IUBB vs Jackson State Game and Bardo Criticism Thread - 11/23/21

[Hoosierfan2017]

2 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

The drop from his freshman year has been crazy. Seemed like he had such a bright future and it just never happened. 

He was ranked #135 in his class so it isn’t toooo crazy that he hasn’t become a stud, but I agree. During his first couple months he looked like a kid who was going to be a lot better than his ranking. Unfortunately, those were the best two months he’s had at IU and he’s just gotten worse every year since then. 

[DChoosier]

8 hours ago, Bigred3588 said:

I expect him to struggle a bit as we go into conference but I’ll be surprised if he isn’t the first PG off the bench before the end of the season. I know some people favor Phinisee’s defense but the offense dies when he’s on the floor and we still don’t shoot well enough to dig ourselves out of a hole. I think Lander’s offense ultimately wins out. 

That’s also what I am expecting. He is obviously quick and can the court well and he is also doing a better job staying in front of his man on D (will be good to see how well he does that against better players). He will not star in a shooting video but his 3 point shot looks improved and no longer starts at his belt buckle.

I hoped the Woody influence would change Robs offensive approach but he still is pounding the ball too much and can’t shoot. Great kid but…..

[ElectricBoogaloo]

13 hours ago, coonhounds said:

Is this the defense archie had in mind when he came here? This is best defense i have seen at iu maybe since knight was here night in night out.

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No, because this defense actually guards the perimeter.

[Brass Cannon]

8 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

No, because this defense actually guards the perimeter.

It’s such an obvious thing it boggles my mind that Archie didn’t see it wasn’t working. 

[GloryDays]

12 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

TJD was good. Didn’t need him. Wasn’t in the game like normal.

 

Durr- no vertical, bad hands, blocked easily. Bad game. His minutes need to be limited in games that matter.

 

Kopp- needs to get back to fundamentals. Shooting the 3 drifting, floating, everything but set. Hunting shots. Not playing his best ball at IU. Strong shooter, just needs to focus on fundamentals.

 

Parker- love the stroke. Playing great.

 

Bates- love what he’s doing. More time.

 

XJ- strong game for the most part.

 

Leal/Lander both played well. Lander couldn’t get his layups to drop.

 

JG-needs to get out of his head. Shooting was bad and he’s really overthinking it.

 

Race- did his thing.

 

Jackson State slowed us down and dragged out the clock. Made for a boring game. Our 2nd unit doesn’t have any offensive flow. Big win against a bad team. Hope some our players don’t dwell on a few that played not so great.

 

 

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It looks to me as if Durr's hobbled on that one leg.Looking at past performances he was way more mobile.

 No saying he's super athletic but he's playing through an injury.

 

[Stromboli]

12 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

It’s such an obvious thing it boggles my mind that Archie didn’t see it wasn’t working. 

I think Archie enjoyed a ton of patience from fans in a lot of areas, and the pack line is one of them. I doubt we’d have been so patient if Virginia hadn’t just won. 
 

But yeah, in retrospect, the idea that you can not guard your man on the perimeter but just get to him super duper fast once he gets the ball is silly. And we got torched. It doesn’t help that the team started to hate playing basketball for him and effort went down. 

[RaceToTheTop]

10 minutes ago, Stromboli said:

I think Archie enjoyed a ton of patience from fans in a lot of areas, and the pack line is one of them. I doubt we’d have been so patient if Virginia hadn’t just won. 
 

But yeah, in retrospect, the idea that you can not guard your man on the perimeter but just get to him super duper fast once he gets the ball is silly. And we got torched. It doesn’t help that the team started to hate playing basketball for him and effort went down. 

IMO, the defensive switching has just been so much better this year.  There seemed to be so much rotation that involved our players trying to get back after a pick and roll where their only defense was to put their arms up to try to prevent the pass to the guy that just got open.

[Brass Cannon]

16 minutes ago, Stromboli said:

I think Archie enjoyed a ton of patience from fans in a lot of areas, and the pack line is one of them. I doubt we’d have been so patient if Virginia hadn’t just won. 
 

But yeah, in retrospect, the idea that you can not guard your man on the perimeter but just get to him super duper fast once he gets the ball is silly. And we got torched. It doesn’t help that the team started to hate playing basketball for him and effort went down. 

