General Coach Candidate News

[Trish]

Just now, rcs29 said:

I'd like to see an option type of contract. 5 year deal and after 2 years a decision is made to extend to 7 with a signing bonus or stay with 5. That would give admin the ability to see if the trajectory is worth investing in or not and it would tell the coach what they are thinking as well. I know this is completely one sided and will never happen but that'd be great for the one side lol. 7 straight up is too much imo. 5 is probably about right but I doubt a coach would sign for 5 so I guess the answer is 6???

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Coaches need to be more like Frank Vogel, the current head coach of the Los Angeles Lakers. 

He signed a 3yr contract. 

:D

 

[Golfman25]

5 hours ago, Treesh said:

I believe his wife makes a good amount of money as well as a Lawyer, I could be wrong on that though. 

For the Celtics, Brad's job is completely safe. Danny Ainge, the Boston Celtics GM, came out last week saying it's 100% his own fault for building a bad roster. Does Stevens want to settle for a second round exit for the next five years? Or does he want to come on home to Bloomington and eat free Buffalouis' for life. College recruiting sucks sure but Michigan is doing okay with their assistants doing the recruiting. 

Come home, Brad! 

 

Buffalouis for life.  That's something I can get behind.  :) 

[Hoosierfan2017]

1 hour ago, GnarlyTimGarl said:

RE: Thad Matta

I'll admit when I first heard his name I wasn't enthused. But then I looked at his resume...

Season	Team	Overall	Conference	Standing	Postseason
Butler Bulldogs (Midwestern Collegiate Conference) (2000–2001)
2000–01	Butler	24–8	11–3	1st	NCAA Division I Round of 32
Butler:		24–8 (.750)	11–3 (.786)
Xavier Musketeers (Atlantic 10 Conference) (2001–2004)
2001–02	Xavier	26–6	14–2	1st	NCAA Division I Round of 32
2002–03	Xavier	26–6	15–1	1st	NCAA Division I Round of 32
2003–04	Xavier	26–11	10–6	T–4th	NCAA Division I Elite Eight
Xavier:		78–23 (.772)	39–9 (.813)
Ohio State Buckeyes (Big Ten Conference) (2004–2017)
2004–05	Ohio State	20–12	8–8	6th	Ineligible
2005–06	Ohio State	26–6	12–4	1st	NCAA Division I Round of 32
2006–07	Ohio State	35–4	15–1	1st	NCAA Division I Runner-up
2007–08	Ohio State	24–13	10–8	5th	NIT Champion
2008–09	Ohio State	22–11	10–8	T–4th	NCAA Division I Round of 64
2009–10	Ohio State	29–8	14–4	T–1st	NCAA Division I Sweet 16
2010–11	Ohio State	34–3	16–2	1st	NCAA Division I Sweet 16
2011–12	Ohio State	31–8	13–5	T–1st	NCAA Division I Final Four
2012–13	Ohio State	29–8	13–5	T–2nd	NCAA Division I Elite Eight
2013–14	Ohio State	25–10	10–8	5th	NCAA Division I Round of 64
2014–15	Ohio State	24–11	11–7	6th	NCAA Division I Round of 32
2015–16	Ohio State	21–14	11–7	7th	NIT Second Round
2016–17	Ohio State	17–15	7–11	T–10th
Ohio State:		337–123 (.733)	150–78 (.658)
Total:		439–154 (.740)

A few notes...

- Ohio State's all-time leader in wins

- Made the NCAA Tournament 13/16 eligible seasons.

- 2 Final Fours, 2 Elite 8's, 3 Sweet 16's.

- 8 conference championships, 7 conference tournament championships

- In 17 years as coach, he had a losing conference record just ONE time... his last year.

