUBB vs Army - Sunday, 11.12.23 @ 7:00 on BTN

[WayneFleekHoosier]

I feel like they are overthinking things in many circumstances.  I would just love to see a 3 point shot in transition from someone.  That will tell me they are loose.  We need to get out in transition a lot.  We will excel in that format because both our big guys can run.  

 

Well, while we are at it, scrap the defensive principle and the hockey subs please. 

[Stuhoo]

1 minute ago, go iu bb said:

psssh, what does Calbert Cheaney know? He only has the most points scored in B1G history while playing under one of the best coaches ever, spent a over a decade playing in the NBA, has been an assistance coach at both the NBA and NCAA levels, and is currently part of the staff that sees the players practice every day. So why should we listen to what he says? As an anonymous poster on the internet who never even played on my HS team, I think we should freak out after 2 games.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

Just now, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I feel like they are overthinking things in many circumstances.  I would just love to see a 3 point shot in transition from someone.  That will tell me they are loose.  We need to get out in transition a lot.  We will excel in that format because both our big guys can run.  

 

Well, while we are at it, scrap the defensive principle and the hockey subs please. 

I know people dismiss it, but playing for a rabid fanbase in front of 17,000 isn't for everyone.  Some of these guys are shellshocked.  We need to find the type of kid that relishes that environment.  

[IUCrazy2]

6 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

I'm not the only one, but I am among those who posted that this team was likely to take lumps in November, December, and maybe even January. And also that this team has a very high ceiling.

When I posted that prior to our first two games, I got a lot of 'likes' and no one pushed back.

Now that it is happening, the sky is not falling; it's exactly as expected.

• Stack some cupcake wins, even if they are close calls, while we are figuring it out.
• Stay healthy, especially with our guards; we're gonna need them all.
• Trust that a staff that includes a sh!t-ton of NBA and college experience has the collective tools to keep this group learning and motivated toward reaching something approaching their potential.
• Trust/hope that the staff can recognize and make adjustments to fit the personnel and to fit the way teams have been creating great three point looks against us.
• Trust that we have assembled a roster of really good kids that won't get resentful or play sad when they hit adversity.

And hopefully enjoy the results of a talented group that eventually has their collective light turn on.

Here is the thing though, you cannot take too many lumps early because you have a bar you have to be able to pass to make the late season "good team" have anything to play for....and NIT isn't something any of us care about right now.  With the roster turnover like it is, you aren't developing squat in the NIT.  Tournament or bust.

[IUCrazy2]

1 hour ago, Ngw7183 said:

So we need a kid to state publicly that if you are X or MM you get called thugs, not a leader, not a “smart player” and more that I won’t repeat here until we as fans realize it is a problem and needs to stop. The excuse that all fanbases do it such a passive approach.  Shouldn’t matter if it affects recruiting or not. 

you stated clearly you don’t go on Twitter. (Happens on here as well) Well, all these kids do and the comments are terrible. All while acting like the white kid never does wrong and not acknowledging he is limited.  Would just be nice to hear our “knowledgeable fanbase”  realize what the modern game takes to be successful. We need X, we need CJ, we need MM level athletes. Cupps is fine and will be a very solid 4 year guy. Measurable traits are what they are. (Speed, burst, etc) 

I will let it go as I know some are tired of hearing it. As a follow fan, do your best to squash those bias statements when you hear them. Read between the lines of what people say. All I ask. 

You are doing to Cupps what you accuse others of doing to X and MM....

[Stuhoo]

3 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Here is the thing though, you cannot take too many lumps early because you have a bar you have to be able to pass to make the late season "good team" have anything to play for....and NIT isn't something any of us care about right now.  With the roster turnover like it is, you aren't developing squat in the NIT.  Tournament or bust.

We are 2-0 and really likely to be 4-1 a week from now (that would include a win over Wright State, a loss to UConn, and a win over Louisville). 

That's why we can afford to take some lumps early, lose to UConn, Auburn, and Kansas, and still have a nice resume come March as long as we get our **** together and go over .500 in the B1G. And there's no guarantee that we'll lose all three marquee non-con games. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

2 hours ago, rcs29 said:

This is fair. It's also fair to acknowledge a player, especially with a personality type like Gabe, can progress into something nobody thought possible. Cupps has something in him competitively (not athletically) I haven't seen since Yogi. I'm not betting against Cupps for anything.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk
 

I doubt anyone figured Aaron Craft to become an All-Big Ten type player and one of the best perimeter defenders the conference has seen this century.