I think the 3 point line getting moved back also hurt him.  It meant giving the guys even more space in order to close off the lane.  It doesn’t mean it can’t be done but definitely narrowed the margin of error.  Which looks like Virginia is struggling to make the pack line work as well. 
 

It used to be a given Virginia would have a top D. Not anymore. The second they announced that rule change Archie should have tossed the pack line 

[Hoosierfan2017]

I always chuckled when I would hear that Archie’s defensive system would take years to learn. It’s not rocket science. If your system takes that long to learn then it’s a crappy system. Woody has them playing better defense 5 games in than they ever did under Archie. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

I think the 3 point line getting moved back also hurt him.  It meant giving the guys even more space in order to close off the lane.  It doesn’t mean it can’t be done but definitely narrowed the margin of error.  Which looks like Virginia is struggling to make the pack line work as well. 
 

It used to be a given Virginia would have a top D. Not anymore. The second they announced that rule change Archie should have tossed the pack line 

Packline works great when there is less space. Which it's great that the NCAA has moved the 3pt line out. Has allowed for much better spacing for offenses. 

[HoosierHoopster]

5 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

He held his own very well against St. John's when Phinisee went out. And that was against the more athletic guys. His defense has definitely improved from last season, which was a low bar, but improved still. He's going to end up being really good. He's showing the flashes we had hoped to see last season. 

I'm in this camp. Yes, Lander is going to struggle for a bit against B1G teams, maybe Cuse depending on PT, but he's already shown I think what can only fairly be described as exceptional improvement against St. J and last night. 

His O is much better. He is now seeing the floor at college game speed, and his reads are clear. He missed Geronimo on a post feed last night, but immediately followed that up with that excellent down-the-court pass on the next offensive play. That was excellent transition. His quickness is now complemented by his having developed a college body. 

On D, he's better but he's reaching. He picks up quick fouls because he's actually defending too aggressively, and gets caught reaching. That's cool with me, he's staying in front of his man for the most part, reaches will get corrected. 

He absolutely is showing the tools to be a good point guard and this year.

How many remember the way Yogi was repeatedly criticized early for running down into the D and leaving his feet and getting caught trying to figure out where to throw the rock? His frosh year that happened repeatedly. And of course he became one of our best pg's ever. Not saying Lander will be the next Yogi, but he absolutely has that quickness, he sees the floor really well, and he looks to push the ball inside, and quickly. Shot still needs work but it's also improved.

I hope we continue to see him get integrated in 12-14 minute runs, and that they grow into the 20s. It's our O that's lagging. He can bring it up.

[Hoosierfan2017]

44 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

I'm in this camp. Yes, Lander is going to struggle for a bit against B1G teams, maybe Cuse depending on PT, but he's already shown I think what can only fairly be described as exceptional improvement against St. J and last night. 

His O is much better. He is now seeing the floor at college game speed, and his reads are clear. He missed Geronimo on a post feed last night, but immediately followed that up with that excellent down-the-court pass on the next offensive play. That was excellent transition. His quickness is now complemented by his having developed a college body. 

On D, he's better but he's reaching. He picks up quick fouls because he's actually defending too aggressively, and gets caught reaching. That's cool with me, he's staying in front of his man for the most part, reaches will get corrected. 

He absolutely is showing the tools to be a good point guard and this year.

How many remember the way Yogi was repeatedly criticized early for running down into the D and leaving his feet and getting caught trying to figure out where to throw the rock? His frosh year that happened repeatedly. And of course he became one of our best pg's ever. Not saying Lander will be the next Yogi, but he absolutely has that quickness, he sees the floor really well, and he looks to push the ball inside, and quickly. Shot still needs work but it's also improved.

I hope we continue to see him get integrated in 12-14 minute runs, and that they grow into the 20s. It's our O that's lagging. He can bring it up.

I’ve thought his body looks more developed this year too. He’s still skinny but he’s not getting pushed around like last year. He’ll add on some more weight as his career progresses. I’m really excited about him. I think the sky is the limit for Khristian. The sample size is obviously small, but he’s a career 85.7% free throw shooter (12 of 14). 

