They “Retired” Coach Woodson Thread

[FortWayneHoosier]

8 minutes ago, Artie86 said:

…. Is there a filter setting the Mods can set a “limit” or “time out” period for excessively negative and combative posters? Lol 

…..good grief, this board!

SMH

Possibly. We try to read and keep up with this thread best as possible. We have removed posts that we felt were personal/over the line. 

 

The issue is right in the title of this thread, it’s negative therefore inviting a lot of negativity in the posts themselves. I feel the board has done a good job of not bleeding negativity in other threads. We are okay with letting this thread be negative as long as it doesn’t become personal attacks. 

[RaceToTheTop]

There have been reports that Cupps could be entering the transfer portal in the offseason.  Something to think about when a coach puts a kid on the court for more minutes than he would probably get on any power 5 team (except freaking DePaul I guess), there is an issue.  If Cupps goes to another power 5 team, his minutes are going to get horribly.  If he down transfers to a mid major, they are probably still going to be just slightly more, maybe the same.

And the truth is that the fan base really hasn't treated Cupps poorly.  By and large the blame of Cupps being on the court so much has been blamed on Woodson, not Cupps.

[JF87]

38 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Going to be there and do hope to see a win.  Hope X goes out on a high note and that we don't see Galloway go through senior day.

Agree, I know that Xavier's IU career had some highs and lows and he has his detractors (me at times).  I hope the crowd pays him proper respect for the time and effort he has put in for us.  

[Trish]

6 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

There have been reports that Cupps could be entering the transfer portal in the offseason.  Something to think about when a coach puts a kid on the court for more minutes than he would probably get on any power 5 team (except freaking DePaul I guess), there is an issue.  If Cupps goes to another power 5 team, his minutes are going to get horribly.  If he down transfers to a mid major, they are probably still going to be just slightly more, maybe the same.

And the truth is that the fan base really hasn't treated Cupps poorly.  By and large the blame of Cupps being on the court so much has been blamed on Woodson, not Cupps.

I think Cupps stays regardless of who the coach is. I see Trey, Malik, and Mack all transferring elsewhere. They can play at better programs for better coaches for just as much money. 

[IUCrazy2]

8 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

There have been reports that Cupps could be entering the transfer portal in the offseason.  Something to think about when a coach puts a kid on the court for more minutes than he would probably get on any power 5 team (except freaking DePaul I guess), there is an issue.  If Cupps goes to another power 5 team, his minutes are going to get horribly.  If he down transfers to a mid major, they are probably still going to be just slightly more, maybe the same.

And the truth is that the fan base really hasn't treated Cupps poorly.  By and large the blame of Cupps being on the court so much has been blamed on Woodson, not Cupps.

Cupps is the type of player people wish Woodson was getting as like the third or fourth guy in a recruiting class.  Kids like him usually take a bit of time to get acclimated and I think that is especially true when it is clear their coach is telling them A)you need to get the ball to the post and B)it isn't my job to get you shots.  Cupps is a system player.  I bet he is a 8 to 10 point a night kid at a place like Purdue or Wisconsin where it is the coaches job to get players shots.

I think the kid can play and if you keep players like him around for 4 years, they are the type that pay dividends.  We are Mercenary U under Woodson though.  He had no intention of building anything but a team (not a program) that would get him to the Finals and he could walk off with his brilliance proven.  It is an attempt at the Lakers approach to roster building.  We don't draft and develop guys, we just go and take our pick of free agents.  I think that is what he was expecting to be able to do here.  Cupps doesn't fit that model.  Cupps does fit the model of a bunch of teams that have been stealing our lunch for a long time though....

[cleeter]

Woodson is getting year 4. That’s all there is too it. Blame the fans, blame whoever. But we can sulk in it all we want, but facts are facts. It’s time to stop attacking each other and either realize your love for Indiana and fully support the team you love and hope they kill it in the portal and have a great season, or say screw it and not care or hope they suck or whatever you want to do. But just because people go one way or the other doesn’t make one person right or wrong. I hate Woodson, I want him gone. But there are my Hoosiers and that love will never fade. Sorry, Rant over.

 

 

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[Cd71]

Sure am having fun watching this Fla Atlantic team play their guts out.  Kind of remind me of Houston,  not as talented but leave everything on the court.  

[lillurk]

1 minute ago, Cd71 said:

Sure am having fun watching this Fla Atlantic team play their guts out.  Kind of remind me of Houston,  not as talented but leave everything on the court.  

Just so easy to imagine their style, effort, joy with P5 talent. Why wait?

[OKHOOSIER]

7 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

There have been reports that Cupps could be entering the transfer portal in the offseason.  Something to think about when a coach puts a kid on the court for more minutes than he would probably get on any power 5 team (except freaking DePaul I guess), there is an issue.  If Cupps goes to another power 5 team, his minutes are going to get horribly.  If he down transfers to a mid major, they are probably still going to be just slightly more, maybe the same.