That looks like the pillar of sustained success and competitiveness in the Big Ten. He would instantly become one of the top coaches in the Big Ten with his resume. Players would be more apt to listen to him because he's actually been to the top of mountain... he'd know what he was talking about. I would have loved to have his results in the last 20 years. It's true he's been out of coaching for four years... but I sincerely doubt he has lost all of his connections. He's got strong connections in the Midwest and would be able to hire a strong staff. He has always been a great recruiter and raked in plenty of talent form the Midwest over the years. He's put a number of players in the NBA over the years. He's got a background in Indiana coaching at Butler. He'd be a great fit here.

If he's healthy and wants to come... I think he's worth a shot. No buyout for him, right? That's a bonus. I think we'd be guaranteed some success with him. I think our administration keeps hoping to hire the next young Bob Knight... but I think hiring a proven guy like Matta would be more beneficial to this program right now. If you think Kelvin Sampson was a good coach... compare his resume to Matta's and you'll be pleased with what you see.

I think he'd be an incredible hire and much better than what I'm expecting us to end up with. You can justify firing Archie after this season and paying his buyout if you can get a coach with his resume. He's not coaching right now, do you really want to wait another year and give other teams a chance to ****** him up? It's not without risks. He could flop because of his health. But I want IU to swing for the fences. It's go big or go home time. And I think hiring Matta would be us going big. He's  an excellent coach with an excellent track record in our very conference. 

Edit: huh, apparently the word filter censors snat.ch. Lol

[Trish]

If Thad Matta is our BEST candidate right now and this off-season then we NEED to keep Archie for another year.

Thad will be there on the list next year , he's not going to Witicha State. Let's see if any other potential names pop up. We'd save money on the buy-out and we'd stay flexible for another year in case a HUGE name were to pop-up on the radar. 

 

 

 

 

[MikeRoberts]

2 minutes ago, Treesh said:

If Thad Matta is our BEST candidate right now and this off-season then we NEED to keep Archie for another year.

Thad will be there on the list next year , he's not going to Witicha State. Let's see if any other potential names pop up. We'd save money on the buy-out and we'd stay flexible for another year in case a HUGE name were to pop-up on the radar. 

 

 

 

 

Why? He was one of the beat coaches and most successful coaches in the bigten while he was there and not only made noise in the regular season but also in the tourney 

[TheWatShot]

4 minutes ago, Treesh said:

If Thad Matta is our BEST candidate right now and this off-season then we NEED to keep Archie for another year.

Thad will be there on the list next year , he's not going to Witicha State. Let's see if any other potential names pop up. We'd save money on the buy-out and we'd stay flexible for another year in case a HUGE name were to pop-up on the radar. 

 

 

 

 

NO. We need to just cut bait and move on. You don't keep a failing coach around just to see if better ones become available. When your coach has failed and is only going to continue to fail, fire him and hire the best you can get. People need to realize our next coach may not be a grand slam, but that doesn't mean it won't work out for us. 

[Hoosierfan2017]

1 minute ago, Treesh said:

If Thad Matta is our BEST candidate right now and this off-season then we NEED to keep Archie for another year.

Thad will be there on the list next year , he's not going to Witicha State. Let's see if any other potential names pop up. We'd save money on the buy-out and we'd stay flexible for another year in case a HUGE name were to pop-up on the radar. 

 

 

 

 

I honestly disagree completely. If Thad Matta wants to come here after this season, we should fire Archie without hesitation. 

I didn't ever really realize how well he did at OSU. There was a four year period in the middle of his tenure where he went 29-8 (sweet 16), 34-3 (sweet 16), 31-8 (final four) and 29-8 (elite eight). He won the conference three out of those four years, finished second the other time, and won the Big 10 tournament three times. That's a better 4 year stretch than IU's last 25 years combined. 

The only question mark is his health. If his body holds up, it's a homerun hire. Take your scenario from earlier where TJD returns and our young players take steps forward. That's a team that could make some noise with a healthy Thad Matta coaching them. 

[Chris007]

10 minutes ago, TheWatShot said:

NO. We need to just cut bait and move on. You don't keep a failing coach around just to see if better ones become available. When your coach has failed and is only going to continue to fail, fire him and hire the best you can get. People need to realize our next coach may not be a grand slam, but that doesn't mean it won't work out for us. 

