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Class of '66 Old Fart

IUBB vs #2 Kansas - Saturday, 12.16.23 @ 12:30 on CBS

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Here’s a problem for Woodson too.  We have a roster where there’s no help on the way really for what we are missing. He needs to keep the guys we have and land a solid contributor in the transfer portal. Our best guard is gone after this year and we have two guys clearly staring down the NBA although their play against good teams might indicate they aren’t ready.  That doesn’t mean they are staying. 
 

He either needs to keep everybody and get one stud. Or get up to 3-4 studs in the portal.  That’s not realistic given his track record. Currently we look to be a worse team in year 4. Peaking in year 2 is not a recipe for success 

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2 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Here’s a problem for Woodson too.  We have a roster where there’s no help on the way really for what we are missing. He needs to keep the guys we have and land a solid contributor in the transfer portal. Our best guard is gone after this year and we have two guys clearly staring down the NBA although their play against good teams might indicate they aren’t ready.  That doesn’t mean they are staying. 
 

He either needs to keep everybody and get one stud. Or get up to 3-4 studs in the portal.  That’s not realistic given his track record. Currently we look to be a worse team in year 4. Peaking in year 2 is not a recipe for success 

Transfer portal changes the game now a days for coaches.     No one can truly say how a teams outlook is going to look for next year until things shake out in the portal.    IU got hit with a combination of things with their guard situation.   JHS was recruited for a multiple year position however he ended up being a 1 and done.    If they originally recruited him as a 1 and done I’m guessing they recruit another lead guard in the class.     The Newton re injury of his knee was not expected for the staff.   If the staff knew he would be a red shirt they would have recruited another guard in the class.     The transfer portal was where they didn’t take advantage of the situation.  Call It being to picky or too confident they were going to get a top target in the portal they passed on several kids that would of probably of gotten plenty of opportunities here and for whatever reason the staff decided to pass on which is their choice.   The kid from Dayton that ended up at San Francisco comes to mind.    IU was in his top 5 and looked like if they pursued they would have had a great chance at landing him but early on it was reported the staff passed.   Is he a superstar? No but I feel from watching him at San Francisco he could of helped.    Staff was probably too picky in going after certain kids thinking if what they had was better or projected to better why go after some of these kids.    Clearly it didn’t work out but with the portal not being successful one year doesn’t mean they won’t be successful next year 

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17 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Here’s a problem for Woodson too.  We have a roster where there’s no help on the way really for what we are missing. He needs to keep the guys we have and land a solid contributor in the transfer portal. Our best guard is gone after this year and we have two guys clearly staring down the NBA although their play against good teams might indicate they aren’t ready.  That doesn’t mean they are staying. 
 

He either needs to keep everybody and get one stud. Or get up to 3-4 studs in the portal.  That’s not realistic given his track record. Currently we look to be a worse team in year 4. Peaking in year 2 is not a recipe for success 

And he won't have a title game run to bail him out for a few years like Davis did.

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1 hour ago, MikeRoberts said:

Assembling a roster is probably the most important part of the coaching staffs R&R.

when Golf says who should they have gotten - the answer is, there were hundreds of guards in the portal, which one we got was up to the staff and we got zero. That was the worst case scenario

 

 

100s of guards who could play at the Big 10 or Power 5 level -- please.  

There were 24 guards "ranked" above the kid we lost -- Bates.  Of the 10 shooting guards, only 5 are currently giving their teams double digits and +30% from 3.  Would any player less than that made a real difference on this team?  They went to Florida, Alabama, Arkansas, Syracuse and St. Johns.  Should IU have been able to complete with those programs to land one -- I would hope so.  But they all have better cheerleading uniforms than we do.  

The point is the ones that would make a difference don't just grow on trees.  They need to be found and developed.  It's not like they haven't brought in anyone.   X for the most part worked out, sans injuries.  Bates didn't work out.  Gun isn't working out.  JHS went to the NBA.  The new kid is hurt -- hopefully it's not career threatening. 

