They “Retired” Coach Woodson Thread

[Shooter]

Thought experiment. If we keep Woodson, how good would next season need to be in order for him to get a fifth year?

In my opinion, we'd have to be at least as good as last season. And even then, there would still be grumbling if we make an early tourney exit. If he misses the tourney again he's definitely gone. Even if we sneak in as a 8-10 seed or something, I think he's still likely gone.

So the question - how likely is it that we are at least as good as last season? If you're the AD and you think that is unlikely, what's the point in waiting a year? Just move on now.

[AZ Hoosier]

35 minutes ago, steubenhoosier said:

Okay, Blind faith.

Don’t think anyone who had achieved a level of success that they could afford to contribute is the NIL initiative would have believed that CMW was going to “crap his pants.” 
I don’t know if Woodson is going to keep his job or not, but the level of vitriol in this thread towards anyone associated with our basketball program is pathetic. 

A fool and his money are soon parted. Woodson had no business being hired and would NOT have been hired apart from Buckner. Woodson was 63, had ZERO experience coaching college, recruiting anything and nowhere near the energy required for a 24/7/365 job.

[AZ Hoosier]

37 minutes ago, steubenhoosier said:

Okay, Blind faith.

Don’t think anyone who had achieved a level of success that they could afford to contribute is the NIL initiative would have believed that CMW was going to “crap his pants.” 
I don’t know if Woodson is going to keep his job or not, but the level of vitriol in this thread towards anyone associated with our basketball program is pathetic. 

Ok then, defend him. What has Mike Woodson done to have earned another year running the Indiana Men's basketball program? Serious question... You say the board is full of vitriol, but you haven't refuted any of the arguments against his return... so, tell us why you think he deserves to try again.

[IUFAN1976]

2 minutes ago, Shooter said:

Thought experiment. If we keep Woodson, how good would next season need to be in order for him to get a fifth year?

In my opinion, we'd have to be at least as good as last season. And even then, there would still be grumbling if we make an early tourney exit. If he misses the tourney again he's definitely gone. Even if we sneak in as a 8-10 seed or something, I think he's still likely gone.

So the question - how likely is it that we are at least as good as last season? If you're the AD and you think that is unlikely, what's the point in waiting a year? Just move on now.

He will be back next year but we won’t make the tournament and he will be gone.  He’s going to have to do a major overhaul and we all know he’s not good at meshing new players together and developing chemistry no matter how much talent he has

[lillurk]

@coonhounds and @Stuhoo are right, say what you will about the hires but IU AD has acted swiftly when the bottom falls out with a revenue sport head coach.

Also note Allen’s payment was two lump sums they’ve already paid out. Others have made this case in greater length and detail but I wouldn’t consider the buyout prohibitive. It can be negotiated down, amortized across a number of years, and — perhaps most importantly — avoiding it is more costly in terms of lost revenue next year. 

[moyemayhem]

15 minutes ago, Herotime said:

Can someone help me understand why Todd Leary is on with Jim Coyle pointing out all of the team’s OBVIOUS insufficiencies but following his criticism by saying “CMW isn’t going anywhere and I don’t  want a new coach bc there’s no home run hire out there and I don’t want to start over.”

He on the payroll? Help me understand.

If you want to understand how Todd Leary could speak out of both sides of his mouth, just do a quick google search on Todd Leary.

[theriverpilot]

14 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

I cannot speak for the donors... but look at the facts:

• Woodson was a pretty good player for IU
• Woodson made it to the NBA where he had a fair playing career
• Woodson coached in the NBA where he was pretty much mediocre, based on his record (9 years, .463 winning percentage_
• Woodson had been out of coaching for 5 years
• Woodson had not been a head coach for 10 years
• Woodson had zero college coaching experience as a head coach or an assistant
• Woodson had zero recruiting experience
• No other organized basketball team would have considered Woodson as a serious coaching candidate

Looks pretty much like a failure from the get-go to me.

The last bullet point here really hit hard. No other program would’ve had Woodson anywhere close on their radar to be the head basketball coach 

[OKHOOSIER]

3 minutes ago, theriverpilot said:

The last bullet point here really hit hard. No other program would’ve had Woodson anywhere close on their radar to be the head basketball coach 

In addition, our administration sanctioned a 1 million dollar raise and insane buyout for a coach no one was trying to buyout or pay more to coach their team. It is unconscionable. 

[Hornsby]

When Crean was in his final days, there was all this talk about a "soft landing," that he was actively working with the administration to get his next job lined up so he could smoothly transition without a ton of bad PR. I thought it was BS at the time and I was right; nobody ever does that. He got fired and proceeded to not coach for a year, but people actually believed it. 

