Mike Woodson and His Coaching Staff

[CSP]

I see "Crean and Archie" grouped together a lot, and I certainly understand why..... but to be clear, Crean is about 10x the coach as Archie and I enjoyed our teams play under Crean 100000x more than I did under Archie. 

As some mentioned, Phinisee is just not a good player, the same should be said about Archie. He isn't a good coach and he certainly developed no one. 

[go iu bb]

8 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I see "Crean and Archie" grouped together a lot, and I certainly understand why..... but to be clear, Crean is about 10x the coach as Archie and I enjoyed our teams play under Crean 100000x more than I did under Archie. 

As some mentioned, Phinisee is just not a good player, the same should be said about Archie. He isn't a good coach and he certainly developed no one. 

Yep.

"Get old, stay old" only works if players improve with experience. That just didn't happen under Miller. The only player I can recall who made a big jump year over year was Franklin and from reading articles about that it sounds like it had nothing to do with Miller.

Crean did have many players improve significantly under him. Of course, one of his big problems was constantly looking for the diamond in the rough that he could turn into a star. He had some great successes with this but way more wasted scholarships. 

Between the two, I'd take Crean over Miller every day of the week. At least his teams weren't painfully boring to watch and they played with effort.

[CSP]

Just now, go iu bb said:

Yep.

"Get old, stay old" only works if players improve with experience. That just didn't happen under Miller. The only player I can recall who made a big jump year over year was Franklin and from reading articles about that it sounds like it had nothing to do with Miller.

Crean did have many players improve significantly under him. Of course, one of his big problems was constantly looking for the diamond in the rough that he could turn into a star. He had some great successes with this but way more wasted scholarships. 

Between the two, I'd take Crean over Miller every day of the week. At least his teams weren't painfully boring to watch and they played with effort.

I could at least understand what the goal was with Crean's teams. For Archie it was "pray the other team doesn't reach 60" as a consistent game plan. 

[8bucks]

5 hours ago, BGleas said:

Am I the only one that thinks the Phinisee injury thing gets overplayed? He certainly had more then his share of nagging injuries over his 4 years, no doubt about that. 

But, he also never blew out a knee, tore an Achilles or really had any major injury (except the concussion). He played in 111 games over 4 years. 

Phinisee had plenty of time to show he could be a lead guard at this level, and while I like Phinisee and don't mean this as a post to bash him or anything, the results were below average. 

His shooting numbers, both from the field and beyond the arc, were pretty awful over 111 games. 

I don’t really think Phinisee's injuries had much to do with Archie's lack of success, I think it was way more his inability to recruit a better starting point guard over him. 

When we had Romeo and on offense Archie would have him stand in the corner without the ball for 5 to 10 seconds most every “play” told me a lot.  I could understand if you have a true center, he may not get the ball some as he works the post.  He could have had him roam the baseline ala Will and that would have been something. No, Archie chose to have him stand to the side and called that offense. 
 

Rob not developing may have hurt, Archie’s recruiting weakness did hurt but to me this Romeo standing thing told me we had a major problem with our coach. 

[BGleas]

18 minutes ago, 8bucks said:

When we had Romeo and on offense Archie would have him stand in the corner without the ball for 5 to 10 seconds most every “play” told me a lot.  I could understand if you have a true center, he may not get the ball some as he works the post.  He could have had him roam the baseline ala Will and that would have been something. No, Archie chose to have him stand to the side and called that offense. 
 

Rob not developing may have hurt, Archie’s recruiting weakness did hurt but to me this Romeo standing thing told me we had a major problem with our coach. 

I have some thoughts on that as a Celtics fan. Before I get into it, I understand college and the NBA are completely different. I understand that it's different playing on a team when you're the leading scorer (IU) vs a team where you're a role player (Celtics).  I get all of that and probably could have listed more. 

But with that said, I watched Langford for three seasons in Boston constantly hoping he would break out. Constantly hoping he would improve his offensive game. 

What I saw for three seasons was Romeo Langford literally standing in the corner doing basically nothing offensively every time he went into the game. 

You could say that it's because it was his role in Boston, but during those same years guys like Semi Ojeleye and Javonte Green (an undrafted rookie in the same class) would come in and make things happen and get involved offensively. They'd find ways to be aggressive and get involved in the offense. All while Langford just stood in the corner and would actually run to the opposite corner if the ball came to his side. It was puzzling. 

I don't mean this as some big defense of Archie. Not really the intent. Just saying after watching Langford closely for 4 years (1 at IU and 3 in Boston) the standing in the corner seems to be a "him" thing as opposed to a coach thing. 

[Stuhoo]

34 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I have some thoughts on that as a Celtics fan. Before I get into it, I understand college and the NBA are completely different. I understand that it's different playing on a team when you're the leading scorer (IU) vs a team where you're a role player (Celtics).  I get all of that and probably could have listed more. 

But with that said, I watched Langford for three seasons in Boston constantly hoping he would break out. Constantly hoping he would improve his offensive game. 

What I saw for three seasons was Romeo Langford literally standing in the corner doing basically nothing offensively every time he went into the game. 

You could say that it's because it was his role in Boston, but during those same years guys like Semi Ojeleye and Javonte Green (an undrafted rookie in the same class) would come in and make things happen and get involved offensively. They'd find ways to be aggressive and get involved in the offense. All while Langford just stood in the corner and would actually run to the opposite corner if the ball came to his side. It was puzzling. 

I don't mean this as some big defense of Archie. Not really the intent. Just saying after watching Langford closely for 4 years (1 at IU and 3 in Boston) the standing in the corner seems to be a "him" thing as opposed to a coach thing. 

Romeo Langford is quite simply a very passive person by nature. It would’ve taken an excellent coaching job to turn him into a bad @$$. Archie didn’t accomplish that goal.