And the truth is that the fan base really hasn't treated Cupps poorly.  By and large the blame of Cupps being on the court so much has been blamed on Woodson, not Cupps.

Yea no one has been bashing Cupps, his minutes were a by product of other issues that were not his fault. Woody continuing to ride him in games where he was so overmatched at both ends frankly made me feel bad for Cupps. It wasn’t just IU fans. Every Reddit game thread had opposing fans observing how hard he was trying chasing around players he shouldn’t have been on the floor with. Cupps is not B1G caliber PG. not now, not in four years. Hope I’m wrong and he can develop. But development isn’t going to add size or athleticism. I think he’d be great at a place like Dayton. It speaks to one of the systemic issues— woody not putting his players in a position to succeed for most of the season. The last few games are a perfect example. Tight rotations, playing your horses with 2 fouls, less time with 2 centers on the floor, pulling non-contributors as soon as possible for rest, moving in transition, basically all the things we and the IU media were screeching for in November December and January. This is not a team devoid of talent despite the roster holes, Woody has himself to blame for this smoke. There is a tournament team in this bunch. And it would have been a good coaching job and this thread wouldn’t exist and we’d probably have some recruits for 24.

[IU_FanClub]

This isn’t the fans fault. I agree the fake IU “reporters” and “podcasts” are an issue though. Just wish that everyone that is constantly shitting on the fanbase would take a second to realize it’s a loud immature minority faction off the fanbase making everyone look bad. People pointing it out on social media to make themselves feel better about themselves are just throwing gas on the fire.

In reality, Woodson has done a really poor job as IU coach and  all of the little things he lacks in have stacked up and created a mess. I have very little faith he is going to turn it around and think it’s pretty dumb that we’re going to keep him just to keep him. That is the real problem here not the small group of idiots that have a loud dumb voice online. If people didn’t somewhat believe that the general message those people are pushing is correct they would just ignore them. But I think everyone knows Woodson isn’t going to work whether it ends this year or hurts the program a bit more for the next year plus.

 

The things he struggles the most with that need fixing are:

 

recruiting foundational pieces 

Player development 

play style

game management (timeouts, subs, etc how many times have we had the ball this year at the end of the first half with the shot clock off and not gotten a shot off?!

too many cooks in the kitchen, why do we need a bunch of advisors when we have 3 highly paid assistant coaches?

[RaceToTheTop]

2 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

Know you don’t care for my reply but I agree here as well. I said months ago if you can get a Pearl, do it. That is what it will take. Dusty type isn’t the guy to turn this type of mess. 
 

Pearl stuff was smoke. I am not sure what other name could do that. Maybe, Cronin but he is pretty abrasive. Oats? 
 

In some ways, that might be the biggest question of all. Can IU get one of those guys. I don’t think they can or would do it.

I'm calmer now.  You and I have gone around in the past, were steady for a while, and reaching a boiling point again. 

Whether or not Pearl stuff was smoke wasn't the point in posting the Pearl pic.  It was about self awareness that a coach should have when entering a job.  Pearl was self aware enough to know that the simply act of showing up shirtless at an Auburn football game would stoke the fan base and help the basketball program in the process.  And that is an act that Auburn fans have never forgotten.

Take a look at the last three Indiana coaches:  Crean, Miller, and Woodson.

Crean was given a longer leash at the beginning of his term because of the situation, yes, BUT he lasted nine years not because he was given a free couple of years.  He did win in the middle of his term -- a few of those pretty decisively.  And while Crean was a....strage guy...he did for the most part embrace the community.  Small things like saying when he was hired 'It's Indiana' played to the base.  Archie Miller lasted much shorter mostly for his lack of wins, but the issue he had with fans getting behind him was also partially because I don't think coming in he really understand the fishbowl he was going to be in.

Woodson simply doesn't relate to the fan base in general outside of mostly the grey hairs who remember him playing in the 70s.  He has been openly hostile to the media, coaches of other sports, and fans who question.  Imagine if he had come in when Crean had instead.....that still doesn't play.  Crean coming into a landmine bought a little time, but if Crean had been openly disdainful to those around him he wouldn't have been around long enough to see the fruits of his labor.

[IUbmann]

I’ve seen nothing concrete about anyone specific transferring. In fact, Trilly said specifically the Trey rumors aren’t true. So, idk about any of that stuff. 

[FortWayneHoosier]

1 minute ago, IUbmann said:

I’ve seen nothing concrete about anyone specific transferring. In fact, Trilly said specifically the Trey rumors aren’t true. So, idk about any of that stuff. 

