2022-2023 IUBB Roster Projection

[HoosierTrav]

7 hours ago, mbredenk101 said:

I don't know.....the college game has changed. Get as much talent as possible with all 13. We saw what it looked like when we were 5 players down at NW. If practices are packed with talent, it just makes everyone better. However, someone has to be the worst out of 13. Maybe LD is the better example of this than Leal. LD didn't even play in that game at NW.

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You can’t have a team full of 13 guys who should be rotation guys. You will end up with awful team chemistry. We need guys on the bench who are willing and enthusiastic about accepting their roles. Dysfunction awaits otherwise. 

[RaceToTheTop]

4 hours ago, MikeRoberts said:

No… our front court played the entire 40 minutes and was gassed despite their being a scholarship player on the bench available.

the guards got a breather, from a walk on…

Not sure why that is hard to comprehend - our front court NEVER played the entire game before or after that, they usually get a breather and could have that game but coach opted to run them into the ground vs put Logan Duncomb in even for 1 play

TJD and Race didn't play 40 minutes that night.  Trayce played 39 minutes, Race played 36.  JG played 17.  JG likely would have played more but picked up 4 fouls.

FWIW, There was 14 minutes that night that Trayce, Race, and JG were all on the floor.  Small sample space, but IU was +13.9 points per 100 possessions when JG was at the 3 and Northwestern had an effective field goal percentage of 21%.

[HoosierHoopster]

12 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

TJD and Race didn't play 40 minutes that night.  Trayce played 39 minutes, Race played 36.  JG played 17.  JG likely would have played more but picked up 4 fouls.

FWIW, There was 14 minutes that night that Trayce, Race, and JG were all on the floor.  Small sample space, but IU was +13.9 points per 100 possessions when JG was at the 3 and Northwestern had an effective field goal percentage of 21%.

But it’s bern stated in this thread that JG never plated a minute at the 3….

[MikeRoberts]

14 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

TJD and Race didn't play 40 minutes that night.  Trayce played 39 minutes, Race played 36.  JG played 17.  JG likely would have played more but picked up 4 fouls.

FWIW, There was 14 minutes that night that Trayce, Race, and JG were all on the floor.  Small sample space, but IU was +13.9 points per 100 possessions when JG was at the 3 and Northwestern had an effective field goal percentage of 21%.

That is correct. While I was wrong on Race and Trayce playing 40 minutes, it was pretty close, 5 minutes on the bench total between the two of them and then that means the front court got a total of 5 minutes rest and the back court got 17. 
none of those minutes went to logan Duncomb who was available to play. 17 to Geronimo who played more in the front court and a walk on who also played in the front court.

JG performing well at the 3 is another story, but LG getting zero run at the 4 or 5 when we were severely outnumbered is baffling 

[BGleas]

6 hours ago, HoosierHoopster said:

But it’s bern stated in this thread that JG never plated a minute at the 3….

Sorry, didn't think I needed to point out "except for the game where half the team was suspended". 

[Honkyman]

Not sure anyone claimed that Geronimo never played a minute at the 3. I believe the thrust of what many have said is that Geronimo is most effective at the 4. His rebounding abilities and knack on the offensive end for putting back missed shots make him especially valuable playing the 4. He also lacks the ball handling and shooting skills to be as effective at the 3 as at the 4. 

[CSP]

7 hours ago, MikeRoberts said:

That is correct. While I was wrong on Race and Trayce playing 40 minutes, it was pretty close, 5 minutes on the bench total between the two of them and then that means the front court got a total of 5 minutes rest and the back court got 17. 
none of those minutes went to logan Duncomb who was available to play. 17 to Geronimo who played more in the front court and a walk on who also played in the front court.

JG performing well at the 3 is another story, but LG getting zero run at the 4 or 5 when we were severely outnumbered is baffling 

Its not really. He wasn't needed. We had plenty of front court depth that night. 

