NIL and IU

[JSHoosier]

32 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

Student athletes and supporters have been fighting for NIL for a long time. I’m not against NIL. But that isn’t what we have here - that is the issue.

if TJD wants to sell T-Shirts that say TJD or appear in an EA college basketball video game or star in a commercial he should be able to. That notion exists upon the market wanting him for him, his NIL. Next to none of that is happening. The organic market for these players isn’t strong, what is strong is the schools artificially making a market for them based on other pretenses. That bothers me.

A player should be able to capitalize on their NIL and some organically are but the vast majority of the money being negotiated is by the schools in a pay for play scheme and that was not what was fought for nor agreed to. That makes them pros and it is no longer college/amateur. They are effectively now on salary.

Fought for NIL for decades, NIL is approved and within minutes it’s gone and replaced with PFP. We can argue that PFP has been around forever and it has but why approve NIL when what you are effectively doing is approving PFP? Just call it what it is

In an ideal world, sure it'd strictly be about NIL.  It was always going to turn into a legal means of paying players though because this world isn't ideal; a business owners or marketing person was sooner or later going to use it to get players to their favorite school or alama mater.

[MikeRoberts]

1 hour ago, JSHoosier said:

In an ideal world, sure it'd strictly be about NIL.  It was always going to turn into a legal means of paying players though because this world isn't ideal; a business owners or marketing person was sooner or later going to use it to get players to their favorite school or alama mater.

I understand what you are saying but that’s in part why the rules were what they were for so long, so people wouldn’t take advantage. Many were doing It already in the dark and now everyone is. 

it’s just silly at this point to call it NIL, it’s PFP and everyone knows it and that essentially is the death of the ncaa and collegiate sports. They are no longer amateurs. It may not collapse today but everything has changed and I don’t think we’ve even scratched the surface of what these changes will mean for IU/the NCAA and everything we have known and loved. It was never perfect but I think this thing is going to go to hell in a hand basket real quick

[JSHoosier]

You're right, it was in the dark before and this just brings it in the light.  Frankly, I would be floored if any winning programs are "clean", I'd expect varying degrees of dirty.

At least now IU can drop than holier than thou stuff and try to compete.

[Hoosierfan2017]

I liked NIL and still do but this is… not great. With it + automatic transfers, every player in college basketball is on a 1 year contract every year and can just go to the highest bidder in the offseason. A player like Pack getting $800k is crazy to me. Zion got $400k under the table, and that was for a generational player. Pack’s not worth that much in NIL, but it’s a drop in the bucket for a rich booster so might as well pay it to marginally improve your team. 

[RaceToTheTop]

1 hour ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I liked NIL and still do but this is… not great. With it + automatic transfers, every player in college basketball is on a 1 year contract every year and can just go to the highest bidder in the offseason. A player like Pack getting $800k is crazy to me. Zion got $400k under the table, and that was for a generational player. Pack’s not worth that much in NIL, but it’s a drop in the bucket for a rich booster so might as well pay it to marginally improve your team. 

Yes.  individually, I'm okay with:

1.  Automatic transfers.

2.  NIL or PFP, whatever you want to call it.

But.....having both together produces issues.  

[PB1230]

1 hour ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I liked NIL and still do but this is… not great. With it + automatic transfers, every player in college basketball is on a 1 year contract every year and can just go to the highest bidder in the offseason. A player like Pack getting $800k is crazy to me. Zion got $400k under the table, and that was for a generational player. Pack’s not worth that much in NIL, but it’s a drop in the bucket for a rich booster so might as well pay it to marginally improve your team. 

But players still only get 1 auto transfer so it’s not really a year to year contract. And by and large, most transfers we are seeing likely would have happened with or without NIL money, although just having an impact on where they land.

Hell, I think we are seeing NIL slow down potential transfers with a lot of players deciding to stick with their current school because of NIL deals

[jk34]

Thank goodness we have the staff and AD support, to navigate through this mess. I believe CMW has the ability/experience to balance the NIL/PFP and the name on the front of the jersey. Having a veteran NBA coach is a huge advantage dealing with these issues.

