Fire Coach Woodson Thread

[AH1971 1,790]

3 minutes ago, jumpshot53 said:

The every coach deserves 4 years argument made sense when most recruits were coming from high school, or the players were transfers that had to sit a year before playing.  That was fair to the coaches that had to wait for their players to arrive and develop.

Now, in these times, players can come and go quickly.  Instant teams can be assembled.  Anyone with good eyes can tell in one or two years if a coach knows how to coach.    Look at Woodson's results!  My Gawd,  do we have to discuss the flaws in his game planning?

I disagree that every coach needs  4 years or more to show his stuff.  I understand that injuries can ruin a good year, but even then, as long as the coach is putting good effort on the floor,  he will be given more of a chance.  Woodson is just a horrible coach.  That's all I can say.

Winning instantly (because of the portal) doesn't translate to building and establishing a culture. We've had one coach do that the last 25 years (Crean) and he was by far and away our best coach since RMK. The portal alleviates 6-25 seasons in year 1, but if you're buying 7-8 guys every single offseason, you aren't building or establishing anything. 

I'd much rather a coach spend his first year or two identifying, developing, and building a culture that sets up for much further long term success regardless of record than purchasing a bunch of rentals because it might mean you win 20 games and play in the NCAAT. Call me old school, call me an outlier, call me whatever you want but you aren't going to eliminate 30+ years of frustration in one or two seasons because of the portal. That I promise.

[Uspshoosier 47,241]

Archie got 4 years at IU 

Year 1 his team wasn’t good enough to be in the tourney picture 

Year 2 lost 12 of 13 games and still was 2nd team out and lost a play in game against Ohio st in the B1G tourney 
 

Year 3 the tournament got cancelled and his team never got the opportunity to make a run in the tourney that his team earned the right to participate in 

his last year he coached a full year without the advantage of home court when playing at Assembly Hall.  Archie might of got 4 years but those last 2 years are 2 that no other Indiana coach ever had to deal with. 
 

regardless he wasn’t the right coach for IU just as Woody was never the right coach for IU.   Step back in the box and swing away 

[DoctorP 1,318]

20 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Ius last win against a tournament quality top 5 seed was February 25, 2023.  Pretty sure any coach hired moving forward can do better then that 

The noise is why Crean gushed “It’s Indiana, it’s Indiana” from day one.
If we as a fanbase didn’t bring the noise after what we’ve seen these last 8 years then just disband the program now. 
 

We aren’t expecting Banners. Just get us into this expanded tournament most years and every 3-4 years we should be a top 4 seed. 
There’s around 80 P5 teams? With our history, resources, and love for basketball in this state we should be consistently among the top half of that 80. We should not be having 8 year periods like we just did—especially in this new era of transfer/NIL

[Pagoda 1,290]

1 minute ago, WeeDerkaNaut said:

And as far as the "noise" and pressure of being IU's HC? I'm not a coach by any means but I'd be chomping at the bit if I was and got offered the job. And I'd be doing everything I could to make the fans as happy as possible. You get the fans going nuts for you in AH and that becomes deafening pressure on the opposing team. Also to be the one to turn the program around and get us back to our winning ways? I'd be all in for that chance. But what do I know? 

Yea.  Our fans aren’t that bad.  Just a bunch of nice midwesterners.  Woody only ran into issues when his program completely imploded on the court and recruiting.  It was all his fault. 

Heck, we were not good last year and still had a huge fan showing at MSG and Atlanta.  Home attendance was good too for a bad team ranked in the 90’s.

Coaches should know how to manage fans, it’s not hard.  Fans are a valuable asset like you said — they cheer and donate.  They might get mad online — who cares.  If a coach praises the fans and takes accountability for results, fans will give the coach quite a bit of leeway.  Woody did the opposite, which doesn’t pair well with the awful results he produces.

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 9,547]

Just now, AH1971 said:

Winning instantly (because of the portal) doesn't translate to building and establishing a culture. We've had one coach do that the last 25 years (Crean) and he was by far and away our best coach since RMK. The portal alleviates 6-25 seasons in year 1, but if you're buying 7-8 guys every single offseason, you aren't building or establishing anything. 

