Fire Coach Woodson Thread

[deserthoosier 6]

2 hours ago, Chris007 said:

Miller coached at a school you could win at not FAU. That’s the difference. Dusty is not Archie. We’re about to see At Louisville 

I am on multiple forums and see the Archie vs. Dusty comparisons. It's so ridiculous that people think it's apples to apples...Dayton and FAU.

[OKHOOSIER 1,879]

5 hours ago, cthomas said:

This has been really comical to me. The angst, the gnashing of teeth, the doomsday predictions. On top of that, the trashing of legendary IU basketball players who have done the work to actually accomplish something. Let's start with Quinn Buckner. He was the point guard on the last undefeated national championship team. Arguably the best college basketball team ever. Nothing but respect from me. I've seen shots taken at I. Thomas. One of the best point guards ever and the reason that '81 banner is hanging in Assembly Hall. Maybe CMW is not the guy who brings IU back to national prominence. But he was an outstanding player and he deserves respect for that. I truly don't understand the mentality of fans in the social media era. Admittedly, I'm one of the old guys. I go back to Branch McCracken. I've seen IU basketball at best and at its worst. If we ever want to right this ship, it needs to start with respecting those who built the legacy, not making fun of them. CBK was lightning in a bottle. We've been though several coaches since and none have measured up to our standards. Maybe the problem is us. Just my unsolicited opinion. Flame away, at this point I don't care.

That is certainly a take. The problem isn’t us, we are the rubes who still spend outrageous amounts of money on a program that’s been mostly .500 in the B1G for half of my lifetime. If you’re saying the standards are too high, that’s almost something I can agree with. I’m not what I would consider old or young, but I’m nearly forty and I wasn’t alive when all those guys played for IU and hung banners. I know them in the abstract as legends, I know them in reality as failed NBA coaches or front office. Or in Isaiah’s case a guy who MJ disliked so much he wasn’t on the dream team which was coached by his former head coach. That kind of thing doesn’t happen in a vacuum either. People don’t get blind respect from me. Past actions do not allow for blanket support in the face of detrimental program decisions. And CMW and QB are clearly making decisions at the detriment of IU basketball— the program is more important to me than the feelings or status of people that played there in the past. And right now? Those two are bigger than the program. Decisions aren’t being made for winning basketball, they’re being made to allow for as another poster stated— a vanity project. And that deserves all the criticism they get. 

[JSHoosier 19,658]

9 hours ago, cthomas said:

This has been really comical to me. The angst, the gnashing of teeth, the doomsday predictions. On top of that, the trashing of legendary IU basketball players who have done the work to actually accomplish something. Let's start with Quinn Buckner. He was the point guard on the last undefeated national championship team. Arguably the best college basketball team ever. Nothing but respect from me. I've seen shots taken at I. Thomas. One of the best point guards ever and the reason that '81 banner is hanging in Assembly Hall. Maybe CMW is not the guy who brings IU back to national prominence. But he was an outstanding player and he deserves respect for that. I truly don't understand the mentality of fans in the social media era. Admittedly, I'm one of the old guys. I go back to Branch McCracken. I've seen IU basketball at best and at its worst. If we ever want to right this ship, it needs to start with respecting those who built the legacy, not making fun of them. CBK was lightning in a bottle. We've been though several coaches since and none have measured up to our standards. Maybe the problem is us. Just my unsolicited opinion. Flame away, at this point I don't care.

We can respect what they did as players at IU while being honest about what they've done since.

Buckner was the point guard on an undefeated team, even all defense in the NBA. He was a horrible coach that got fired after just one year and is putting his friend over the good of the program.

Woodson was a great player at IU and NBA journeyman. Not a particularly good coach though and despite how the NBA recycles coaches after the Knicks fired him (after just 3 years) no one gave him another HC gig and was out of coaching completely for a couple years. He should've never been in consideration as IU coach. He's either got a huge ego or knows his friend is protecting him, or some combination of both.