[CSP]

36 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Sorry, didn't think I needed to point out "except for the game where half the team was suspended". 

Against a bottom dweller B1G team

[mjeze106]

13 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Against a bottom dweller B1G team

Where we lost

[IU Scott]

8 hours ago, HoosierHoops1 said:

Kansas had 14.

Can't have 14 scholarship players

[Uspshoosier]

6 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Can't have 14 scholarship players

They could last year with a super senior because of the extra Covid year just like IU could of had 15 scholarship players last year if Al and Joey decided to stay 

[Tasmanian Devil]

6 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Can't have 14 scholarship players

Normally, no.

Lightfoot was an allowed “Super Senior” due to the extra year of eligibility to all players from the pandemic.

[PB1230]

1 hour ago, btownqb said:

Against a bottom dweller B1G team

that had no advance notice about half the team being out and no chance to develop a game plan to attack/defend JG at the 3

[NashvilleHoosier]

10 hours ago, RaceToTheTop said:

I can’t wait until SHJ feeds DJT an alley oop.

In this scenario, wouldn't it be an alley poo? 

 

...I'll see myself out.

[Hovadipo]

4 minutes ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

In this scenario, wouldn't it be an alley poo? 

 

...I'll see myself out.

Think it might be more of a post-juice cleanse "yella poo"...

[HoosierFan1994]

Regardless, we should know a lot more by the end of the month. Doesn't the portal window close May 1st? IF someone is leaving our program they will have done so by then correct? Plus draft combine invites will be sent out soon. If Trayce doesn't receiver one I think we will know his decision. 

[RaceToTheTop]

10 hours ago, MikeRoberts said:

That is correct. While I was wrong on Race and Trayce playing 40 minutes, it was pretty close, 5 minutes on the bench total between the two of them and then that means the front court got a total of 5 minutes rest and the back court got 17. 
none of those minutes went to logan Duncomb who was available to play. 17 to Geronimo who played more in the front court and a walk on who also played in the front court.

JG performing well at the 3 is another story, but LG getting zero run at the 4 or 5 when we were severely outnumbered is baffling 

I understood your point.  Was just pointing out a small mistake in your post.

[HoosierHoopster]

4 hours ago, BGleas said:

Sorry, didn't think I needed to point out "except for the game where half the team was suspended". 

You said he never even got a look on the wing, which wasn't true, but that's just quibbling lol. 

You know I love you my friend, but imo you're arguing a point that people really aren't arguing. You argue he has hasn't played the wing, if he was a wing he would've gotten minutes on the wing, that this argument is the Smith/OG/Troy Williams debate again. But I don't see people saying look at him, he's a wing right now, he has been playing wing,  or Troy or Smith was a wing. The discussion (at least on my end) has been more that he has the skills, WITH development of his handle -- really the most important improvement area needed, and that goes to his relatively high TO's per 100 possessions (but his usage is high) -- and the length, quickness, athleticism, and shot form/demonstrated outside shooting already, to add wing/perimeter play. Btw, imo including Smith here is not warranted, Smith's games was miles different, dude couldn't shoot to save his life, had no outside skills at all, absolutely never should've been played on the perimeter,  man CAM was just awful.

You heavily critiqued JG's D in guarding the perimeter. I see things differently. 

DRtg -  94.6, 3d on team not counting Childress and Duncomb. There's no stat of course for just perimeter D. Point is he has all the tools defensively and the athleticism, he's an exceptional defender, including demonstrated 3-point D, but needs experience guarding the perimeter, switches, p&r, etc. to improve his perimeter D. It's positional knowledge, imo, not ability, just as in his frosh year and beginning of soph year he'd get lost, but with game experience he improved significantly, so too can he do that on the wing. In contrast, Kopp has the positional knowledge, it's where he plays, but he lacks almost everything else outside of good effort (his effort is solid). He moves his feet well, but lacks lateral quickness, length, etc. Kopp's TO numbers, which you contrasted, are virtually meaningless-- his usage numbers are at the bottom of the team. He's just a spot up shooter who mostly stands in place, he almost never handled the ball, so his TO's are low (but again no dispute that JG's handle must improve ).