Very rare to see multi million dollar professional athletes, giving a heartfelt farewell to a coach, without a HOF resume. Love or hate his X's and O's, this man is the right guy, at the right time.

 

[Hoosierfan2017]

1 hour ago, PB1230 said:

But players still only get 1 auto transfer so it’s not really a year to year contract. And by and large, most transfers we are seeing likely would have happened with or without NIL money, although just having an impact on where they land.

Hell, I think we are seeing NIL slow down potential transfers with a lot of players deciding to stick with their current school because of NIL deals

For now, but we’ve seen the NCAA grant immediate eligibility for guys who have played at/transferred from multiple schools. For example, James Akinjo has played for three schools in three years. 

[Josh]

18 hours ago, MikeRoberts said:

it’s just silly at this point to call it NIL, it’s PFP and everyone knows it and that essentially is the death of the ncaa and collegiate sports. 

Adapt or due brother.  This isn't the death of collegiate sports.  These kids just have money in their pockets now.  I don't know why people are getting so upset tbh

[Hoosierfan2017]

2 hours ago, Josh said:

Adapt or due brother.  This isn't the death of collegiate sports.  These kids just have money in their pockets now.  I don't know why people are getting so upset tbh

Because it’s quickly went from players being paid for their NIL to players signing with the highest bidding school. Teams are basically buying players now through donor intermediaries. So you have a system that’s even more wide open than the NBA or the NFL. No salary cap, no max contract, and every player is on a one year deal. Massive discrepancies in the amounts each team can pay that you don’t see in the NFL or NBA. 

When you have a billionaire donor announce an $800k + new car deal with a transfer recruit minutes after he signs, any illusion of this being anything other than pay for play is shattered. Then you have reports of Lincoln Riley and USC tampering to get a kid from Pitt by offering more in NIL. Whenever an IUFB player has a breakout year are we going to lose him right after because one of the blue bloods will offer a stack of cash? I’m starting to not like it in its present form. 

[Stuhoo]

2 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Because it’s quickly went from players being paid for their NIL to players signing with the highest bidding school. Teams are basically buying players now through donor intermediaries. So you have a system that’s even more wide open than the NBA or the NFL. No salary cap, no max contract, and every player is on a one year contract.

When you have a billionaire donor announce an $800k + new car deal with a transfer recruit minutes after he signs, any illusion of this being anything other than pay for play is shattered. Then you have reports of Lincoln Riley and USC tampering to get a kid from Pitt by offering more in NIL. Whenever an IUFB player has a breakout year are we going to lose him right after because one of the blue bloods will offer a stack of cash? I’m starting to not like it in its present form. 

 

Am I oversimplifying this, or would a one-year sit after transfer with full NIL privileges completely address the ability for players to profit off of their name, but eliminate free agency with no restrictions?

 

[IUc2016]

2 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

Am I oversimplifying this, or would a one-year sit after transfer with full NIL privileges completely address the ability for players to profit off of their name, but eliminate free agency with no restrictions?

 

I am an agreement with this. I think players having the ability to profit of their own name is common sense.

However, I still like the sit out transfer rules. It's not the popular opinion but these kids transferring 2-3 times can't be good for anybody. 

[Hovadipo]

11 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Because it’s quickly went from players being paid for their NIL to players signing with the highest bidding school. Teams are basically buying players now through donor intermediaries. So you have a system that’s even more wide open than the NBA or the NFL. No salary cap, no max contract, and every player is on a one year deal. Massive discrepancies in the amounts each team can pay that you don’t see in the NFL or NBA. 

When you have a billionaire donor announce an $800k + new car deal with a transfer recruit minutes after he signs, any illusion of this being anything other than pay for play is shattered. Then you have reports of Lincoln Riley and USC tampering to get a kid from Pitt by offering more in NIL. Whenever an IUFB player has a breakout year are we going to lose him right after because one of the blue bloods will offer a stack of cash? I’m starting to not like it in its present form. 