Thomas was a great college player and NBA all star. He was an awful coach and horrible executive that drove the CBA into the ground.

For students today and many fans the players you're thinking of exist only in pictures and known in abstract as program legends. Their accomplishments as IU players were over 40 years ago.

I respect what Woodson did as a player, it's part of why I didn't want him (aside from being a lousy coach) because it was probably going to be an ugly split. As a coach he needs to go; not next year or whenever, he should've been gone already.

Edit: and I'm about sick and tired of people saying maybe the fans are the problem or that our expectations are too high. The fans are about the only thing keeping this program somewhat relevant; holding expectations and demanding they be met is how we get back, not by making excuses and lowing standards. Tom Crean basically said just recently the fans are fine but the administration is toxic.

[MrBBall 94]

8 hours ago, cthomas said:

This has been really comical to me. The angst, the gnashing of teeth, the doomsday predictions. On top of that, the trashing of legendary IU basketball players who have done the work to actually accomplish something. Let's start with Quinn Buckner. He was the point guard on the last undefeated national championship team. Arguably the best college basketball team ever. Nothing but respect from me. I've seen shots taken at I. Thomas. One of the best point guards ever and the reason that '81 banner is hanging in Assembly Hall. Maybe CMW is not the guy who brings IU back to national prominence. But he was an outstanding player and he deserves respect for that. I truly don't understand the mentality of fans in the social media era. Admittedly, I'm one of the old guys. I go back to Branch McCracken. I've seen IU basketball at best and at its worst. If we ever want to right this ship, it needs to start with respecting those who built the legacy, not making fun of them. CBK was lightning in a bottle. We've been though several coaches since and none have measured up to our standards. Maybe the problem is us. Just my unsolicited opinion. Flame away, at this point I don't care.

Question for you: if these legends deserve the praise, they can also receive the scorn if their interests are not in the well being of the program, but rather their own interests. Just because players accomplished a lot as players, doesn’t mean they are in bubble wrap as administrators and coaches because of what they did 50 years ago. You discuss standards. Shouldn’t we have standards of excellence? Should we not expect that from the stewards of this program? Or rather we keep our hands behind our back and our mouths shut because of deference??

If it really were about the name on the front instead of the back, we wouldn’t be here today because decision makers are ACTUALLY looking at the name on the back instead of the front. I ask you think about that while we move forward. 

Edited March 23 by MrBBall

[iu-dl 1,418]

10 hours ago, Deserthoozier said:

Agree! Is there really still anything that qualifies as NCAA rules ‘baggage’ anymore?

UNC - fake classes for 20 years -lawyered up, zero penalty. Dean and Roy HOF coaches lauded by everyone. Nike has been kicking them EYBL players and related $$$ since the club league existed.

KU - payed top $$$ for talent, for like ever — completely exposed and in cahoots w/triple stripe, lawyered up won. Assistant pays a fine, or went to jail. Where has triple stripe been landing us some dudes if we’re one of their best? ok don’t answer, but it certainly wasn’t close to what they did for KU). KU literally then sued  adidas for ‘tampering’ and a month latter adidas re-signed them w/ over $100M contract. lol! Multiple sexual assault charges in the bball dorm, multiple yrs - swept under the rug. Self = HOF and lauded as one of the greatest.

MSU - Izzo buried a bunch of sexual assault/rape charges - certainly was competitive in the pre-NIL $$. Lauded as Mr. March and the best in the Big. Future HOF.

Duke - systemically best institutional hidden under the table pay for play school in history (ok UK and KU arguably right there). K - viewed as Mr. clean, lauded as best coach ever.

Alabama - Brandon Miller was textbook definition of accessory to MURDER ffs!! Teammate texted him along the lines of  ‘things are getting hot, bring me my joint,  there’s one in the chamber’. He drove the gun to the scene where his teammate grabbed it and killed a young mom. Tuscaloosa PD gave him a pass - no charges — Nate Oats didn’t sit him a single game..explained it as ‘wrong place, wrong time’. miller 2nd pick in draft, Oats viewed as one of the top 5 coaches in the country.