What I see and I think most debating the point is the offense JG could be adding with more perimeter / wing play (contrasting Kopp here would be laughable, he added virtually nothing). 

Pts per 40: 13.8, 4th on team. (OK Kopp 10th, not counting Childress and Duncomb)

ORtg - 102,.8, 5th not counting Leal (minutes)

USG% - 19.6, 5th not counting Duncomb, and btw Kopp was 14.4 - good for 10th w/o Duncomb -- again, Kopp barely handled the ball, so sure his TO's are low. So JG's handle has to improve , but he's already 5th on team in usage, that says a Hell of a lot - more than Rob, Galloway, Bates, etc.

FG% - 51.8, 3d

OWS - .5, 5th 

eFG% - .559, 3d not counting Childress

3Pt - 31%, form is there, hit several big shots, I'd bank on that improving well, just like Vic's did, btw, OG's now a pro SF, with versatility plays both SF and PF, he's a 3-4, imo that's exactly what JG can be.

 

 

[CSP]

21 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

You said he never even got a look on the wing, which wasn't true, but that's just quibbling lol. 

You know I love you my friend, but imo you're arguing a point that people really aren't arguing. You argue he has hasn't played the wing, if he was a wing he would've gotten minutes on the wing, that this argument is the Smith/OG/Troy Williams debate again. But I don't see people saying look at him, he's a wing right now, he has been playing wing,  or Troy or Smith was a wing. The discussion (at least on my end) has been more that he has the skills, WITH development of his handle -- really the most important improvement area needed, and that goes to his relatively high TO's per 100 possessions (but his usage is high) -- and the length, quickness, athleticism, and shot form/demonstrated outside shooting already, to add wing/perimeter play. Btw, imo including Smith here is not warranted, Smith's games was miles different, dude couldn't shoot to save his life, had no outside skills at all, absolutely never should've been played on the perimeter,  man CAM was just awful.

You heavily critiqued JG's D in guarding the perimeter. I see things differently. 

DRtg -  94.6, 3d on team not counting Childress and Duncomb. There's no stat of course for just perimeter D. Point is he has all the tools defensively and the athleticism, he's an exceptional defender, including demonstrated 3-point D, but needs experience guarding the perimeter, switches, p&r, etc. to improve his perimeter D. It's positional knowledge, imo, not ability, just as in his frosh year and beginning of soph year he'd get lost, but with game experience he improved significantly, so too can he do that on the wing. In contrast, Kopp has the positional knowledge, it's where he plays, but he lacks almost everything else outside of good effort (his effort is solid). He moves his feet well, but lacks lateral quickness, length, etc. Kopp's TO numbers, which you contrasted, are virtually meaningless-- his usage numbers are at the bottom of the team. He's just a spot up shooter who mostly stands in place, he almost never handled the ball, so his TO's are low (but again no dispute that JG's handle must improve ).

What I see and I think most debating the point is the offense JG could be adding with more perimeter / wing play (contrasting Kopp here would be laughable, he added virtually nothing). 

Pts per 40: 13.8, 4th on team. (OK Kopp 10th, not counting Childress and Duncomb)

ORtg - 102,.8, 5th not counting Leal (minutes)

USG% - 19.6, 5th not counting Duncomb, and btw Kopp was 14.4 - good for 10th w/o Duncomb -- again, Kopp barely handled the ball, so sure his TO's are low. So JG's handle has to improve , but he's already 5th on team in usage, that says a Hell of a lot - more than Rob, Galloway, Bates, etc.

FG% - 51.8, 3d

OWS - .5, 5th 

eFG% - .559, 3d not counting Childress

3Pt - 31%, form is there, hit several big shots, I'd bank on that improving well, just like Vic's did, btw, OG's now a pro SF, with versatility plays both SF and PF, he's a 3-4, imo that's exactly what JG can be.