You don't pay 10 million in a pandemic to get rid of someone, just to hope to find someone else. Save the money and pay more for a grand slam next year

[Chris007]

9 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I honestly disagree completely. If Thad Matta wants to come here after this season, we should fire Archie without hesitation. 

I didn't ever really realize how well he did at OSU. There was a four year period in the middle of his tenure where he went 29-8 (sweet 16), 34-3 (sweet 16), 31-8 (final four) and 29-8 (elite eight). He won the conference three out of those four years, finished second the other time, and won the Big 10 tournament three times. That's a better 4 year stretch than IU's last 25 years combined. 

The only question mark is his health. If his body holds up, it's a homerun hire. Take your scenario from earlier where TJD returns and our young players take steps forward. That's a team that could make some noise with a healthy Thad Matta coaching them. 

Greg Oden and Mike Conley are not walking through that door

[323SGrant]

RE: Thad Matta
I'll admit when I first heard his name I wasn't enthused. But then I looked at his resume...

Season	Team	Overall	Conference	Standing	Postseason
Butler Bulldogs (Midwestern Collegiate Conference) (2000–2001)
2000–01	Butler	24–8	11–3	1st	NCAA Division I Round of 32
Butler:		24–8 (.750)	11–3 (.786)
Xavier Musketeers (Atlantic 10 Conference) (2001–2004)
2001–02	Xavier	26–6	14–2	1st	NCAA Division I Round of 32
2002–03	Xavier	26–6	15–1	1st	NCAA Division I Round of 32
2003–04	Xavier	26–11	10–6	T–4th	NCAA Division I Elite Eight
Xavier:		78–23 (.772)	39–9 (.813)
Ohio State Buckeyes (Big Ten Conference) (2004–2017)
2004–05	Ohio State	20–12	8–8	6th	Ineligible
2005–06	Ohio State	26–6	12–4	1st	NCAA Division I Round of 32
2006–07	Ohio State	35–4	15–1	1st	NCAA Division I Runner-up
2007–08	Ohio State	24–13	10–8	5th	NIT Champion
2008–09	Ohio State	22–11	10–8	T–4th	NCAA Division I Round of 64
2009–10	Ohio State	29–8	14–4	T–1st	NCAA Division I Sweet 16
2010–11	Ohio State	34–3	16–2	1st	NCAA Division I Sweet 16
2011–12	Ohio State	31–8	13–5	T–1st	NCAA Division I Final Four
2012–13	Ohio State	29–8	13–5	T–2nd	NCAA Division I Elite Eight
2013–14	Ohio State	25–10	10–8	5th	NCAA Division I Round of 64
2014–15	Ohio State	24–11	11–7	6th	NCAA Division I Round of 32
2015–16	Ohio State	21–14	11–7	7th	NIT Second Round
2016–17	Ohio State	17–15	7–11	T–10th
Ohio State:		337–123 (.733)	150–78 (.658)
Total:		439–154 (.740)

A few notes...
- Ohio State's all-time leader in wins
- Made the NCAA Tournament 13/16 eligible seasons.
- 2 Final Fours, 2 Elite 8's, 3 Sweet 16's.
- 8 conference championships, 7 conference tournament championships
- In 17 years as coach, he had a losing conference record just ONE time... his last year.
That looks like the pillar of sustained success and competitiveness in the Big Ten. He would instantly become one of the top coaches in the Big Ten with his resume. Players would be more apt to listen to him because he's actually been to the top of mountain... he'd know what he was talking about. I would have loved to have his results in the last 20 years. It's true he's been out of coaching for four years... but I sincerely doubt he has lost all of his connections. He's got strong connections in the Midwest and would be able to hire a strong staff. He has always been a great recruiter and raked in plenty of talent form the Midwest over the years. He's put a number of players in the NBA over the years. He's got a background in Indiana coaching at Butler. He'd be a great fit here.
If he's healthy and wants to come... I think he's worth a shot. No buyout for him, right? That's a bonus. I think we'd be guaranteed some success with him. I think our administration keeps hoping to hire the next young Bob Knight... but I think hiring a proven guy like Matta would be more beneficial to this program right now. If you think Kelvin Sampson was a good coach... compare his resume to Matta's and you'll be pleased with what you see.