Could fill 1000 pages with sooo many other examples. 

The real NCAA rules are aggressively fight any charges, privately, publicly and all around - run out the clock and or create enough pressure to for them to give up..or in the worst case take a penalty - typically only pulling coach for a cupcake game or two. 

Do I like, or even respect this? Absolutely not! But, it’s the pragmatics of being successful in college (really professional) sports.

Pearl had an unauthorized bbq, and had the rifleman mildly involved in the fbi scandal I think. Child’s play. He’s not my #1, but he’s pretty good and I’d take almost anything over having to suffer through Woody’s system, attitude , ineptitude and excuses for another year watching the program further burn. Also realize the chance a change is made is negligible.
 

Oh yeah - fire Mike Woodson. 

Who are you and why are we not friends?

[LamarCheeks 17,105]

9 hours ago, ronzo4IU said:

We should probably just hire James Madison coach and make it two from that university. I really like their style.

Mark Byington -- I think he's been linked to the West Virginia opening. 

[IU Prof 735]

I agree that maintaining a historically successful program like Dayton is different than building a winning program from scratch at a place like FAU.

But winning big at a place like IU is also very different than building a winning program at a place like FAU.

[HoosierTrav 7,620]

30 minutes ago, IU Prof said:

I agree that maintaining a historically successful program like Dayton us different than building a winning program from scratch at a place like FAU.

But winning big at a place like IU is also very different than building a winning program at a place like FAU.

Are you the one who has been mentioning TJ Otzelberger? If so, I think you’ve been on to something. Cyclones look dominant and he took no time getting them there. They were AWFUL prior to him showing up too! 

[IU Prof 735]

Just now, HoosierTrav said:

Are you the one who has been mentioning TJ Otzelberger? If so, I think you’ve been on to something. Cyclones look dominant and he took no time getting them there. They were AWFUL prior to him showing up too! 

Yes, I was on him early...but I didn't realize his buyout is huge.

[IUCrazy2 2,150]

9 hours ago, cthomas said:

This has been really comical to me. The angst, the gnashing of teeth, the doomsday predictions. On top of that, the trashing of legendary IU basketball players who have done the work to actually accomplish something. Let's start with Quinn Buckner. He was the point guard on the last undefeated national championship team. Arguably the best college basketball team ever. Nothing but respect from me. I've seen shots taken at I. Thomas. One of the best point guards ever and the reason that '81 banner is hanging in Assembly Hall. Maybe CMW is not the guy who brings IU back to national prominence. But he was an outstanding player and he deserves respect for that. I truly don't understand the mentality of fans in the social media era. Admittedly, I'm one of the old guys. I go back to Branch McCracken. I've seen IU basketball at best and at its worst. If we ever want to right this ship, it needs to start with respecting those who built the legacy, not making fun of them. CBK was lightning in a bottle. We've been though several coaches since and none have measured up to our standards. Maybe the problem is us. Just my unsolicited opinion. Flame away, at this point I don't care.

Respecting those that built the legacy?  Like Brian Evans?  Like Dan Dakich?  Like Steve Risley?  All guys who were part of the program and have expressed displeasure with what Woodson has accomplished.

The problem with Woodson isn't even so much his outdated system or his W/L record.  The real problem is that he is lazy.  He doesn't have the drive to do the things it takes to be a good COLLEGE basketball coach.  When you combine that lackadaisical approach with a pretty mediocre coaching record, you get bad results.

Quinn and Isaiah and Woodson are program greats.  I am 45 years old.  One of them played his last game before I was born.  The other 2 played in a time I was alive but can't remember (while at IU, I remember Thomas in the NBA, not so much Woodson). 

"Hey, your great uncle was a great contractor back in the day.  You should hire him...."

"I did, but he only wanted to work on Monday and Tuesday and he was using hand saws to do all his cuts....my neighbor hired a guy after I hired Uncle Woody and he already has his deck in.  All I have is a foundation that isn't level."