[BGleas]

21 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Romeo Langford is quite simply a very passive person by nature. It would’ve taken an excellent coaching job to turn him into a bad @$$. Archie didn’t accomplish that goal.

Yup, I think it's just his personality, which doesn't lend itself well to being a star pro player. 

Changing someone's mentality towards the game would be tough to do for any coach in just 1 season. Stevens and Udoka couldn't do it either. 

[CSP]

30 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Romeo Langford is quite simply a very passive person by nature. It would’ve taken an excellent coaching job to turn him into a bad @$$. Archie didn’t accomplish that goal.

 

7 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Yup, I think it's just his personality, which doesn't lend itself well to being a star pro player. 

Changing someone's mentality towards the game would be tough to do for any coach in just 1 season. Stevens and Udoka couldn't do it either. 

He never played a minute without the ball growing up... and when he did, he was just waiting on the ball to get passed back to him. 

Never learned to play without the ball. 100% a skill imo. 

Troy Williams learned how. I don't think his HS or college coach taught much movement at all. I know when I have coached against New Albany.. they literally just ball screen and stand, pressure you defensively because they have such superior athletes. (Rondale Moore went there too)  

And to be fair Stu... he avged 17p 6r as a FR with extremely limited help. 

But yeah, Romeo doesn't move a lick lol 

[Stuhoo]

32 minutes ago, btownqb said:

 

He never played a minute without the ball growing up... and when he did, he was just waiting on the ball to get passed back to him. 

Never learned to play without the ball. 100% a skill imo. 

Troy Williams learned how. I don't think his HS or college coach taught much movement at all. I know when I have coached against New Albany.. they literally just ball screen and stand, pressure you defensively because they have such superior athletes. (Rondale Moore went there too)  

And to be fair Stu... he avged 17p 6r as a FR with extremely limited help. 

But yeah, Romeo doesn't move a lick lol 

He won a couple of games for us with the ball in his hands and a high ball screen set.

[CSP]

6 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

He won a couple of games for us with the ball in his hands and a high ball screen set.

Haha he did, he did. I loved him, I'm bias, I admit it. 

[Southside]

17 hours ago, JSHoosier said:

I would've loved to hired Marshall, he can flat coach.  I wanted Holtmann more than Miller, but to be honest both were on a list I wanted to see more from.

I think Archie was about 4th or 5th on my list. But he seemed the most obvious from early on to me. I remember talking to my mom at that time (she still lives in IN) and she asked me who I thought it would be. I said Archie. She's always been a Brad Stevens fan, and I told her I didn't see that happening lol. I told her I wanted Marshall and she had no clue who that was. 

She liked Crean though. Not that she followed BB or anything. I liked Crean too. Didn't think he hung the moon or anything, but didn't think he was all that bad. I wanted an upgrade, which I didn't see Archie really as a no-brainer upgrade. It was time to move on though. Overall, just not sure the admin/BOT was ready to all in on Hoosier BB till last season, which was likely unfair to both Crean and Archie. 

[BGleas]

2 hours ago, btownqb said:

 

He never played a minute without the ball growing up... and when he did, he was just waiting on the ball to get passed back to him. 

Never learned to play without the ball. 100% a skill imo. 

Troy Williams learned how. I don't think his HS or college coach taught much movement at all. I know when I have coached against New Albany.. they literally just ball screen and stand, pressure you defensively because they have such superior athletes. (Rondale Moore went there too)  

And to be fair Stu... he avged 17p 6r as a FR with extremely limited help. 

But yeah, Romeo doesn't move a lick lol 

Excellent point! Knowing how to play off the ball and move off the ball is a absolutely a skill. 

[Hovadipo]

Just phenomenal content here from the social team.
 

Watching this video also made me realize that his old man quick flick follow through (?) we saw last season in pregame isn’t new. 

[Demo]

Impossible not to love the guy.

[Stuhoo]

53 minutes ago, Demo said:

 

A few thoughts:

1) This is clearly a man that will be able to “recruit by character reference.” All he has to do is win this year. Montverde players will hear about him from Montverde alumni.

2) Open the tweet an look at the comments from Knicks fans, who are a notoriously cranky bunch. If that doesn’t tell you? I don’t what would.

3) Even Archie Miller’s mama doesn’t treat him that well.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

A few thoughts:

1) This is clearly a man that will be able to “recruit by character reference.” All he has to do is win this year. Montverde players will hear about him from Montverde alumni.

2) Open the tweet an look at the comments from Knicks fans, who are a notoriously cranky bunch. If that doesn’t tell you I don’t what would.

3) Even Archie Miller’s mama doesn’t treat him that well.

I hope. It’s always a feel good. Current team loves him too.

 

I guess Kentucky superstar made/paid players aren’t evil afterall? Lol. Had too. Every damn one of them. Strike that, I think I spotted Duke paid player too.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using BtownBanners mobile app

[DWB]

43 minutes ago, Demo said:

 

A picture is worth a thousand words. This clip is worth the whole English language !!

[rayl456]

17 minutes ago, DWB said:

A picture is worth a thousand words. This clip is worth the whole English language !!

Love to see that video sent to those dumbass Rupps Rafters assholes.

[HoosierHoopster]

3 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

 

3) Even Archie Miller’s mama doesn’t treat him that well.

Can you blame her?

[Banksyrules]

3 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

A few thoughts:

1) This is clearly a man that will be able to “recruit by character reference.” All he has to do is win this year. Montverde players will hear about him from Montverde alumni.

2) Open the tweet an look at the comments from Knicks fans, who are a notoriously cranky bunch. If that doesn’t tell you? I don’t what would.

3) Even Archie Miller’s mama doesn’t treat him that well.

Heeey! I’m not cranky, just misunderstood.