I would take Matta right now if he’s healthy!


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[rcbowla]

Greg Oden and Mike Conley are not walking through that door

Those 2 guys weren't during that time he was referring to I do not believe. That was the Sullinger era I would imagine. Didn't look up but guessing because Oden and Conley went to championship and lost to Florida if memory serves me correctly.

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[Hillsdale87]

17 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

 I look at it like we missed a few recruiting battles, injuries have been bad, weren't allowed to get rid of Crean guys, and underperformed offensively. I think the young nucleus of this team will be good in a few years whoever is the coach. Everyone looks at it differently. 

This is how I look at it. Archie has not performed to the level that we should expect, and losing out on Kaufmann this year is concerning for sure. However, there are a number of tipping points that worked against Archie that could have turned things in a completely different direction.

1. Imagine if Archie had been allowed to sign McKinley Wright in his first year. Replace Rob with McKinley Wright, and this is likely a top 20 team. If I remember correctly, Archie wanted him, but there wasn't anything he could do because of APR.

2. I wrote more about this in the MSU game thread, but the 2018 recruiting class completely set Archie back, especially Phinisee. Hunter's injury was nothing that he could prepare for, and has unfortunately limited a guy who appeared to have a ton of upside. But point guard is probably the most important position in basketball. Rob was expected to be a good PG, and it looked like he could become that after his freshman season. As a result, that didn't look like a need in 2019, and so he didn't fill a spot. As a coach, you don't prepare for a guy regressing, but that has unfortunately happened. Lander looks like he's going to be very good once he adds some weight, but that won't be until next year. Rob teasing everybody in 2018 and then regressing in 2019 and 2020 set the program back for two years. Bad classes happen (i.e. Duke, UK this year), but it's very destructive when essentially your first 2 classes (the one he inherited from Crean and 2018) add absolutely nothing. 8 players, almost no results.

3. Injuries this year to Brunk and Franklin have been very costly. We don't have a lot of depth on the front line, and so losing our biggest guy is not great. Franklin is our second best player, and has played limited for half the season. We probably have at least a couple more wins with those guys (definitely the Wisconsin game when Franklin didn't play).

That said, even with these mitigating circumstances, Archie is certainly not blameless. Giving up 52 to MSU on Saturday is inexcusable. Some of the spurts where it looks like the team is unfocused and lacking effort are terrible. There have been spots this year where the coaching has been lacking, but I'm not as down on Archie as most people on this board. I'd be fine with him being fired if there's a slam dunk candidate that would essentially guarantee success, but I'm not so convinced that Archie can't make it work that I would take a risk on a relative unknown. I was actually much more out on Archie in year 2, when I felt like his offense was so horrific that there was no way the defense could ever be good enough to compensate. I think he's made strides in the offensive gameplanning and has the young pieces to make it work. I don't think he's ever going to be a great offensive coach, but I think it's good enough.

I think this team has a good young nucleus. I saw somebody say that IU is the second youngest team in the B10, so there is reason to think that next year will be better. The 2018 class may have been a disaster, but the 2019 and 2020 ones seem very promising. Next year's class is small, but Parker Stewart and Duncomb seem like guys who will be good contributors. I wouldn't say that I expect next year's team to be really good, but I guess I generally trend toward optimism, so I'm more hopeful than most.

[Hoosierfan2017]

3 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Greg Oden and Mike Conley are not walking through that door

They’re not, but we do have another highly touted left-handed 5 star 6’1 point guard on the team..