Past greatness and love for a person and what they have done is not enough to continue to employ them when they aren't doing a good job.  Uncle Woody needs to go and do something that he is fully committed to.  Loving the idea of being the Indiana Coach isn't the same thing as loving the job.  Woody doesn't love the job and that is why he fails.

[IUFAN1976 2,393]

7 hours ago, deserthoosier said:

I am on multiple forums and see the Archie vs. Dusty comparisons. It's so ridiculous that people think it's apples to apples...Dayton and FAU.

Dayton plays in a little better conference 

[Mopladysman 278]

21 minutes ago, IU Prof said:

Yes, I was on him early...but I didn't realize his buyout is huge.

What is it after next year?

[FritzIam4IU 349]

9 hours ago, Chris007 said:

I think if we’re in this position next season I would take a look at Bryce Drew. He recruited well at Vandy, plus has our NIL

If he does well next season I could get behind this hire. Also, my wifes family knows his family very well so maybe I could get some inside info for once!

[IUCrazy2 2,150]

Adragna but "toxic"...lol.

[str8baller 4,838]

I’m trying to figure out how all these coaches are getting killed for getting upset in the first round and Bruce Pearl’s star seems to be rising around here after getting beat by an Ivy League team that wasn’t even the best team in their conference. 

[Herotime 723]

13 minutes ago, str8baller said:

I’m trying to figure out how all these coaches are getting killed for getting upset in the first round and Bruce Pearl’s star seems to be rising around here after getting beat by an Ivy League team that wasn’t even the best team in their conference. 

It’s more about track record and timing with Pearl. 

[Hoosierfan2017 20,062]

11 hours ago, cthomas said:

This has been really comical to me. The angst, the gnashing of teeth, the doomsday predictions. On top of that, the trashing of legendary IU basketball players who have done the work to actually accomplish something. Let's start with Quinn Buckner. He was the point guard on the last undefeated national championship team. Arguably the best college basketball team ever. Nothing but respect from me. I've seen shots taken at I. Thomas. One of the best point guards ever and the reason that '81 banner is hanging in Assembly Hall. Maybe CMW is not the guy who brings IU back to national prominence. But he was an outstanding player and he deserves respect for that. I truly don't understand the mentality of fans in the social media era. Admittedly, I'm one of the old guys. I go back to Branch McCracken. I've seen IU basketball at best and at its worst. If we ever want to right this ship, it needs to start with respecting those who built the legacy, not making fun of them. CBK was lightning in a bottle. We've been though several coaches since and none have measured up to our standards. Maybe the problem is us. Just my unsolicited opinion. Flame away, at this point I don't care.

They were IU players decades before I was born. To me? Thomas, Buckner, Woodson, etc. are guys actively ruining the college basketball program I care about. That’s all I know them as. Their legacies as players long before my time doesn’t shield them from criticism for the harm  they’re causing in the present day. 

[Hoosierfan2017 20,062]

22 minutes ago, str8baller said:

I’m trying to figure out how all these coaches are getting killed for getting upset in the first round and Bruce Pearl’s star seems to be rising around here after getting beat by an Ivy League team that wasn’t even the best team in their conference. 

His star is still the same. But (to the extent he’s interested) a first round exit is much better for us than a final four trip would’ve been. 

It doesn’t matter because our administration has worms for brains, but that’s where it’s coming from. 

[str8baller 4,838]

3 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

His star is still the same. But (to the extent he’s interested) a first round exit is much better for us than a final four trip would’ve been. 

It doesn’t matter because our administration has worms for brains, but that’s where it’s coming from. 

I know. I just find it funny that plays into people’s analysis.
 

He’s not coming under any scenario. Never was  because Woody isn’t being fired and never was going to be after 3 years. 

[bird4par 172]

23 hours ago, MikeRoberts said:

Almond Hill got a NIL deal with cannibis indica brand so I think he is happy where he is

Dude definitely needs to switch to sativa or at the very least a hybrid.