Is it Woodson and the coaching staff's failure for not having success to date -- yes.  And I am sure they sit in meetings and when the topic comes up Woody says "we don't need no stinking guards."   But hey, Karens gotta Karen.  Now where it is that Fire Mike Woodson thread.   

 

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1 hour ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

TJD averaged 19/9 as a sophomore and had this resume. In what world was he a “meh player” under Archie? 

2020-21 (Sophomore)
• Third Team All-American (Sporting News, NABC, USBWA)
• Honorable Mention All-American (AP)
• All-Big Ten (First Team by Media and AP; Second Team by Coaches)
• Wooden Award Finalist
• Karl Malone Award Finalist
• 2x Big Ten Player of the Week (Dec. 7, Jan. 11)
• All-Maui Invitational

If you're not first your last.  Was the kid significantly better under Woodson or Archie?  

And one player does not make a team or a program.  

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3 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

100s of guards who could play at the Big 10 or Power 5 level -- please.  

There were 24 guards "ranked" above the kid we lost -- Bates.  Of the 10 shooting guards, only 5 are currently giving their teams double digits and +30% from 3.  Would any player less than that made a real difference on this team?  They went to Florida, Alabama, Arkansas, Syracuse and St. Johns.  Should IU have been able to complete with those programs to land one -- I would hope so.  But they all have better cheerleading uniforms than we do.  

The point is the ones that would make a difference don't just grow on trees.  They need to be found and developed.  It's not like they haven't brought in anyone.   X for the most part worked out, sans injuries.  Bates didn't work out.  Gun isn't working out.  JHS went to the NBA.  The new kid is hurt -- hopefully it's not career threatening. 

Is it Woodson and the coaching staff's failure for not having success to date -- yes.  And I am sure they sit in meetings and when the topic comes up Woody says "we don't need no stinking guards."   But hey, Karens gotta Karen.  Now where it is that Fire Mike Woodson thread.   

 

Karen? 
 

IF Woodson knew we needed a guard and had a year to find one and couldn’t find one that would play for him that could be serviceable, that is a huge problem

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22 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Transfer portal changes the game now a days for coaches.     No one can truly say how a teams outlook is going to look for next year until things shake out in the portal.    IU got hit with a combination of things with their guard situation.   JHS was recruited for a multiple year position however he ended up being a 1 and done.    If they originally recruited him as a 1 and done I’m guessing they recruit another lead guard in the class.     The Newton re injury of his knee was not expected for the staff.   If the staff knew he would be a red shirt they would have recruited another guard in the class.     The transfer portal was where they didn’t take advantage of the situation.  Call It being to picky or too confident they were going to get a top target in the portal they passed on several kids that would of probably of gotten plenty of opportunities here and for whatever reason the staff decided to pass on which is their choice.   The kid from Dayton that ended up at San Francisco comes to mind.    IU was in his top 5 and looked like if they pursued they would have had a great chance at landing him but early on it was reported the staff passed.   Is he a superstar? No but I feel from watching him at San Francisco he could of helped.    Staff was probably too picky in going after certain kids thinking if what they had was better or projected to better why go after some of these kids.    Clearly it didn’t work out but with the portal not being successful one year doesn’t mean they won’t be successful next year 

I don’t think think it’s just one year we haven’t been successful getting guards.  It wasn’t just last year. We got JHS and that’s kinda it. He’s the exception as I said given our track record it doesn’t look promising.  If we can deviate from that track record then great. But it’s not likely 

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3 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

Karen? 
 

IF Woodson knew we needed a guard and had a year to find one and couldn’t find one that would play for him that could be serviceable, that is a huge problem

Yeah and it’s not like it’s rocket science. It’s been like 8 years since we have had a guard rotation good enough to compete in the big ten much less the tourney. Say what you want about Crean but he understood guard play was important 

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3 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

Karen? 
 

IF Woodson knew we needed a guard and had a year to find one and couldn’t find one that would play for him that could be serviceable, that is a huge problem

If he brought in a "serviceable" guard all the Karens would be out in force.  We don't need serviceable.  We have/had plenty of serviceable.  We need someone who can make an impact.  

