They “Retired” Coach Woodson Thread

[Home Jersey]

6 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

I don't think anybody is actually going to harm anybody either, but these same people suggesting it could happen are going to be the same people left dumbfounded once Stevens (again), May, Pearl, etc all say "No" to IU. 

We'll end up hiring the next lucky up and comer who has zero experience managing these kinds of expectations or fan base and be right back here in another 3-4 years only under a new thread title.

Rinse, wash, repeat

Fully expect us to hire someone nobody is talking about right now. You are making no argument since you agree Woody needs to go, you’re just being contrarian. Nice of you to show up after the Iowa and Illinois games. Were you in the Bahamas again?

[AH1971]

7 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

If you and Kathy are not married, maybe you guys should DM each other. I think you would make a good couple. I'm willing to put myself and my wife out there to go out on a double date with you guys. Let me know if you two have never talked to an actual person in public and I can be the go-between to help you guys get the ball rolling. DM me if your interested :-) 

I'd rather go on a cross-country trip with my ex-wife...

No offense Kathy, I'm sure you're great. 

[KathywithaC]

3 minutes ago, Pagoda said:

Ah yes, expectations and the fan base are the problem.  Yet many other basketball schools succeed, they have expectations and engaged fans too.  Same with football schools and their football programs -- many of those fan bases are far wilder than IU's.

Maybe we just need to hire a good coach.

I agree, it’s about hiring the right person, and that happens with good leadership. Bob Knight loved fan support but was disdainful when they acted as though they understood anything about what it actually took to run a program and consistently win at an elite level. 

[go iu bb]

So the new argument is that Woodson needs to stay until the end of the season because we don't have someone that is believed will step in as interim coach and be instantly successful or that he might not get hired as the long term head coach? It doesn't matter if the interim coach is successful or not. It matters that the coach who has failed is replaced. An interim coach turning the season around is just gravy, unless he becomes the actual coach and then fails himself. I don't think any of the assistant coaches should be considered as HC so any of them would be just fine as interim.

It seems some don't understand what interim means, so I'll help:

[Chris007]

2 minutes ago, bodsbums said:

As someone who literally spends part of his day, teaching people about decision-making, I would add to this mess of the thread by saying…

1) the best decision are not made by emotion. The people who are saying that are correct.
 

2) the best decisions are made by logic and by a process. Kathy is correct in saying those things. 
 

However, in this case, logic and a reasonable process of evaluating data and history, paint us to the fact that a separation is necessary. When a separation becomes necessary it’s best to do it immediately rather than dragging it out. The emotional argument here isn’t to get rid of him. The emotional argument is to keep- ie, letting him retire with dignity as a program legend. 
 

plenty of data backs up the idea that he needs to go so you do it once your processes and your logic (data) show you this. As another poster said previously when you determine a patient is ill you don’t wait and hope that the disease will miraculously turn around or cure itself… you take the necessary steps to start fixing the problem immediately. 
 

again, having said that I will say you can’t just fire someone without any plan. You have to have a logic based plan on how you are going to deal with the interim as well as the long-term solution. Based on past experience, I struggle to see IU excelling here. In summary, that someone who deals with this a lot and also is a coach, albeit at a much lower level- I think they should move on immediately, but need to rapidly have a solid plan in place. No real good solutions to this problem that they should have solved last off-season. I apologize for the length to anyone who’s stuck with this.

 

Great post

[KathywithaC]

9 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Actually it's one poster.  But the fact remains, keeping him may result in some ugly scenes inside Assembly Hall.  It that happens its on the Administration.  

No, if that happens, it would be entirely “on” that deranged fan, who would be solely responsible for their actions.

[PartyintheVillas]

12 minutes ago, KathywithaC said:

No, I was just curious since you made it a point to mention your alumni and athletic competition and coaching status, presumably to explicitly define your credibility. If you’re not willing to share, that’s fine. Just say so.

That was me Cashy. I grew up an Indiana fan and have seen Isiah in person wearing candy stripe warmups. Playing for Knight is one of my favorite books of all time. I have sweated, cried tears of joy and failure in an Indiana lockerroom. I have spent all day in the Library studying in the stacks to get an A in a Psychology class and fought back tears on the steps outside Woodburn because I failed a physics exam that I also studied for (eventually I got it!). I partied every weekday night for Little 5 week despite waking up nauseous everyday and saying, "I am not going out tonight." I have been to NCAA competitions cheering the Hoosiers for numerous sports for men and women since my time in Bloomington was up. My kids have now seen my photos on the wall, and are Hoosier fans themselves. I am an Indiana Hoosier through and through. What's your street cred?