 

 

So, all of that just told me he played solid at the 4.... he just struggled with foul trouble a little, having two really good players in front of him, and there were games (Syracuse being the most notable) he flat out could not play in for whatever reason. He was absolutely a walking TO in that game and it was as if he had never touched a ball vs. a zone defense before. All of that led to him not getting as many mins as he probably had hoped. 

I see very little difference in Smith and JG's games on the offensive end, other than JG has a better-looking shot. Defensively, JG just isn't in the same sentence as JS. I have a hard time seeing any OG in his game, OG was just immensely better than JG at this point in time. 

I don't really see any sort of an advantage that JG could create on the perimeter at this point in time because he hasn't shown even the remote resemblance of a perimeter game... on the offensive or defensive end. Blocks shots and dunks well though. 

[PB1230]

25 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

You said he never even got a look on the wing, which wasn't true, but that's just quibbling lol. 

You know I love you my friend, but imo you're arguing a point that people really aren't arguing. You argue he has hasn't played the wing, if he was a wing he would've gotten minutes on the wing, that this argument is the Smith/OG/Troy Williams debate again. But I don't see people saying look at him, he's a wing right now, he has been playing wing,  or Troy or Smith was a wing. The discussion (at least on my end) has been more that he has the skills, WITH development of his handle -- really the most important improvement area needed, and that goes to his relatively high TO's per 100 possessions (but his usage is high) -- and the length, quickness, athleticism, and shot form/demonstrated outside shooting already, to add wing/perimeter play. Btw, imo including Smith here is not warranted, Smith's games was miles different, dude couldn't shoot to save his life, had no outside skills at all, absolutely never should've been played on the perimeter,  man CAM was just awful.

You heavily critiqued JG's D in guarding the perimeter. I see things differently. 

DRtg -  94.6, 3d on team not counting Childress and Duncomb. There's no stat of course for just perimeter D. Point is he has all the tools defensively and the athleticism, he's an exceptional defender, including demonstrated 3-point D, but needs experience guarding the perimeter, switches, p&r, etc. to improve his perimeter D. It's positional knowledge, imo, not ability, just as in his frosh year and beginning of soph year he'd get lost, but with game experience he improved significantly, so too can he do that on the wing. In contrast, Kopp has the positional knowledge, it's where he plays, but he lacks almost everything else outside of good effort (his effort is solid). He moves his feet well, but lacks lateral quickness, length, etc. Kopp's TO numbers, which you contrasted, are virtually meaningless-- his usage numbers are at the bottom of the team. He's just a spot up shooter who mostly stands in place, he almost never handled the ball, so his TO's are low (but again no dispute that JG's handle must improve ).

What I see and I think most debating the point is the offense JG could be adding with more perimeter / wing play (contrasting Kopp here would be laughable, he added virtually nothing). 

Pts per 40: 13.8, 4th on team. (OK Kopp 10th, not counting Childress and Duncomb)

ORtg - 102,.8, 5th not counting Leal (minutes)

USG% - 19.6, 5th not counting Duncomb, and btw Kopp was 14.4 - good for 10th w/o Duncomb -- again, Kopp barely handled the ball, so sure his TO's are low. So JG's handle has to improve , but he's already 5th on team in usage, that says a Hell of a lot - more than Rob, Galloway, Bates, etc.

FG% - 51.8, 3d

OWS - .5, 5th 

eFG% - .559, 3d not counting Childress

3Pt - 31%, form is there, hit several big shots, I'd bank on that improving well, just like Vic's did, btw, OG's now a pro SF, with versatility plays both SF and PF, he's a 3-4, imo that's exactly what JG can be.

 

 

I think the point is that all the stats you cite would drop substantially if JG gets moved out of the post. 

Also, for all of JG's athleticism, he actually doesn't great lateral quickness or footwork which hurt him when guarding on the perimeter