[IUCrazy2]

5 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

We are 2-0 and really likely to be 4-1 a week from now (that would include a win over Wright State, a loss to UConn, and a win over Louisville). 

That's why we can afford to take some lumps early, lose to UConn, Auburn, and Kansas, and still have a nice resume come March as long as we get our **** together and go over .500 in the B1G. And there's no guarantee that we'll lose all three marquee non-con games. 

That is possible, but we need to see massive improvement over the next 3 or so games.  Massive.  Neither of the two teams we beat are any good at all.  The score in each of those equates to a loss in my mind even if it doesn't show up on the stat sheet.  If you go and look t Crean's first two years, his team's didn't even struggle as bad against the worst of the bottom feeders in D1.

I think we have players and we can get it turned around, but that turn around has to happen by end of December, not January or later.  We have a tough schedule basically from Connecticut through the Big Ten.  There won't be many more gimmes coming up to get right and I don't know if this team has the mental toughness to get shellacked in Nov/Dec and not go down the tubes. 

[Dave from Dayton]

I'm not terribly worried about the IU team.  If they don't play good defense, Coach Woody will sit them.  If they don't hustle, Coach will sit them.  If they don't play the play, then samo.

I am concerned, but worrying never got anybody anything.

I think that there will be some motivational factors applied this week and next.

I'm watching Wright State tonight at 7 playing Toledo on ESPN+.  Then I likely will change my prediction for the first time evah.  

You know what I want to see?  Ware stopping  POTFB's Edey down the road.  

I'd much rather have hope than worry.

I much prefer emulating Don Quixote than Eeyore. 

[Golfman25]

38 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

We are 2-0 and really likely to be 4-1 a week from now (that would include a win over Wright State, a loss to UConn, and a win over Louisville). 

That's why we can afford to take some lumps early, lose to UConn, Auburn, and Kansas, and still have a nice resume come March as long as we get our **** together and go over .500 in the B1G. And there's no guarantee that we'll lose all three marquee non-con games. 

We are going to beat one of those teams.  Book it, dano.  :) 

[Stuhoo]

36 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Neither of the two teams we beat are any good at all.  The score in each of those equates to a loss in my mind even if it doesn't show up on the stat sheet.  If you go and look t Crean's first two years, his team's didn't even struggle as bad against the worst of the bottom feeders in D1.

1) FGCU is 139 in KenPom. They are a solid basketball team. Army basketball is very bad. 

2) In Crean's first two years we beat Chaminade by 2, beat IUPUI by 2, had a late run to beat South Carolina Upstate by 7, AND...

• lost to Northeastern by 13,
• lost to Lipscomb by 5,
• lost to Boston U by 4,
• lost to George Mason by 3,
• and lost to Loyola of Maryland by 5.

None of those teams were as good as FGCU is supposed to be this year.

[str8baller]

30 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

That is possible, but we need to see massive improvement over the next 3 or so games.  Massive.  Neither of the two teams we beat are any good at all.  The score in each of those equates to a loss in my mind even if it doesn't show up on the stat sheet.  If you go and look t Crean's first two years, his team's didn't even struggle as bad against the worst of the bottom feeders in D1.

I think we have players and we can get it turned around, but that turn around has to happen by end of December, not January or later.  We have a tough schedule basically from Connecticut through the Big Ten.  There won't be many more gimmes coming up to get right and I don't know if this team has the mental toughness to get shellacked in Nov/Dec and not go down the tubes. 

If I were looking for a positive, I’d say 1) FGCU likely isn’t that bad and lots of teams have struggled early. 
 

2) Woody is giving guys reps. It’s a slog. But the last 8-10min when he plays his core 5-6 guys (and yes that’s been Cupps so far) we’ve pulled away pretty easily. 

[coonhounds]

From Calbert Cheaney:

• On Indiana’s win over Army on Sunday: “Still got a long way to go. There’s a lot of new faces… last night Army came in with a mindset that ‘we’re gonna come at you guys’…The guys underestimated them.”