I’ve seen a lot of names thrown out in this thread, and honestly I’ve been underwhelmed by most of them. And of the ones I wasn’t underwhelmed by, they’ve been very unrealistic. Stevens isn’t coming. Beard isn’t coming. Alford is sleazy and a mediocre coach. . Matta, though, is a proven winner who actually seems somewhat realistic.  He recruited Indiana and the Midwest well at OSU, and he’d come in with instant credibility.

[Chris007]

1 minute ago, rcs29 said:

Those 2 guys weren't during that time he was referring to I do not believe. That was the Sullinger era I would imagine. Didn't look up but guessing because Oden and Conley went to championship and lost to Florida if memory serves me correctly.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk
 

I thought that too after I said that, since Conley has been in the league for like 10-12 years. Mike Davis was trying to recruit them so that was long ago. 

[CS2]

1 hour ago, Chris007 said:

So if we decide to move on from Archie, how long of a contract do you give the next guy? If your only giving Archie 4 years, does the next guy get a 3 or 4-year deal? Also, this will be our 5th fired coach in the last 22 years. Not good by the adminstration

IMO and SIAP but I would like to see it structured similarly to Tom Allen's   Tom got a seven-year deal where he does not lose a year if they get to a bowl game.  Perpetuates itself.  

[Chris007]

3 minutes ago, Free Jurkin! said:

This is how I look at it. Archie has not performed to the level that we should expect, and losing out on Kaufmann this year is concerning for sure. However, there are a number of tipping points that worked against Archie that could have turned things in a completely different direction.

1. Imagine if Archie had been allowed to sign McKinley Wright in his first year. Replace Rob with McKinley Wright, and this is likely a top 20 team. If I remember correctly, Archie wanted him, but there wasn't anything he could do because of APR.

2. I wrote more about this in the MSU game thread, but the 2018 recruiting class completely set Archie back, especially Phinisee. Hunter's injury was nothing that he could prepare for, and has unfortunately limited a guy who appeared to have a ton of upside. But point guard is probably the most important position in basketball. Rob was expected to be a good PG, and it looked like he could become that after his freshman season. As a result, that didn't look like a need in 2019, and so he didn't fill a spot. As a coach, you don't prepare for a guy regressing, but that has unfortunately happened. Lander looks like he's going to be very good once he adds some weight, but that won't be until next year. Rob teasing everybody in 2018 and then regressing in 2019 and 2020 set the program back for two years. Bad classes happen (i.e. Duke, UK this year), but it's very destructive when essentially your first 2 classes (the one he inherited from Crean and 2018) add absolutely nothing. 8 players, almost no results.

3. Injuries this year to Brunk and Franklin have been very costly. We don't have a lot of depth on the front line, and so losing our biggest guy is not great. Franklin is our second best player, and has played limited for half the season. We probably have at least a couple more wins with those guys (definitely the Wisconsin game when Franklin didn't play).

That said, even with these mitigating circumstances, Archie is certainly not blameless. Giving up 52 to MSU on Saturday is inexcusable. Some of the spurts where it looks like the team is unfocused and lacking effort are terrible. There have been spots this year where the coaching has been lacking, but I'm not as down on Archie as most people on this board. I'd be fine with him being fired if there's a slam dunk candidate that would essentially guarantee success, but I'm not so convinced that Archie can't make it work that I would take a risk on a relative unknown. I was actually much more out on Archie in year 2, when I felt like his offense was so horrific that there was no way the defense could ever be good enough to compensate. I think he's made strides in the offensive gameplanning and has the young pieces to make it work. I don't think he's ever going to be a great offensive coach, but I think it's good enough.

I think this team has a good young nucleus. I saw somebody say that IU is the second youngest team in the B10, so there is reason to think that next year will be better. The 2018 class may have been a disaster, but the 2019 and 2020 ones seem very promising. Next year's class is small, but Parker Stewart and Duncomb seem like guys who will be good contributors. I wouldn't say that I expect next year's team to be really good, but I guess I generally trend toward optimism, so I'm more hopeful than most.

