They Fired Tom Allen!

[TheWatShot 14,081]

8 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Problem is, they threw a contract at him without seeing if the success could actually continue.. bigger problem is, they threw the contract at him and no one else wanted him to begin with. That should have spoken volumes. No one was ever going to try and poach him.

This post...wow. Nobody waits for any coach to prove himself anymore. When programs see something that appeals to them, they want it and they want it 10 years ago. There was very much a buzz surrounding Allen and IU football in 2020. Other AD's didn't see the flaws that some of our fans harped on for years. Did you ever consider that maybe we overpaid because others were showing interest? Not everything that happens in the athletic department ends up on the Internet. This is an incredibly myopic post. 

[Hoosierfan2017 21,537]

27 minutes ago, TheWatShot said:

This post...wow. Nobody waits for any coach to prove himself anymore. When programs see something that appeals to them, they want it and they want it 10 years ago. There was very much a buzz surrounding Allen and IU football in 2020. Other AD's didn't see the flaws that some of our fans harped on for years. Did you ever consider that maybe we overpaid because others were showing interest? Not everything that happens in the athletic department ends up on the Internet. This is an incredibly myopic post. 

One of the top things Allen’s fans (to the extent they still exist) would say in his favor was that if he succeeded here he’d stay forever instead of leaving for a better school. How true is that if we have to give him a contract that effectively renders him unfireable to get him to stay?

[HoosierX 1,582]

2 hours ago, TheWatShot said:

This post...wow. Nobody waits for any coach to prove himself anymore. When programs see something that appeals to them, they want it and they want it 10 years ago. There was very much a buzz surrounding Allen and IU football in 2020. Other AD's didn't see the flaws that some of our fans harped on for years. Did you ever consider that maybe we overpaid because others were showing interest? Not everything that happens in the athletic department ends up on the Internet. This is an incredibly myopic post. 

I'm sure there was interest from other programs, in the end though I think the chances of him getting poached by a major program were always going to be very low.

An AD at a large program would know that their fanbase couldn't care less about LEO unless the results happened quickly (and would likely denigrate it if they didn't). And relying on culture change (and arguably a gimmicky one) to turn a program around would be incredibly risky for an AD at a major program.

[Lebowski 2,746]

Let's play 'what if....'

What if.... Tom Allen's earlier success was consistent and we fans are enjoying the top rankings, top recruiting classes, coaches wanting to come Btown, successful player development, bigger budgets, and conference championship talk buzz year after year. 

Now try to convince me that top programs won't want to poach him. Good luck with that circle logic and pretzel talk.

It's foolish to say no one was ever going to poach him. Success is the most attractive woman in the room that every dude wants to date. And IUFB's head football coach was one of the most attractive girls at the 2020 prom. It would have been malpractice to let that girl ditch her date. 

Back to reality. None of that happened. And hindsight allows us to see why. CTA's biggest flaw is his loyalty to his friends/coaches. It most likely will cost him his job.

[Hoosierfan2017 21,537]

5 minutes ago, Lebowski said:

Let's play 'what if....'

What if.... Tom Allen's earlier success was consistent and we fans are enjoying the top rankings, top recruiting classes, coaches wanting to come Btown, successful player development, bigger budgets, and conference championship talk buzz year after year. 

Now try to convince me that top programs won't want to poach him. Good luck with that circle logic and pretzel talk.

It's foolish to say no one was ever going to poach him. Success is the most attractive woman in the room that every dude wants to date. And IUFB's head football coach was one of the most attractive girls at the 2020 prom. It would have been malpractice to let that girl ditch her date. 

Back to reality. None of that happened. And hindsight allows us to see why. CTA's biggest flaw is his loyalty to his friends/coaches. It most likely will cost him his job.

I mean, surely there was a middle ground in 2020 between doing nothing and doing what we did. Something that would’ve allowed IU to keep him in 2021 while seeing if 2020 was a fluke or if the program really was ascending. He went 6-2 during an anomaly of a season circumstances-wise and Dolson backed up the brinks truck like we just won back to back Nattys. 

[Hovadipo 56,456]

9 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I mean, surely there was a middle ground in 2020 between doing nothing and doing what we did. Something that would’ve allowed IU to keep him in 2021 while seeing if 2020 was a fluke or if the program really was ascending. He went 6-2 during an anomaly of a season circumstances-wise and Dolson backed up the brinks truck like we just won back to back Nattys. 