Yogi’s first season he only averaged 7.6 and 4.1 assists in 28 minutes per game. Yogi also shot 30% from 3 his freshman season. He was on a loaded team so he wasn’t asked to do as much offensively as he was later on. You can teach a lot of things, but you can’t teach quickness or vision. Yogi had it, and I think Lander does too. He gets to go up against a great guard defender in Phinisee every day at practice, and he has a smart coach who will push him constantly. I think he’ll be an all conference guard before his college career is over in all honesty. 

[Golfman25]

3 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I always chuckled when I would hear that Archie’s defensive system would take years to learn. It’s not rocket science. If your system takes that long to learn then it’s a crappy system. Woody has them playing better defense 5 games in than they ever did under Archie. 

Just listening to woody you can see the man is a great coach. Tons of knowledge but humble enough to know he doesn’t know everything and needs to trust his coaches. I think it was last night he mentioned the zone defense and that it’s not something he’s used to so the other coaches will need to step up.  The stage is set for Syracuse next week to see how they really do.  It will be a big test for this team. 
 

I also love the fact that he has to run when the turnovers exceed 12.   Talk about pressure on these kids.   

[cthomas]

44 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Just listening to woody you can see the man is a great coach. Tons of knowledge but humble enough to know he doesn’t know everything and needs to trust his coaches. I think it was last night he mentioned the zone defense and that it’s not something he’s used to so the other coaches will need to step up.  The stage is set for Syracuse next week to see how they really do.  It will be a big test for this team. 
 

I also love the fact that he has to run when the turnovers exceed 12.   Talk about pressure on these kids.   

His demeanor is perfect for this team. He is firm and demanding but not manic or aloof like some coaches have been. I just think that he is the right guy at the right time to build a foundation for this program.

[lillurk]

4 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I always chuckled when I would hear that Archie’s defensive system would take years to learn. It’s not rocket science. If your system takes that long to learn then it’s a crappy system. Woody has them playing better defense 5 games in than they ever did under Archie. 

Yeah I can’t imagine ANY defensive system would take years for adults to learn? I know that was bandied about by archiphiles but I don’t think the man himself said it. Such an obvious tell

[Stuhoo]

Before y'all deify Woody too much, you might want to wait to see how you feel after we lose a few.  lol

[TheWatShot]

4 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I always chuckled when I would hear that Archie’s defensive system would take years to learn. It’s not rocket science. If your system takes that long to learn then it’s a crappy system. Woody has them playing better defense 5 games in than they ever did under Archie. 

Message boards can become echo chambers for a wide variety of topics, and I think this was one of them. Get a couple people saying something and a few others repeating it, and before long it's commonly accepted to be true. 

 

I had never heard of any system taking "years" to learn until then. No successful college coach would run anything that complicated because you're only getting these kids for 3-4 years, not 8-10 like the pros. 

[TheWatShot]

2 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Before y'all deify Woody too much, you might want to wait to see how you feel after we lose a few.  lol

I think we lose at Syracuse next week, and would be happy if we're above .500 in the Big Ten. That would still be a better season than anything the previous regime gave us. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

1 hour ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I’ve thought his body looks more developed this year too. He’s still skinny but he’s not getting pushed around like last year. He’ll add on some more weight as his career progresses. I’m really excited about him. I think the sky is the limit for Khristian. The sample size is obviously small, but he’s a career 85.7% free throw shooter (12 of 14). 

Yogi’s first season he only averaged 7.6 and 4.1 assists in 28 minutes per game. Yogi also shot 30% from 3 his freshman season. He was on a loaded team so he wasn’t asked to do as much offensively as he was later on. You can teach a lot of things, but you can’t teach quickness or vision. Yogi had it, and I think Lander does too. He gets to go up against a great guard defender in Phinisee every day at practice, and he has a smart coach who will push him constantly. I think he’ll be an all conference guard before his college career is over in all honesty. 

He actually moved a defender out of the way for his only layup in last night game, which I was surprised about. Actually used some strength. He just has things you can't teach. You can't teach his vision. You have it or you don't. And I haven't seen that kind of vision since Yogi or Hulls. And I'd put Hulls in the same category as Kevin Love in outlet passes and throwing ahead in transition. 

[Hoosierfan2017]

47 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Before y'all deify Woody too much, you might want to wait to see how you feel after we lose a few.  lol

That won’t happen because we aren’t going to lose any