If I recall reading crean was trying to convince the ad he was going to change recruiting and wanted another year. Crean did not want to go.

 

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[Hornsby]

Woodson does not want to leave. Face it he will never get another job so this is it for him. He wants to come back and prove us all wrong. All coaches do. None of them want to end their careers on a crap note. It's very hard to admit you failed.

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[Trish]

52 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

I cannot speak for the donors... but look at the facts:

• Woodson was 63 years old
• Woodson was a pretty good player for IU
• Woodson made it to the NBA where he had a fair playing career
• Woodson coached in the NBA where he was pretty much mediocre, based on his record (9 years, .463 winning percentage)
• Woodson had been out of coaching for 5 years
• Woodson had not been a head coach for 10 years
• Woodson had zero college coaching experience as a head coach or an assistant
• Woodson had zero recruiting experience
• No other organized basketball team would have considered Woodson as a serious coaching candidate

Looks pretty much like a failure from the get-go to me.

He couldn’t even hire a staff so he retained most of Archie’s guys along with firing the help Dolson brought on. 

[IndyHoops]

18 minutes ago, Trish said:

He couldn’t even hire a staff so he retained most of Archie’s guys along with firing the help Dolson brought on. 

I think this a huge thing people don’t realize. The current staff is mostly the last staff that failed plus a head coach with no college experience.

[Jwalk83]

The Woodster strikes again!

[hoopsta007]

23 minutes ago, Trish said:

He couldn’t even hire a staff so he retained most of Archie’s guys along with firing the help Dolson brought on. 

That is the most frustrating part.  Clearly there was at least some reservation or realism of the risk of hiring Woodson.  Then he promptly runs off the people put in place to mitigate that risk.

[Hornsby]

He couldn’t even hire a staff so he retained most of Archie’s guys along with firing the help Dolson brought on. 

Yep. The biggest issue dolson now has is even if you offer to buy him out will he actually leave or dare them to fire him? Woodson knows its a bad look for them if they fire him so I think he believes he holds all the cards now.

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[AZ Hoosier]

Yep. The biggest issue dolson now has is even if you offer to buy him out will he actually leave or dare them to fire him? Woodson knows its a bad look for them if they fire him so I think he believes he holds all the cards now.

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That’s the whole problem with Woodson. He’s arrogant to the point of it being beyond stupidity. He’s fighting to finish with a .500 record, yet he refuses (or is completely unable) to adjust his schemes or game plans to meet the situation. He’s so sure that he’s always right that he in unable/unwilling to accept help or advice. He managed to get rid of the “helps” that Dolson gave him when he was hired, and every bit of what he gets is on him alone. And he somehow doesn’t see what an epic failure his stint as head coach has been.

[Bowhunter]

2 hours ago, Herotime said:

Can someone help me understand why Todd Leary is on with Jim Coyle pointing out all of the team’s OBVIOUS insufficiencies but following his criticism by saying “CMW isn’t going anywhere and I don’t  want a new coach bc there’s no home run hire out there and I don’t want to start over.”

He on the payroll? Help me understand.

Todd wants to use his new shot doctor business to help the players. I guess they haven’t asked for his help. I believe he would be back to telling it how it is if he wasn’t wanting to get in with the team and help out (get paid). I think Todd would be more harsh like years past if he wasn’t promoting his business.

[HinnyHoosier]

2 hours ago, Hornsby said:

Yep. The biggest issue dolson now has is even if you offer to buy him out will he actually leave or dare them to fire him? Woodson knows its a bad look for them if they fire him so I think he believes he holds all the cards now.

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I feel that belief is beginning to waver for him. He changed his tune in the post-game today and finally shouldered his own blame. He's either beginning to accept the reality of his situation or he's being a good soldier and following orders to change that tune. That tells me he knows he's not untouchable.

[Hornsby]

I feel that belief is beginning to waver for him. He changed his tune in the post-game today and finally shouldered his own blame. He's either beginning to accept the reality of his situation or he's being a good soldier and following orders to change that tune. That tells me he knows he's not untouchable.

I still think he is untouchable but he was told to say that.

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[HinnyHoosier]

6 minutes ago, Hornsby said:

I still think he is untouchable but he was told to say that.

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That's my point. He did what he was told. I see over and over again on the board about how arrogant he is and never takes responsibility for these outcomes. If that holds true and he truly feels he holds all the cards, he's going to continue saying what he really wants to say to the media. Today, he possibly said what someone else wanted (or instructed) him to say. It's that, or he was truly showing some humility. Either way that feels like the behavior shift of someone who's tushy is beginning to feel really, really warm and he needs to do something to cool it down.