I'd much rather a coach spend his first year or two identifying, developing, and building a culture that sets up for much further long term success regardless of record than purchasing a bunch of rentals because it might mean you win 20 games and play in the NCAAT. Call me old school, call me an outlier, call me whatever you want but you aren't going to eliminate 30+ years of frustration in one or two seasons because of the portal. That I promise.

I agree. 

But we can certainly show a modern vision of how we want to play basketball, at a minimum. 

You bring Rice, Tucker, and Malik back moving forward with a new coach--- Sisley will be in the mix, find a spring de-commit that fits what you want to do.... That's a great start and it's worlds different than what Crean had coming back/started with. 

[WoodywithaL 20]

1 hour ago, go iu bb said:

This is more likely: 

Where did you get my picture?

[Eagle’s Rug 332]

1 minute ago, AH1971 said:

Winning instantly (because of the portal) doesn't translate to building and establishing a culture. We've had one coach do that the last 25 years (Crean) and he was by far and away our best coach since RMK. The portal alleviates 6-25 seasons in year 1, but if you're buying 7-8 guys every single offseason, you aren't building or establishing anything. 

I'd much rather a coach spend his first year or two identifying, developing, and building a culture that sets up for much further long term success regardless of record than purchasing a bunch of rentals because it might mean you win 20 games and play in the NCAAT. Call me old school, call me an outlier, call me whatever you want but you aren't going to eliminate 30+ years of frustration in one or two seasons because of the portal. That I promise.

So Woodson’s lazy approach to recruiting and over reliance on the portal to make up for that must have really turned you off.

[Deserthoozier 1,065]

1 hour ago, AH1971 said:

The whole extortion thing with his assistant coach was weird and I'm sure that played a part. But I do think Mack is one of the few coaches with the personality, the demeanor, and the ego to handle a job with this kind of noise. 

On Mack, if there was ever a ‘wish I could do that one over’ moment, it’s got to be when he tried to entrap Dino Gaudio while privately recording his ask to stay on or get paid, which immediately reversed on Mack and became the catalyst for his firing w/out a buyout! Bet he wishes he just Armond Hill’ed Gaudio and given him $200k to just sit on the bench and cheer. (I know, that’s more than Armond does most games, but same idea). He brought the AD the recording, and the AD got a huge smile and said ‘thank you so much…you don’t know how valuable this is!’ They certainly DGAF about ‘optics’.

On your past…you’ve got to own it bruh! Giving Woody a FOURTH year was a really poor decision on many fronts. Optics be damned…no one cares or talks about ‘optics’ when you’re winning and making a big run in the tournament. Woody hadn’t shown much coaching chops, was carried by Trayce for two years…and had a lot of other red flag that had surfaced at the end of last season. A coach who believes in himself will step right up and accept the $10M+ to take a chance at greatness. One who’s worried about optics, shouldn’t be your guy to start with. In fact, focusing on optics and not on creating a winning culture has been at the root of the great deal of administrative malfeasance we’ve had to suffer the past 20 or so years!

 

[WeeDerkaNaut 456]

1 minute ago, Pagoda said:

Yea.  Our fans aren’t that bad.  Just a bunch of nice midwesterners.  Woody only ran into issues when his program completely imploded on the court and recruiting.  It was all his fault. 

Heck, we were not good last year and still had a huge fan showing at MSG and Atlanta.  Home attendance was good too for a bad team ranked in the 90’s.

Coaches should know how to manage fans, it’s not hard.  Fans are a valuable asset like you said — they cheer and donate.  They might get mad online — who cares.  If a coach praises the fans and takes accountability for results, fans will give the coach quite a bit of leeway.  Woody did the opposite, which doesn’t pair well with the awful results he produces.