Giving Allen a Kirk Ferentz-level salary is treating him like a national title winner? He only received a $1 million pay bump after Glass gave him the $2 million bump and evergreen deal after 2019. That’s just the reality of how things work when coaches overachieve in college football. 

If they want to buy him out they can and they will. 

[Hoosierfan2017 21,537]

7 minutes ago, Hovadipo said:

Giving Allen a Kirk Ferentz-level salary is treating him like a national title winner? He only received a $1 million pay bump after Glass gave him the $2 million bump and evergreen deal after 2019. That’s just the reality of how things work when coaches overachieve in college football. 

If they want to buy him out they can and they will. 

By giving him one of the largest buyouts in college football? Absolutely. Heading into the 2021 season, Tom Allen had the 4th biggest buyout in all of college football. The top 5 at that time? Jimbo Fisher, Dabo Swinney, Nick Saban, Tom Allen, and Ryan Day. One of those 5 is not like the others… 

https://247sports.com/longformarticle/college-football-coaching-buyout-ranking-the-10-most-expensive-jimbo-fisher-dabo-swinney-nick-saban-ryan-day-173603213/amp/

We gave him a contract we couldn’t afford to get out of if, as has happened, the program completely imploded. IU realistically can’t afford to get rid of him until after 2024. Giving him the contract we gave him insured we couldn’t move on for at least 4 years. It was malpractice. 

[IUFootballHappyHappyJoyJoy 765]

13 hours ago, TheWatShot said:

I'm not sure I get the argument that IU isn't serious about football because Allen is still coaching here. His current salary was a huge mistake and an overreaction, but was that not indicative of a program that appreciated what it had and wanted to see it continue? Allen had us in a pretty good spot after 2019 and 2020. Anyone trying to argue that now or downplay it is doing so with the benefit of hindsight. A program that wasn't serious about winning would have let him walk and made a cheap hire to replace him. 

 

I fully expect him to be here next season, but not because of apathy or indifference from our AD. We'd be paying him $5 million for the next four seasons in addition to whatever we'd be paying the new coach. Where's that money coming from? This isn't like basketball where we have aging fans who would sell a kidney to see the program be a national threat again. 

Look, football was, is, and forever shall be an afterthought at Indiana University.  If they wanted football to be serious here, they wouldn't constantly be bringing in goobers from the Mid American Conference or assistant coaches with unproven track records to coach at this shithole on 17th Street and demanding people be required to buy football tickets if they want to get primo seating at Assembly Hall.  ADs who go to Indiana have to dance delicately around the subject because they don't want to outright say "Indiana football is irrelevant, and we're a basketball school" as college football is what dominates the media landscape and justifies our placement in the Big Ten, but a part of me just wishes they would so we can stop it with the charade.  Then we can finally have the excuse to just get loaded every Saturday and stop caring, and I can finally give up on my quest to see one bowl win before I die.

Tom Allen was brought in because he wasn't Kevin Wilson.  He wasn't mean, he wasn't going to upset people or cause controversy by potentially getting a lawsuit thrown at the university for possible player mistreatment.  And he got the extension thanks to Indiana having two extremely unlikely seasons that saw us thrusted into the spotlight, which now seem like the exception rather than the norm.  But he's just not a good coach.  He can't discipline them whatsoever to avoid boneheaded penalties, and he can't develop them whatsoever, which is why he's always dependent on the transfer portal.  The worst part is that he's just too loyal to his staff.  It took moving heaven and earth to convince him that Darren Hiller had to go, and by all accounts, Hiller was probably his best friend.  Good look telling him that Walt Bell is just as impotent on staff as Hiller.

So, Allen is here to stay, 3 win seasons and all, for at least two more years.

[Hovadipo 56,456]

1 minute ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

By giving him one of the largest buyouts in college football? Absolutely. Heading into the 2021 season, Tom Allen had the 4th biggest buyout in all of college football. The top 5 at that time? Jimbo Fisher, Dabo Swinney, Nick Saban, Tom Allen, and Ryan Day. One of those 5 is not like the others… 

https://247sports.com/longformarticle/college-football-coaching-buyout-ranking-the-10-most-expensive-jimbo-fisher-dabo-swinney-nick-saban-ryan-day-173603213/amp/

We gave him a contract we couldn’t afford to get out of if, as has happened, the program completely imploded. IU realistically can’t afford to get rid of him until after 2024. Giving him the contract we gave him insured we couldn’t move on for at least 4 years. It was malpractice. 