This is kind of how it’s always been though, just now under the guise of being within the rules and reaching a little lower quality of player (guys like Pack). Transfer tampering isn’t new either, but definitely has become crazier with the portal. No denying it’s all a mess, but it’s the same mess as it always has been being played out in public. 
 

It’s pretty crazy when coaches are telling reporters that they wish they could go back to when it was just good old fashioned cheating lol. 

[MikeRoberts]

3 hours ago, Josh said:

Adapt or due brother.  This isn't the death of collegiate sports.  These kids just have money in their pockets now.  I don't know why people are getting so upset tbh

It isn’t dying today but we have leaped closer to that. College basketball and football are no longer amateur sports, they are now pros. We will see a ton of change over the next 20 years that leads the game farther and farther away from what it has been as an ncaa college sport and closer to some hodge lodge of the nba or d-league.

we can all adapt until we all die… this isn’t going anywhere good

[str8baller]

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

 

Am I oversimplifying this, or would a one-year sit after transfer with full NIL privileges completely address the ability for players to profit off of their name, but eliminate free agency with no restrictions?

 

That seems sensible. Maybe build in some exceptions and get a rational policy for waivers with a NCAA board that actually knows what they’re doing. Yes, I’m aware the later is basically asking for a unicorn for my birthday but maybe with new leadership we can get some competency.  
 

There’s still a transactional agreement with the school/NCAA when it comes to scholarships. I don’t see why you can’t reign in the transfer portal a bit. 
 

Such a system should bring some stability but allow the players to earn as much as they can. 

[Josh]

9 hours ago, MikeRoberts said:

It isn’t dying today but we have leaped closer to that. College basketball and football are no longer amateur sports, they are now pros. We will see a ton of change over the next 20 years that leads the game farther and farther away from what it has been as an ncaa college sport and closer to some hodge lodge of the nba or d-league.

we can all adapt until we all die… this isn’t going anywhere good

Again...who cares?  Everything adapts and changes.  If you're going to shake your fist at change, you're going to become a grumpy old man.  

If it died for you, good luck to whatever you move on to.  Hopefully it never changes and you never have to go through this again.  There are plenty of us who don't fear progress who will be here to watch college basketball into the future.

[Brass Cannon]

27 minutes ago, Josh said:

Again...who cares?  Everything adapts and changes.  If you're going to shake your fist at change, you're going to become a grumpy old man.  

If it died for you, good luck to whatever you move on to.  Hopefully it never changes and you never have to go through this again.  There are plenty of us who don't fear progress who will be here to watch college basketball into the future.

Agreed. I don’t get why people are so doom and gloom. This isn’t new. Why do people care now that it’s out in the open. The game wasn’t pure simply because the kids couldn’t talk about the money they were getting. 

[IU Scott]

40 minutes ago, Josh said:

Again...who cares?  Everything adapts and changes.  If you're going to shake your fist at change, you're going to become a grumpy old man.  

If it died for you, good luck to whatever you move on to.  Hopefully it never changes and you never have to go through this again.  There are plenty of us who don't fear progress who will be here to watch college basketball into the future.

Don't fear progress if it is for the good but what is happening to the college game is not fir the better.

[Brass Cannon]

16 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Don't fear progress if it is for the good but what is happening to the college game is not fir the better.

We can play by the rules and take advantage of our market size to finally dig our program out of the gutter. I’d say better is subjective at this point 

[RaceToTheTop]

11 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

 

Am I oversimplifying this, or would a one-year sit after transfer with full NIL privileges completely address the ability for players to profit off of their name, but eliminate free agency with no restrictions?

 

Except.....I think that it wouldn't stand up in a court of law.  The transfer rule went largely unchallenged for decades but I think the tide is turning on who has control in terms of athletic rules.  Students transfer for school to school all the time without being restricted....not sure having an all-encompassing rule for athletic teams would fly legally.