Edited January 15, 2025 by PartyintheVillas

[KathywithaC]

4 minutes ago, spe317 said:

Implicit bias much? 

Nothing biased in that post. I was “simply” an IU fan before I ever attended the University as a student. Many others can say the same about themselves. Nothing biased about that reality.

[PartyintheVillas]

2 minutes ago, KathywithaC said:

I agree, it’s about hiring the right person, and that happens with good leadership. Bob Knight loved fan support but was disdainful when they acted as though they understood anything about what it actually took to run a program and consistently win at an elite level. 

This includes you not knowing either.

[IU_FanClub]

I don’t really understand how it’s not a compelling reason to announce an end of season retirement and hope that it keeps this season from getting extremely ugly in Assembly Hall. Attendance this year has already been bad based on the games I’ve gone to but last night with the chants and the boos got ugly and we still have 6 more home games to go. Is it not worth trying to cool the situation down and avoid complete and total embarrassment. While I understand why people were booing and chanting last night it’s still an awful look for everyone involved and I think it’s very worth it to try to avoid that if at all possible especially considering the chances of Woodson being back next year are near zero anyway. 

[AH1971]

5 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

Fully expect us to hire someone nobody is talking about right now. You are making no argument since you agree Woody needs to go, you’re just being contrarian. Nice of you to show up after the Iowa and Illinois games. Were you in the Bahamas again?

I do not believe Brad Stevens or Dusty May or Bruce Pearl will be interested in the IU job but I don't think that's really going out on a limb.

I have talked myself into Chris Beard over the last few weeks...don't see the admin taking that approach however. I think Chris Mack deserves a second chance somewhere, I would be ok if that place was here.

Names like Ben McCollum, Bucky McMillan, Micah Shrewsbury, Josh Schertz, etc are all names that have all been floated around for some time now. I believe the next hire is much likely to come from that candidate pool. I don't think any of those guys would have a prayer here. 

[hper50]

4 minutes ago, bodsbums said:

As someone who literally spends part of his day, teaching people about decision-making, I would add to this mess of the thread by saying…

 1) the best decision are not made by emotion. The people who are saying that are correct.
 

2) the best decisions are made by logic and by a process. Kathy is correct in saying those things. 
 

However, in this case, logic and a reasonable process of evaluating data and history, paint us to the fact that a separation is necessary. When a separation becomes necessary it’s best to do it immediately rather than dragging it out. The emotional argument here isn’t to get rid of him. The emotional argument is to keep- ie, letting him retire with dignity as a program legend. 
 

plenty of data backs up the idea that he needs to go so you do it once your processes and your logic (data) show you this. As another poster said previously when you determine a patient is ill you don’t wait and hope that the disease will miraculously turn around or cure itself… you take the necessary steps to start fixing the problem immediately. 
 

again, having said that I will say you can’t just fire someone without any plan. You have to have a logic based plan on how you are going to deal with the interim as well as the long-term solution. Based on past experience, I struggle to see IU excelling here. In summary, that someone who deals with this a lot and also is a coach, albeit at a much lower level- I think they should move on immediately, but need to rapidly have a solid plan in place. No real good solutions to this problem that they should have solved last off-season. I apologize for the length to anyone who’s stuck with this.

 

ding ding ding ding ding

[OKHOOSIER]

13 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

What is the negative side of doing it now? People have posted a plethora of advantages but we haven’t heard one reason not to.

I don’t trust our admin not to do something stupid and hire an interim full time that wins some games. 
 

Announce he is retiring, start the search for the next guy and flush this entire staff five seconds after the season is over. That’s what needs to happen and what I believe will happen despite what I want/think a serious program would do. I’ve stated before, we make unserious moves over and over and over, so until the leopard changes its spots so to speak I will continue to believe that. 

Since viscera has been a topic of conversation today— I stopped having visceral reactions to Indiana Basketball losses about a dozen or so blowouts ago. 

[IUGRAD06]

44 minutes ago, KathywithaC said:

No one has offered a thoughtful reason to replace him now, which is why it makes little sense. 

The thoughtful response is you don’t keep something that clearly is not working.  You replace him and try to salvage the season and let it be known that the interim will not get the job.  You give it to Chaney or Hulls and let them finish.  Get the others out of the way and replace them.  
 