• Cheaney said he thinks the team has responded after the tough week but mentioned a potential disconnect between understanding the film in practice and in the film room to translating it to the game.

• Cheaney implored for the need to contest shots from beyond the arc. He said that there’s a notable dropoff in shooting percentage when shots are contested. He mentioned Indiana’s defensive mantra, that whenever someone catches the ball, they need to have a hand on him.

• On Indiana’s 3-point shooting, Cheaney thinks Indiana has the shooters to be dangerous. “We have some guys that can really shoot the ball, I think more so than last year.”

• On five-star freshman Mackenzie Mgbako: “(He needs to) continue to understand how the game is played… college game is totally different from high school. Pay attention to the details of what coach (Woodson) wants him to do, he’ll be fine.”

• Cheaney said this year’s team is more talented than last year’s IU team. “We’re bigger, we’re more athletic, we’re longer… Stay with us, we’re working on it.”

• Cheaney on freshman point guard Gabe Cupps: “We call him Iron Man … He’s got one of the best work ethics I’ve ever seen … He’s not the biggest kid, he’s not the fastest kid, but he makes up for it with a huge heart and determination. And that’s rare.”

Thanks for this. I was trying to listen last night but had to go get my kid in the bath and missed this. It gives me Hope they can and will fix this

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[TheWatShot]

18 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

1) FGCU is 139 in KenPom. They are a solid basketball team. Army basketball is very bad. 

2) In Crean's first two years we beat Chaminade by 2, beat IUPUI by 2, had a late run to beat South Carolina Upstate by 7, AND...

• lost to Northeastern by 13,
• lost to Lipscomb by 5,
• lost to Boston U by 4,
• lost to George Mason by 3,
• and lost to Loyola of Maryland by 5.

None of those teams were as good as FGCU is supposed to be this year.

The Loyola game, I think we got down 15-0 to start the game and didn't score for more than six minutes. That was also before Maurice Creek was injured. 

[go iu bb]

22 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

1) FGCU is 139 in KenPom. They are a solid basketball team. Army basketball is very bad. 

2) In Crean's first two years we beat Chaminade by 2, beat IUPUI by 2, had a late run to beat South Carolina Upstate by 7, AND...

• lost to Northeastern by 13,
• lost to Lipscomb by 5,
• lost to Boston U by 4,
• lost to George Mason by 3,
• and lost to Loyola of Maryland by 5.

None of those teams were as good as FGCU is supposed to be this year.

1) I agree. They're not that bad but it's also a bit early to go by KenPom.

2) Why are you comparing this team to Crean's first two years? Both of those teams were terrible so them losing to bad teams wasn't surprising. To me it seems like it would be to point out when teams that were actually good struggled or lost against bad teams early in the year.

[sweetpain]

1) FGCU is 139 in KenPom. They are a solid basketball team. Army basketball is very bad. 
2) In Crean's first two years we beat Chaminade by 2, beat IUPUI by 2, had a late run to beat South Carolina Upstate by 7, AND...

• lost to Northeastern by 13,
• lost to Lipscomb by 5,
• lost to Boston U by 4,
• lost to George Mason by 3,
• and lost to Loyola of Maryland by 5.

None of those teams were as good as FGCU is supposed to be this year.

I was at the Lipscomb game why are bringing that back up, Awful!

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[Home Jersey]

3 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

From Calbert Cheaney:

• On Indiana’s win over Army on Sunday: “Still got a long way to go. There’s a lot of new faces… last night Army came in with a mindset that ‘we’re gonna come at you guys’…The guys underestimated them.”

• Cheaney said he thinks the team has responded after the tough week but mentioned a potential disconnect between understanding the film in practice and in the film room to translating it to the game.

• Cheaney implored for the need to contest shots from beyond the arc. He said that there’s a notable dropoff in shooting percentage when shots are contested. He mentioned Indiana’s defensive mantra, that whenever someone catches the ball, they need to have a hand on him.

• On Indiana’s 3-point shooting, Cheaney thinks Indiana has the shooters to be dangerous. “We have some guys that can really shoot the ball, I think more so than last year.”

• On five-star freshman Mackenzie Mgbako: “(He needs to) continue to understand how the game is played… college game is totally different from high school. Pay attention to the details of what coach (Woodson) wants him to do, he’ll be fine.”