Exactly, and one of my goals as a HC would be to make our fan base cheer and yell for us as loud as they possibly can. Our fanbase can get extremely loud in support, you just have to give them a reason to :D

[AnotherSznOnTheBrink 287]

24 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

We don't hire the "wrong" coaches. We hire the best available candidates. Those thinking IU voluntarily hired Archie over Billy Donovan or chose to retain Woodson over Bruce Pearl don't live in an accepted reality. Anybody who operates on the line of thinking that the IU job is one you cannot turn down hasn't been paying attention the last few decades.

The IU job is a good job as in it: a) pays well b) gives you the resources to succeed c) rewards you for success

But to think that the IU job is on a tier of its own is pure nonsense. It isn't.  

If a shoebox applied last go around, then we didn’t hire the right candidate. 

[Hoosier DaDa 3,059]

4 hours ago, Chris007 said:

I can verify all of this and have heard none from AP2345. I will add that Brad's dad is an IU grad and I think he really wants Brad to coach IU while he is still able to enjoy it. Or so I've been told. There is more but that is the gist of it

Got to make dad happy with no delay so come on down to BTown Brad and save the day.

ps: will be here all week 

[jumpshot53 186]

2 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Winning instantly (because of the portal) doesn't translate to building and establishing a culture. We've had one coach do that the last 25 years (Crean) and he was by far and away our best coach since RMK. The portal alleviates 6-25 seasons in year 1, but if you're buying 7-8 guys every single offseason, you aren't building or establishing anything. 

I'd much rather a coach spend his first year or two identifying, developing, and building a culture that sets up for much further long term success regardless of record than purchasing a bunch of rentals because it might mean you win 20 games and play in the NCAAT. Call me old school, call me an outlier, call me whatever you want but you aren't going to eliminate 30+ years of frustration in one or two seasons because of the portal. That I promise.

Woodson's culture wouldn't change no matter how he got his players.  He can't coach good basketball.  There are coaches doing just fine with putting their teams together.   Woodson just can't coach winning basketball.

[Uspshoosier 47,241]

February 25 2023 at Purdue was the last time this fan base enjoyed a win over a top team.  People wonder why the fan base is angry and hungry to move in a different direction.  
 

[Juwan Moye 366]

3 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

February 25 2023 at Purdue was the last time this fan base enjoyed a win over a top team.  People wonder why the fan base is angry and hungry to move in a different direction.  
 

On a scale of 1 to Armond Hill, how tired are fans of this?

[Chris007 47,527]

32 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Can you have him ask for a new basketball coach?  :)  

I don't think Cig wants himself or his players around the basketball program. He's afraid something will rub off

[nerdvana 376]

[OldBuddy67 286]

12 minutes ago, Juwan Moye said:

On a scale of 1 to Armond Hill, how tired are fans of this?

Woodson loves havin sleepy Armond around because it makes him look/feel less lazy!

[Chris007 47,527]

4 minutes ago, OldBuddy67 said:

Woodson loves havin sleepy Armond around because it makes him look/feel less lazy!

I wonder if Woodson is not on the plane later today would Armond still go? Or just in general if we retire Woodson will Armond step down too mid-season

[Stuhoo 82,691]

Just now, Chris007 said:

I wonder if Woodson is not on the plane later today would Armond still go? Or just in general if we retire Woodson will Armond step down too mid-season

Pretty much guaranteed that Woody's last game on the IU bench will also be Armond's last game on the IU bench. Now watch them name Armond the interim coach, as the only one on that bench that has college head coaching experience.

[Silat Player 646]

48 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

We don't hire the "wrong" coaches. We hire the best available candidates. Those thinking IU voluntarily hired Archie over Billy Donovan or chose to retain Woodson over Bruce Pearl don't live in an accepted reality. Anybody who operates on the line of thinking that the IU job is one you cannot turn down hasn't been paying attention the last few decades.

The IU job is a good job as in it: a) pays well b) gives you the resources to succeed c) rewards you for success

But to think that the IU job is on a tier of its own is pure nonsense. It isn't.  

Now I know you're trolling. Woody was absolutely NOT the "best available coach." 

Dude had ZERO college basketball coaching experience. 

I'm sure that IU could've hired a coach with college basketball experience...