These idiots on the bench being the head coach and assistants are clearly over their heads.  I tell this to my teams all the time.  Something isn’t working, we have to figure out a better option.  Clearly the option isn’t Woodson.  I replace my managers mid project when it is not going smoothly.  

[Home Jersey]

1 minute ago, AH1971 said:

I do not believe Brad Stevens or Dusty May or Bruce Pearl will be interested in the IU job but I don't think that's really going out on a limb.

I have talked myself into Chris Beard over the last few weeks...don't see the admin taking that approach however. I think Chris Mack deserves a second chance somewhere.

Names like Ben McCollum, Bucky McMillan, Micah Shrewsbury, Josh Schertz, etc are all names that have all been floated around for some time now. I believe the next hire is much likely to come from that candidate pool. I don't think any of those guys would have a prayer here. 

Mostly agree… I think they’d have a much better shot than what Mike Woodson has shown here.

[realTomCrean]

3 hours ago, KathywithaC said:

I think you and others are going to continue to be disappointed if you believe we’re moving on Woodson before the season concludes. Not sure what conversations you’ve heard about since we lost to Illinois, but these aren’t people and this isn’t a culture prone to knee jerk decisions and actions. I know there are some restless people who are talking about “where do we go from here” (this is a direct quote), but it’s not a January action item. 

Knee Jerk reaction? 0-9 in last 9 ranked games. Of all games lost under Woodson, 40% by 15+. Knee Jerk reaction - you're a clown Kathy. How about STANDARD and firing because it is UNACEPPTABLE at Indiana University to get beat by 25 2 games in a row. You carry Woodson's water so hard. "Action Item" haha ok great jargon - sounds foolish. What more must happen for the man to lose his job? We have players that are getting paid $500k+ with no ROI, pushing/shoving, 0 effort. Knee jerk reaction for me currently is that you are in Woodson's circle and quite frankly (sorry to be rude) have the basketball IQ of Kenny Payne and the administrative/organizational IQ of Johnny Manziel.

This quoted post is the last post of yours I've read so far, but I'm going to guess your rebuttal, if not already posted, is "what good will it do for IU to fire him right now" My answer is resoundingly in accord with nearly all IU fans in that the Standards at IU demand(!) he loses his job for incompetence, lack of effort, lack of IQ, eg. Who the hell would support IU Athletics if this is tolerated? 

The results, effort, and arrogance of this basketball organization is embarrassing. I know you're embarrassed Kathy

[AH1971]

Just now, Home Jersey said:

Mostly agree… I think they’d have a much better shot than what Mike Woodson has shown here.

Probably. It still wouldn't be good enough though. 

[go iu bb]

44 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Here’s the reason. Not saying it is so compelling that there aren’t counter arguments, but there is a real reason:

There are no good options right now. Given that there are no good options, the “less bad option“ might be to create a situation in which a program legend 65 year-old head coach doesn’t get the living **** booed out of him during every home game. That is deflating for the fan base, humiliating for Coach Woodson, and extraordinarily demoralizing for the players.

It also shows that the administration is actually taking steps to correct the issue. Increases the likelihood the new coach is hired in a timely fashion at the end of the season, early enough to take advantage of the portal to possibly field a competitive team next season.

[Pagoda]

3 minutes ago, KathywithaC said:

I agree, it’s about hiring the right person, and that happens with good leadership. Bob Knight loved fan support but was disdainful when they acted as though they understood anything about what it actually took to run a program and consistently win at an elite level. 

You have no understanding of what it takes to run a successful basketball program or really any sort of organization.  IU doesn't either, though I am hoping Scott is the exception.

[IUCrazy2]

1 hour ago, KathywithaC said:

I get that - we’d just be looking to calm the overly emotional reaction of some fans who aren’t able to do that for themselves. Why would that be a good reason to do something?

Are you familiar with the launch of New Coke?  Perception can kill your product.  The emotions of the fans (short for fanatics) is THE reason that anybody gives a flying f--- about college sports anyway.  The money it brings in because of emotional connections.  National media was highlighting how much of an embarrassment that game was.  Local media guy put on a national platform the student exodus at halftime.  The sales job of "Hey, we are there and we just need a dude to lead us..." becomes much more difficult if that scene plays out at multiple home games to end the year.

Honestly, if you are an example of the type of thinking of people in charge, we're f---ed anyways.  Not an ounce of business acumen to be found, which is in itself ironic.