Transfer Portal w IU Interest

[Home Jersey]

4 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Sure! But those posts certainly are not about how he could help as a basketball player; very much (to varying degrees) about how he would effect team culture.

Right. And half (or more) the pitch of Leal’s value is about what he brings off the court as a sixth year CBB player. People feel differently about that… and his fit on the roster in basketball terms… so the less than enthusiastic reception to the idea is unsurprising to me, especially after the past four years. 

[Hoosierfan2017]

 I simply want a team of guys I like and enjoy watching. Leal and Goode do not fall into those categories. Goode was only here for a hot minute and bought hook line and sinker into the Woodson persecution complex. My feelings about Leal are clear.  A breakup between the Woodson era and the new era is needed. If Leal wants a third senior year of college, hopefully it happens elsewhere. 

[CSP]

15 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

 I simply want a team of guys I like and enjoy watching. Leal and Goode do not fall into those categories. Goode was only here for a hot minute and bought hook line and sinker into the Woodson persecution complex. My feelings about Leal are clear.  A breakup between the Woodson era and the new era is needed. If Leal wants a third senior year of college, hopefully it happens elsewhere. 

It's just not that deep. 

[go iu bb]

1 hour ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

As a general point of information, but from what I've read, walk-ons are now ancient history.  You can have 15 scholarship players but any number of total players over 13 results in a financial penalty in terms of revenue sharing.

I've tried to find out what the revenue sharing penalty is for the additional scholarships. Rabby doesn't answer what exactly it means when he's asked. Best I can find is that the revenue sharing is reduced by the amount of the scholarship, so, in effect, revenue sharing is used to pay for the scholarship. I don't know if that is correct but it's what I could find. 

[rcbowla]

I have no animosity towards Leal. I just look at 2 scenarios and favor one of them. Scenario 1 is Leal taking roster spot for 1 year max while not likely playing at all. Scenario 2 is a developmental HS recruit that has flown under the radar and could possibly develop. In Scenario 2 you could have a player that develops over the course of 4 years max or if he doesn't you cut bait after 1 year (same amount of time Leal takes up a roster spot). Just doesn't make sense to bring Leal back for minimal to non-existent role when you could use that resource to try and find a diamond in the rough. Just my 2 cents.

[iu eyedoc]

48 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Sure! But those posts certainly are not about how he could help as a basketball player; very much (to varying degrees) about how he would effect team culture.

Do you not consider that a valid concern?

If he really was MW's boy, is there no concern  he could be a discontented voice in the locker room?

If he comes back with a lesser role and lesser NIL deal does that lead to a level of resentment?

 

I'm sure CDDV will or has vetted the situation, but Leal probably lands near the bottom of the depth chart so not sure how much he will help.

The phrase, "it only takes one bad apple to ruin the bunch" comes to mind.

I am indifferent to Leal's return but don't think questioning it is solely sour grapes about his Senior Night speech gaffe.

[Home Jersey]

7 minutes ago, rcbowla said:

I have no animosity towards Leal. I just look at 2 scenarios and favor one of them. Scenario 1 is Leal taking roster spot for 1 year max while not likely playing at all. Scenario 2 is a developmental HS recruit that has flown under the radar and could possibly develop. In Scenario 2 you could have a player that develops over the course of 4 years max or if he doesn't you cut bait after 1 year (same amount of time Leal takes up a roster spot). Just doesn't make sense to bring Leal back for minimal to non-existent role when you could use that resource to try and find a diamond in the rough. Just my 2 cents.

Bringing Leal back instead of your scenario 2 (which I’d also prefer) would be a “win now” move to me. Based on the roster construction I find that a little odd unless you think you need an insurance policy in the backcourt with all the mid-major guys signed up. I’d hope DDV doesn’t feel the need for that. Maybe he feels Sisley will be ready to contribute at the 4 next year and doesn’t feel a need for another big man this cycle. I’d still tend to want young blood in the program / on this roster next year than a 6th year guy.

[Hoosierfan2017]

43 minutes ago, Certified Sunshine Pumper said:

It's just not that deep. 

To each their own. Beyond all the “culture” talk, the roster spots can be better used elsewhere. 

[CSP]

3 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

To each their own. Beyond all the “culture” talk, the roster spots can be better used elsewhere. 

Maybe, there are also worse options.

[Stuhoo]

7 minutes ago, iu eyedoc said:

Do you not consider that a valid concern?

If he really was MW's boy, is there no concern  he could be a discontented voice in the locker room?

If he comes back with a lesser role and lesser NIL deal does that lead to a level of resentment?

 

I'm sure CDDV will or has vetted the situation, but Leal probably lands near the bottom of the depth chart so not sure how much he will help.

The phrase, "it only takes one bad apple to ruin the bunch" comes to mind.

I am indifferent to Leal's return but don't think questioning it is solely sour grapes about his Senior Night speech gaffe.

Sure—valid concern.

But not only am I not concerned, I think he’s a very smart, hardworking guy who was fully supporting his then coach, completely ‘gets’ that there was disfunction (hell, he experienced it first hand) and would be a great culture piece at the end of the bench for the new guys.

That is my opinion.

[Hoosierfan2017]

10 minutes ago, Certified Sunshine Pumper said:

Maybe, there are also worse options.

Are there? If DD, with the way the roster is currently constructed, brought in identical players to Leal and Goode from the portal, would people be happy about that? I don’t think they would be at all. They’re very redundant. We have better players at their positions and a need at the 5 defensively. We’d also ideally get players with multiple years of eligibility left so we’re not rebuilding the entire team next year too. Neither Leal nor Goode fill any needs. 

