Negativity Thread

[MikeRoberts]

You can be boring when you have the legacy and clout of K.

Fair I suppose but he has always been boring and he built Duke from almost scratch.

Point being, he was landing good recruiting classes and building up a program while being boring


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[MikeRoberts]

And therein lies the problem. It's pretty hard to out-charisma a duffle bag full of cash. Archie has some problems as a coach, but a lot of problems are covered up when you have 5 stars out the wazoo. Look at how Calipari does when his teams aren't completely stacked. UNC is 8-6 this year because they're dealing with some injuries. Is Roy Williams a bad coach now? You could give one of the "top" coaches in college bball this roster and I doubt they'd be doing much better than Archie. 
Now, I imagine the response to that will be along the lines of "well he recruited this roster." And, that's true. He did. But, you also have to consider the fact that he's handcuffed by the university. The other coaches who "immediately turned their programs around" did it because their schools play the game. LSU plays the game. Memphis plays the game. Louisville plays the game. OSU plays the game. Will Wade isn't landing 5 stars because he's an ungodly coach. He's doing it because he gives them dufflebags full of cash. 
I know a segment on here is opposed to playing in the gray areas, and that's fine. I can respect wanting to do things the "right" way. But, if that's how you want things done then you have to accept that it's going to be a continuous grind with as much bad as good. You can't tie Archie's legs together before a race and then get pissed when he doesn't beat everyone. 

Do you believe that Archie doesn’t? Do you really believe that there wasn’t funny business going on in the Langford recruitment?


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[cthomas]

10 hours ago, TheWatShot said:

I strongly suspect Archie Miller is lacking in this area. He's very...plain. He's not telegenic or charismatic in any way. He doesn't project confidence or a strong sense of direction. He's just...here. And it's like he has no idea why. 

You probably just described a search criteria for a university looking for a coach whose personality wouldn't overshadow the university as a whole. Until BOT and administration priorities change, I don't see a "big" personality coach on the sidelines of Assembly Hall.

[Hoosierfan2017]

25 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

Do you believe that Archie doesn’t? Do you really believe that there wasn’t funny business going on in the Langford recruitment?


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If there was I don't think Archie was involved in it. Chris007 alluded to that being why we were never heavily involved in the Watford recruitment. 

[Maedhros]

 

50 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

And therein lies the problem. It's pretty hard to out-charisma a duffle bag full of cash. Archie has some problems as a coach, but a lot of problems are covered up when you have 5 stars out the wazoo. Look at how Calipari does when his teams aren't completely stacked. UNC is 8-6 this year because they're dealing with some injuries. Is Roy Williams a bad coach now? You could give one of the "top" coaches in college bball this roster and I doubt they'd be doing much better than Archie. 

Now, I imagine the response to that will be along the lines of "well he recruited this roster." And, that's true. He did. But, you also have to consider the fact that he's handcuffed by the university. The other coaches who "immediately turned their programs around" did it because their schools play the game. LSU plays the game. Memphis plays the game. Louisville plays the game. OSU plays the game. Will Wade isn't landing 5 stars because he's an ungodly coach. He's doing it because he gives them dufflebags full of cash. 

I know a segment on here is opposed to playing in the gray areas, and that's fine. I can respect wanting to do things the "right" way. But, if that's how you want things done then you have to accept that it's going to be a continuous grind with as much bad as good. You can't tie Archie's legs together before a race and then get pissed when he doesn't beat everyone. 

Tom Crean dealt with the same Indiana administration for nine years. I don't believe he was allowed to operate in ways that are now forbidden to Archie. Nothing would surprise me in college recruiting anymore, but I don't believe Tom was out there offering impermissible benefits. If he were, Tremont Waters is almost certainly a member of the 2017 class. If anything, Archie is in a better spot with the benefit of the many facility upgrades completed by the Glass administration. Yet we're not seeing Tom Crean results from Archie, either on the court or on the recruiting trail.