Very good post here. Can't argue any of that. 

[TheWatShot]

14 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

You don't pay 10 million in a pandemic to get rid of someone, just to hope to find someone else. Save the money and pay more for a grand slam next year

What if there's no grand slam next year, either? Then we've wasted another year, driven more fans away and possibly given the "supportive" fans more reasons to keep him around. 

[CS2]

3 minutes ago, Free Jurkin! said:

This is how I look at it. Archie has not performed to the level that we should expect, and losing out on Kaufmann this year is concerning for sure. However, there are a number of tipping points that worked against Archie that could have turned things in a completely different direction.

1. Imagine if Archie had been allowed to sign McKinley Wright in his first year. Replace Rob with McKinley Wright, and this is likely a top 20 team. If I remember correctly, Archie wanted him, but there wasn't anything he could do because of APR.

2. I wrote more about this in the MSU game thread, but the 2018 recruiting class completely set Archie back, especially Phinisee. Hunter's injury was nothing that he could prepare for, and has unfortunately limited a guy who appeared to have a ton of upside. But point guard is probably the most important position in basketball. Rob was expected to be a good PG, and it looked like he could become that after his freshman season. As a result, that didn't look like a need in 2019, and so he didn't fill a spot. As a coach, you don't prepare for a guy regressing, but that has unfortunately happened. Lander looks like he's going to be very good once he adds some weight, but that won't be until next year. Rob teasing everybody in 2018 and then regressing in 2019 and 2020 set the program back for two years. Bad classes happen (i.e. Duke, UK this year), but it's very destructive when essentially your first 2 classes (the one he inherited from Crean and 2018) add absolutely nothing. 8 players, almost no results.

3. Injuries this year to Brunk and Franklin have been very costly. We don't have a lot of depth on the front line, and so losing our biggest guy is not great. Franklin is our second best player, and has played limited for half the season. We probably have at least a couple more wins with those guys (definitely the Wisconsin game when Franklin didn't play).

That said, even with these mitigating circumstances, Archie is certainly not blameless. Giving up 52 to MSU on Saturday is inexcusable. Some of the spurts where it looks like the team is unfocused and lacking effort are terrible. There have been spots this year where the coaching has been lacking, but I'm not as down on Archie as most people on this board. I'd be fine with him being fired if there's a slam dunk candidate that would essentially guarantee success, but I'm not so convinced that Archie can't make it work that I would take a risk on a relative unknown. I was actually much more out on Archie in year 2, when I felt like his offense was so horrific that there was no way the defense could ever be good enough to compensate. I think he's made strides in the offensive gameplanning and has the young pieces to make it work. I don't think he's ever going to be a great offensive coach, but I think it's good enough.

I think this team has a good young nucleus. I saw somebody say that IU is the second youngest team in the B10, so there is reason to think that next year will be better. The 2018 class may have been a disaster, but the 2019 and 2020 ones seem very promising. Next year's class is small, but Parker Stewart and Duncomb seem like guys who will be good contributors. I wouldn't say that I expect next year's team to be really good, but I guess I generally trend toward optimism, so I'm more hopeful than most.

How are they better next year without TJD?  

[CS2]

12 minutes ago, 323SGrant said:

I would take Matta right now if he’s healthy!


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H isn't health enough for the rugged recruiting road.

[Chris007]

1 minute ago, TheWatShot said:

What if there's no grand slam next year, either? Then we've wasted another year, driven more fans away and possibly given the "supportive" fans more reasons to keep him around. 

We can get the best coach possible next year. We save 5 million dollars. I've been on this board for 5 years now, I always see people saying I'm not watching anymore, but the same people are complaining after the next game. Our fans aren't going anywhere. I always crack up at the people that are saying just buy him out, it's no big deal. This isn't fantasy football, 10 million is still 10 million whether it's spread out or not.