[CSP]

Just now, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Are there? If DD, with the way the roster is currently constructed, brought in identical players to Leal and Goode from the portal, would people be happy about that? I don’t think they would at all. They’re very redundant. We have better players at their positions and a need at the 5 defensively. 

Of course they're worse options. I do prefer a Hatton, but the defensive version over Goode, Leal, but yes, of course they're worse options. 

I have little doubt, if it's those two to fill out the roster, those two will be fine with their role. They're both, clearly, through and through Hoosiers. 

[go iu bb]

Rabby says the belief is that the chances Leal actually gets another year is small. He doesn't say why that's the belief but I'm guessing it's due to the number of games played since he played 11 games that year. Goode is borderline at 10 games which is just over 30% but still less than 31%. 11 games would be well above 30%. 

[JPCIVOP]

4 hours ago, Certified Sunshine Pumper said:

Ehhh haha 

I think his college 3pt % is actually a better showing than his actual abilities. 

Id for sure take him though. Some of these complaints are wild. 

Agree on taking Leal.

An out of context stat, but one which communicates something:
Leal had a Defensive Box Plus/Minus this year of 5.7. During Oladipo's All-American year in 2013, he had a DBPM of 5.6. It communicates something of the value that Leal brought this year to the defensive end of the floor. His defense on Braden Smith this year demonstrated that.

I've been suspicious of this roster's rim protection. But Leal is good enough on defense, that I think he contributes more than the kind of center we'd be likely to get at this point. Conerway, Wilkerson and Leal would be three bulldogs on the perimeter; seems they want the team to be built on shooting and perimeter defense, and Leal builds toward that goal.

[JPCIVOP]

3 hours ago, HoosierHoopster said:

I’d like to see us add a versatile 6’9 or so shotblocking forward. If we’re really trying to bring Leal back (I remain very doubtful), I would consider that a strange and unnecessary move. We don’t need a traditional big and that would not fit with the roster and system DeVries is putting together, but we could certainly use another forward to add to rebounding, shot blocking, depth

I think the thinking goes like this.

Guys capable of playing the 5:

Bailey, Alexis, Harris

 

Guys capable of playing the 4:

Bailey, Alexis, DeVries, Goode, Leal, Miles Harris

 

Hardly any shotblocking, but a lot of spacing and positional flexibility. As I say elsewhere, I think those factors and the strength of the perimeter defense are what they're going for. People interested in rim protection (I am one) are interested in defense. Leal, IMO, adds to the defensive picture in a way that I'm not sure anyone else gettable in the portal could.

 

I'm curious to see how this works out, and think it's worth some patience.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

25 minutes ago, go iu bb said:

Rabby says the belief is that the chances Leal actually gets another year is small. He doesn't say why that's the belief but I'm guessing it's due to the number of games played since he played 11 games that year. Goode is borderline at 10 games which is just over 30% but still less than 31%. 11 games would be well above 30%. 

Rabby is a bit out of touch on this one it seems.  

[RaceToTheTop]

Personally, I don't know what takes the NCAA so long to rule on these cases. It's not like there is any secret evidence that we don't know about.

[HoosierHoopster]

2 hours ago, Certified Sunshine Pumper said:

It's just not that deep. 

A zen statement, on life.

:)

[Home Jersey]

1 hour ago, JPCIVOP said:

Agree on taking Leal.

An out of context stat, but one which communicates something:
Leal had a Defensive Box Plus/Minus this year of 5.7. During Oladipo's All-American year in 2013, he had a DBPM of 5.6. It communicates something of the value that Leal brought this year to the defensive end of the floor. His defense on Braden Smith this year demonstrated that.

I've been suspicious of this roster's rim protection. But Leal is good enough on defense, that I think he contributes more than the kind of center we'd be likely to get at this point. Conerway, Wilkerson and Leal would be three bulldogs on the perimeter; seems they want the team to be built on shooting and perimeter defense, and Leal builds toward that goal.

I don’t want to be pedantic but I’ve been looking into advanced stats more with all our new roster additions. From what I gather, BPM and OBPM are reasonably useful metrics but DBPM is not. TLDR is DBPM gets calculated as BPM - OBPM. So box plus/minus gives a good indication offensively but not on defense. Forgive the bad formatting, I had to copy and paste for a better summary lol.

Certain stats like assists and blocks have coefficients based on positions/roles .... e.g. centers get higher coefficient for assists than point guards do, and point guards get higher coefficient for blocks than centers do.

Estimating defensive impact from box score is not reliable. The fact that assists count towards your DBPM is silly.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/bpm2.html

It's an interesting read if you have the time.

[HoosierHoopster]

43 minutes ago, JPCIVOP said:

I think the thinking goes like this.

Guys capable of playing the 5:

Bailey, Alexis, Harris

 

Guys capable of playing the 4:

Bailey, Alexis, DeVries, Goode, Leal, Miles Harris

 

Hardly any shotblocking, but a lot of spacing and positional flexibility. As I say elsewhere, I think those factors and the strength of the perimeter defense are what they're going for. People interested in rim protection (I am one) are interested in defense. Leal, IMO, adds to the defensive picture in a way that I'm not sure anyone else gettable in the portal could.

 

I'm curious to see how this works out, and think it's worth some patience.

I understand that thinking. Jmo, Leal wouldn’t play much if he were on this team, I do not see him meshing with this roster, and the gap I see is another long forward  who defends well