Claims that the administration is what's holding Archie back ring false to me, when just making the tournament has become our goal three years in, and looks to be the stretch goal next season as well. We brought in five straight McDonald's All-Americans under Crean. We immediately started recruiting the state again under Archie. I need something specific before I believe it's the administration keeping any coach from accomplishing both.

[Whoozhers]

Lapsing back into junior high basketball skill is not appropriate at this level.
It’s truly embarrassing.


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[Hoosierfan2017]

13 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

 

Tom Crean dealt with the same Indiana administration for nine years. I don't believe he was allowed to operate in ways that are now forbidden to Archie. Nothing would surprise me in college recruiting anymore, but I don't believe Tom was out there offering impermissible benefits. If he were, Tremont Waters is almost certainly a member of the 2017 class. If anything, Archie is in a better spot with the benefit of the many facility upgrades completed by the Glass administration. Yet we're not seeing Tom Crean results from Archie, either on the court or on the recruiting trail.

Claims that the administration is what's holding Archie back ring false to me, when just making the tournament has become our goal three years in, and looks to be the stretch goal next season as well. We brought in five straight McDonald's All-Americans under Crean. We immediately started recruiting the state again under Archie. I need something specific before I believe it's the administration keeping any coach from accomplishing both.

Crean had Kenny Johnson, who was caught up in the Lousiville scandal, on his staff. So I'm not convinced he was completely clean. Some of the east coast recruitments, Thomas Bryant in particular, were a little sketchy. And if he was clean, that kind of goes to my point of taking the good with the bad if you don't play the game. He missed the tournament in 5 of 9 years and only had a winning conference record 3 times. It's hard to stay consistent doing things the clean way. 

And we only have better facilities now because of Archie. He fought for the facilities, if it wasn't for him we'd probably still have the old dumpy ones. 

[WayneFleekHoosier]

Crean was more than willing to play the game. I’m certain he did in a few instances. Either Adidas, Indiana slowed or resisted his attempts or others are better at the dirty business.

Archie hasn’t really had any recruitments that feel dirty to me, besides Romeo.

Yeah, Romeo for sure. But Adidas did their thing before Indiana really had anything to do with it. He was a true shoe guy.


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[JSHoosier]

The administration isn't preventing this team from improving as the season goes on.  It's not preventing this team from hitting the easiest shot in the game.  It's not preventing effort.  There are serious problems that have nothing to do with the administration.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

The administration isn't preventing this team from improving as the season goes on.  It's not preventing this team from hitting the easiest shot in the game.  It's not preventing effort.  There are serious problems that have nothing to do with the administration.

Yes yes yes. We have a horrible roster. When 4 starter positions shouldn’t be starters and no one on the bench can earn more time, that’s a major problem.

But since Archie isn’t a development or XO guy I’m back to rooting for the best recruits, that come in gifted.


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[Josh]

9 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

The administration isn't preventing this team from improving as the season goes on.  It's not preventing this team from hitting the easiest shot in the game.  It's not preventing effort.  There are serious problems that have nothing to do with the administration.

This. 

Archie is getting so many excuses why it isn't his fault and it baffles me.  Nobody forced Archie into this "offense".  Nobody forced him to be unable to motivate this team.  Nobody forced him into these rotations, gameplans, schemes, or roster.  Enough with the excuses.

[8bucks]

I at least expect IMPROVEMENT and NOT digressing.
Is that so wrong??
This team gets worse from week to week.
Not acceptable.


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I think they are getting worse mostly because we are playing talented teams now. Challenges expose weaknesses and during the cupcake schedule we traded wins for opportunities to learn about weaknesses


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[HoosierAloha]

The administration isn't preventing this team from improving as the season goes on.  It's not preventing this team from hitting the easiest shot in the game.  It's not preventing effort.  There are serious problems that have nothing to do with the administration.