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5 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

If he brought in a "serviceable" guard all the Karens would be out in force.  We don't need serviceable.  We have/had plenty of serviceable.  We need someone who can make an impact.  

Guess what, now we don’t even have serviceable. Gabe Cupps was out there doing cardio for 37 minutes yesterday. Woodson knew we needed guards and failed to deliver. He knew we needed shooting and failed to deliver. Bottom line. If you want to incessantly defend his failures, that’s your prerogative. 

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3 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

If he brought in a "serviceable" guard all the Karens would be out in force.  We don't need serviceable.  We have/had plenty of serviceable.  We need someone who can make an impact.  

Call me crazy but somebody has a better chance to make an impact than nobody 

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4 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

If he brought in a "serviceable" guard all the Karens would be out in force.  We don't need serviceable.  We have/had plenty of serviceable.  We need someone who can make an impact.  

So the entitles middle class white women would complain about serviceable players?

still not understanding how this politically charged  tag is relevant here but hey.

anywho, we could use another serviceable guard, especially if they had 1 trait that we could count on like being a lockdown defender or great shooter.

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1 minute ago, Ngw7183 said:

That is dishonest. We have Leal, we have Gunn, those are “somebody” - they are not good enough.
All the guys who could have been good enough, we didn’t get. It was year 2 of him recruiting. His guys have been great. You can’t pin those Gunn types on him. Say what you want but when you take over, goal is to retain what you can. Gunn was also ranked higher than 90% of the guys people are clamoring for. He just needs more of guys he has recruited. He went with a bird in hand there, how is everyone liking that? 

Everyone is right, the roster construction is THE issue, just made a post around that in recruiting thread.  The question is- do you lower the standard. That seems to be common theme of those fired up on this. I would disagree. 

If you want to compete for big ten titles and national championships, you can’t lower that standard. But he does need more bodies. Did he learn something in his first real portal year (it was the first big portal year last year)? Did he learn he will have to play the game more? Tell kids what they want to hear? Should be? 

I really think (my opinion) he has a standard and you can’t argue with quality of his recruits. But if he feels a kid isn’t starter level etc, he isn’t going to feed him lies. Many, many coaches do. 

That was year 3 of recruiting for him.  Let’s not misrepresent things.  And by now we have most of year 4 in the books and we have nada.  It’s a consistent problem that isn’t changing. Does he have time to recover sure. Historically is it likely for coaches struggling with roster construction after 4 cycles to turn it around. Not really 

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6 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

That was not year 3 (big stretch to say that) and to say year for is almost in the books … I know you have your stance but come on. You well know that isn’t the case. The portal was not what it is now until last year when it went crazy. 

You can be upset with where roster is while also trying to be balanced and honest. 

He got Tamar bates in year 1 recruiting.  JHS in year 2. Whiffed this past year in year 3 and is currently whiffing in year 4.  

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53 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

So the entitles middle class white women would complain about serviceable players?

still not understanding how this politically charged  tag is relevant here but hey.

anywho, we could use another serviceable guard, especially if they had 1 trait that we could count on like being a lockdown defender or great shooter.

I don't view it as "political."  You can.  To me, it's just complainers complaining to complain.  Let's just call them Billys then. 

None of you would be satisfied with a "serviceable" guard.  

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15 hours ago, Rico said:

I was 8 in ‘76.

I was 27 and in grad school on campus. I had my three year old daughter with me that semester so didn't get to enjoy like a normal student.

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2 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Fire mike woodson.  

Not saying that.  Just don’t see a chance for him to have success if something doesn’t change. I don’t expect the administration to try with the next hire either so don’t really see a point in firing him.  If we aren’t going to try and hire a qualified coach then it’s all moot anyway 

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5 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

I watched all my life because of my family. But my earliest memories of actually watching games is the 2002 run. I was 8 at the time. Was absolutely wild driving through town in the back of the truck honking(we live an hour south of BTown but people knew).

I was in a friend's hotel room watching the Elite Eight game and the final game. That team was not suppose to make that run I thought for a moment they were going to lose to Duke thank god for AJ Moye in that game.

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