Welcome!!!! We hope to see you stick around and interact! Thanks for the VIP membership 

[IUCrazy2]

6 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

We can be on same page here. Maybe even on Cupps thing too if I read you but not sure I want to go there and start another fire. 

I just struggle with who we can get. I have always been of assumption that until we can get “that guy” we can move on. I think that may be exactly what has happened.

You can think Dusty can be successful at a P5 while also knowing great chance he can’t be here. We can’t move on to move on.

You can't just hold on because of fear of the unknown either.

[mdiu28]

I can't believe some are still blaming the fans. That is total and complete BS. Well, sort of. 

The fans saying things was clearly just the last straw for someone who, IMO, was likely to de-commit anyway given the piss poor trajectory of our program. Wherever this kid goes in his career - college, NBA, G-League, abroad, you name it - there are going to be people criticizing him and saying negative things directed straight at him. When he's a pro you can't just run to mommy and daddy and say I don't want to play here, the fans are mean. Life isn't all sunshine and rainbows - suck it up. 

Now, I don't think the way some fans act helps at all but it certainly isn't the reason Liam de-committed and isn't the reason we don't have a big name coach - that's total BS. I personally don't think we've ever really tried outside of Brad Stevens who was a long shot to begin with. It's rare coaches come back from the NBA, outside of Woody and that should also tell you something (no one in the NBA wants him either). 

Liam will make money wherever he goes - fact - so we can't say KU or wherever he goes just threw more money at him. But if you were Liam and had the chance to make high six figures at IU and probably not go to the tournament, have no idea who you're going to be playing with, and play for a coach with an outdated style or Bill Self @ KU making the same amount of $$$ (if not more) and compete for a National Championship, be more in the National spotlight, etc - where are you going?

The decision he made was easy and it was the right one. Blaming the fans is a BS excuse and if Woody and his team actually fed that crap to HH or anyone else in the media, WTF, man? It's like he wants to go to war with the fans bc we're calling him out for his poor leadership and failure to carve a path to a consistent winner/title contender - that's ALL we want and have wanted for decades. We're pissed and if nothing changes, we'll be getting more of the same mediocrity. The fans being pissed is totally warranted - we deserve better. But taking to instagram and littering a kid's posts with negative comments - yeah - that crap needs to stop. 

[Hornsby]

I’ve seen nothing concrete about anyone specific transferring. In fact, Trilly said specifically the Trey rumors aren’t true. So, idk about any of that stuff. 

I don't put much stock in what trilly says lately. One day he had pearl to iu a done deal. Then he had our whole roster leaving. He is all over the place

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[woodenshoemanHoosierfan]

I can't keep up with 13000+ posts of the same stuff. Can someone give me a synopsis?


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[mdiu28]

5 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

You really misread the Woody and HH relationship 

I guess I'm not sure what you mean? Is there anything to misread regarding the Hysterics and Woody/his team?

It's all rumors which is why I said, "if". I will easily admit I have no idea what happened there, if anything. 

[RaceToTheTop]

9 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

We can be on same page here. Maybe even on Cupps thing too if I read you but not sure I want to go there and start another fire. 

I just struggle with who we can get. I have always been of assumption that until we can get “that guy” we can move on. I think that may be exactly what has happened.

You can think Dusty can be successful at a P5 while also knowing great chance he can’t be here. We can’t move on to move on.

Just for my personal reference -- If you go back and see my posting history, I've been the last guy that has wanted to move on from coaches in the past (except Tom Allen) and in some cases I didn't think we should have.  I personally thought that when we moved on from Crean we shouldn't have moved on as quickly as we did -- we were one year removed from a Big Ten Championship.  Archie Miller I was just more upset that it didn't work out.  I still say that on paper Archie Miller should have worked out but it didn't.  The hiring of Woodson seemed strange but if you go back on my timeline you'll see I was all for giving it a chance.  Mike Davis ended up losing support of the some in the fan base for his failure to recruit Indiana, but that is something I really haven't felt was that improtant.  If you can play I don't care if you are from Mars.

And yet here I am with Woodson saying we've seen enough after three years.  I see in no way him ever addressing or fixing what is wrong.  To me you can either give a guy who you know isn't the answer and then try to bring someone into an even more damaged product or you move on now.  Next guy may or may not have it, but in my estimation that is better then sticking with something you know doesn't and refuses to listen or answer to legitimate questions.

[RaceToTheTop]

9 minutes ago, Hornsby said:

I don't put much stock in what trilly says lately. One day he had pearl to iu a done deal. Then he had our whole roster leaving. He is all over the place

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Trilly had said the Trey rumors weren't true a couple of weeks ago but later made some general statements about IU players that didn't seem to be as definitive.  Whoever Trilly is, he isn't changing his mind -- he is going with the most up to date information he's been given.  I'd much rather that occur than just sticking with a statement despite conflicting info coming out.