• Cheaney said this year’s team is more talented than last year’s IU team. “We’re bigger, we’re more athletic, we’re longer… Stay with us, we’re working on it.”

• Cheaney on freshman point guard Gabe Cupps: “We call him Iron Man … He’s got one of the best work ethics I’ve ever seen … He’s not the biggest kid, he’s not the fastest kid, but he makes up for it with a huge heart and determination. And that’s rare.”

I have a sense that Gabe Cupps work ethic is going to pay dividends in a lot of ways over the course of his career... the first potentially being something we will not witness up close, but will become obvious on the court if/when Mack gets it together this season. Not taking anything away from Mack at all, any improvement he makes will be because of his own hard work. When you think about the environment he's in - as Cheaney said - the college game being totally different from high school... 

He is personally experiencing the early struggles a lot of talented freshmen do when playing D1 basketball. It's a bigger learning curve than people expected right now... That's not because of his physical tools (some people are calling him slow... he's looked more timid than slow IMHO... sure he doesn't have trailblazing speed but wouldn't call that his primary issue right now).

He's clearly stated his goal of being 1 and done and obviously understands that's not the trajectory he's currently on. So it's a very simple question of whether he is willing to put in the work. Mack previously mentioned he was really surprised/impressed by Cupps in the summer and referenced his work ethic. Now he's riding pine while the lower rated, less physically gifted kid plays. If a coach has to motivate you under those circumstances, that's a totally separate issue.

As a competitor, Cupps is only pushing him to get better. He's got a strong grasp of the concepts, and as a great teammate, I'm sure he is very much working with Mack to get locked in. Mack has shown he is willing to put in the work before (his improvement in HS was insane and you don't get called one of our best shooters ever by a former player unless you've spent 1000s of hours on your craft). So why would he stop now? Again, physical tools look there to me for the most part and it's mostly the mental side that's got to catch up right now. 

I recall in an interview he did, he was kind of embarrassed about "not being a morning person" and his trainer assuring him a lot of pros also don't do the whole "Mamba style 5am workouts" because they prefer to train at night. Cupps puts in his own workout before the team workouts... would be cool for Mack to start joining him after making the realization he's got to work harder at this than he ever has before. But truth be told, I don't care what time of the day they put in their work as long as they're pushing themselves to get better every day.

I hope Mack specifically is getting a crap ton of defensive reps in and studying the concepts so he can move more confidently on the court. Some of it is definitely because of the Kopp role too... but we'll see how things progress over the course of the season. 

[RaceToTheTop]

2 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

I doubt anyone figured Aaron Craft to become an All-Big Ten type player and one of the best perimeter defenders the conference has seen this century.

Chris Kramer and Aaron Craft were both great defenders.

Threw up in mouth a little.

[Hoosier987]

6 hours ago, BGleas said:

I think MM needs to get time at the 4. He clearly a college 4 and needs to be in that role. We're wasting his offensively by having him in the "Kopp stand in the corner role". 

On Cupps and Gunn we couldn't disagree more. Cupps has shown more in two games than Gunn has shown in 1 year and two games. It's not even close. 

Cupps has All-Conference potential. I'm don't want to write the kid off, but Gunn has massive, massive improvements to make. 

Love how you phrase the “Kopp stand in the corner roll.” Spot on. 

Regarding paragraph 2…couldn’t agree more. Been saying several times that Gunn has shown little in his 1+ years to be counted on consistently against quality opponents. 

[HoosierHoopster]

2 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

1) FGCU is 139 in KenPom. They are a solid basketball team. Army basketball is very bad. 

2) In Crean's first two years we beat Chaminade by 2, beat IUPUI by 2, had a late run to beat South Carolina Upstate by 7, AND...

• lost to Northeastern by 13,
• lost to Lipscomb by 5,
• lost to Boston U by 4,
• lost to George Mason by 3,
• and lost to Loyola of Maryland by 5.

None of those teams were as good as FGCU is supposed to be this year.

I know where you’re coming from but first 2 years? First year with no scholarship players and having to play baseball / walkon players, not in any way comparable.

We have major talent on this team and are playing terrible basketball. Really, really bad ball. I’m an IU optimist, a glass half full guy, but the system CMW is playing right now should change, and the God awful perimeter D must be fixed. Staff takes at least some of the blame for this bad basketball