Completely agree. It takes a TEAM to get it done. Archie is more responsible than anyone and will lose that gig if it continues.

I don’t understand how Archie is/was as fiery as he was and this team just falls apart. I always felt Crean teams reflected their clueless, caffeinated coach but why doesn’t them team show the grit of Archie?! It seems like when the going gets tough they’re trying to beat each other back to the lockers.


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[Golfman25]

I'm going to double down on the comments regarding the administration and the facilities.  It's all a bullchit smokescreen.  Freaking Butler plays in the oldest arena on the planet.  Cameron Indoor is a large "gym."  Maybe the new "lounge" is the problem -- if they aren't in class, studying, or taking a dump, they should be practicing their god awful free throws.  Not lounging.  Oh and I am sure it's some freaking cheerleader in a turtleneck which is a turnoff.  

As was said, the administration, facilities, etc. have nothing to do with: over helping on D leaving 3 point shooters wide open; no functional offensive system, inability to hit free throws, no shooters (which have actually regressed); no accountability for piss poor play; stupid substitutions, lack of adjustments, and on and on. 

Players like to win.  They like to play for winning programs.  The rest is all fluff.  

You're not going from not making the tournament to the final 4 in a year or two.  You need a plan.  It starts with making the tournament every year.  Once you do that, you can look to compete for Big Ten Championships.  Once you regularly compete in the Big 10, you're looking to go sweet 16, elite 8 -- and if things work out Final 4s.  To do it, you're not going to get a bunch of 5* recruits year 1 or 2.  You'll need to do it with lesser talented kids -- which means you better be able to coach your a$$ off.  

Archie (or any coach) needs to self evaluate and figure out what they are good at.  Then higher out your weaknesses.  After last year, he should have gotten a shooting coach.  He did not.  That's a BIG problem.  Maybe we should send him a copy of this:  https://www.championshipproductions.com/cgi-bin/champ/p/Basketball/Archie-Millers-Shooting-Program_BD-05173.html?crm=r-1

 

[Hoosierfan2017]

22 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Oh and I am sure it's some freaking cheerleader in a turtleneck which is a turnoff. 

 

I knew someone would completely miss the point. "Oh so you think we lose because the cheerleaders wear turtlenecks?!"

Yawn. The whole point of mentioning the cheerleaders was because it's yet another example of how boring, stuffy, and out of touch with the modern age IU is. But, of course, you were unable to comprehend that so I had to spell it out for you. 

[Whoozhers]

Archie is driving me to be the biggest fan of the IU Log Rolling team.
Bob that log!
Get that fall!
See.... I know some of the cheers already.


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[Brass Cannon]

Assembly call guys made a good point. Maybe it’s time that we bring in a coach to run the offense 

That is certainly the new AD could do 

[MikeRoberts]

Assembly call guys made a good point. Maybe it’s time that we bring in a coach to run the offense 

That is certainly the new AD could do 

Well, that would be a novel idea. I feel like we’re back to the Crean days saying “if he can’t coach defense then bring in an assistant that can”

 

Now we’re saying the same thing all over again, just about offense this time

 

 

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[Golfman25]

1 hour ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I knew someone would completely miss the point. "Oh so you think we lose because the cheerleaders wear turtlenecks?!"

Yawn. The whole point of mentioning the cheerleaders was because it's yet another example of how boring, stuffy, and out of touch with the modern age IU is. But, of course, you were unable to comprehend that so I had to spell it out for you. 

Whatever.  Cheerleaders, and all the "IU is boring " BS has nothing to do with winning basketball games. It's a sideshow.

[Golfman25]

9 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

Well, that would be a novel idea. I feel like we’re back to the Crean days saying “if he can’t coach defense then bring in an assistant that can”

 

Now we’re saying the same thing all over again, just about offense this time

 

 

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Back in the Bulls heyday that's exactly what they did.  Phil Jackson was good at managing players' egos and such.  Tex Winter had a triple PhD in the triangle offense.