They can afford to get out of it even before the new TV deal happened. It’s a matter of taking the program seriously and choosing to which is a whole different debate. Everyone always says “but they couldn’t afford to fire a cheap OC!” They could’ve afforded to buy out Sheridan, but they chose to make Tom do it, which is honestly pretty hilarious.

If he wins 3 or 4 this year, I feel comfortable saying I’d be shocked to see him back in 2024. 

[IUFootballHappyHappyJoyJoy 765]

1 minute ago, Hovadipo said:

They can afford to get out of it even before the new TV deal happened. It’s a matter of taking the program seriously and choosing to which is a whole different debate. Everyone always says “but they couldn’t afford to fire a cheap OC!” They could’ve afforded to buy out Sheridan, but they chose to make Tom do it, which is honestly pretty hilarious.

If he wins 3 or 4 this year, I feel comfortable saying I’d be shocked to see him back in 2024. 

Oh, Indiana can afford it.  It's just they don't want to pay because it's not men's basketball.  If Woodson suddenly goes 9-21 this year, the money will be there to consider it from boosters and the media rights.  But football?  Nah, let the cheerleader rant about how much Love Each Other is important as the quarterback he can't decide on throws his third interception of the game.

[GoIU8 205]

7 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

By giving him one of the largest buyouts in college football? Absolutely. Heading into the 2021 season, Tom Allen had the 4th biggest buyout in all of college football. The top 5 at that time? Jimbo Fisher, Dabo Swinney, Nick Saban, Tom Allen, and Ryan Day. One of those 5 is not like the others… 

https://247sports.com/longformarticle/college-football-coaching-buyout-ranking-the-10-most-expensive-jimbo-fisher-dabo-swinney-nick-saban-ryan-day-173603213/amp/

We gave him a contract we couldn’t afford to get out of if, as has happened, the program completely imploded. IU realistically can’t afford to get rid of him until after 2024. Giving him the contract we gave him insured we couldn’t move on for at least 4 years. It was malpractice. 

Yep, giving him a contract they weren't ever going to buyout if it went sideways is every bit as bad as hoping somebody poaches him. But instead, Dolson decided to get in the fast lane only to go 55.

[IUFootballHappyHappyJoyJoy 765]

1 minute ago, GoIU8 said:

Yep, giving him a contract they weren't ever going to buyout if it went sideways is every bit as bad as hoping somebody poaches him. But instead, Dolson decided to get in the fast lane only to go 55.

Are we sure it goes 55?

[Lebowski 2,746]

40 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I mean, surely there was a middle ground in 2020 between doing nothing and doing what we did. Something that would’ve allowed IU to keep him in 2021 while seeing if 2020 was a fluke or if the program really was ascending. He went 6-2 during an anomaly of a season circumstances-wise and Dolson backed up the brinks truck like we just won back to back Nattys. 

In 2019 IU won 8 games. So, it's safe to say, Dolson was also looking at the previous performance other than the 2020 season. The data was telling Dolson that CTA was doing his job well.  

[Hoosierfan2017 21,537]

13 minutes ago, Hovadipo said:

They can afford to get out of it even before the new TV deal happened. It’s a matter of taking the program seriously and choosing to which is a whole different debate. Everyone always says “but they couldn’t afford to fire a cheap OC!” They could’ve afforded to buy out Sheridan, but they chose to make Tom do it, which is honestly pretty hilarious.

If he wins 3 or 4 this year, I feel comfortable saying I’d be shocked to see him back in 2024. 

If they can afford to buy him out then my arguments are null. But if he has another season like the past two and he’s back in 2024, being able to afford to buy him out but not doing so would just make that scenario all the more depressing. 

[Hoosierfan2017 21,537]

4 minutes ago, Lebowski said:

In 2019 IU won 8 games. So, it's safe to say, Dolson was also looking at the previous performance other than the 2020 season. The data was telling Dolson that CTA was doing his job well.  

We won 8 games in 2019 but didn’t beat any teams with a winning record. The teams we beat went 5-7, 1-11, 2-10, 2-10, 3-9, 5-7, 3-9, and 4-8. We capitalized on a favorable schedule, but that should’ve been in Dolson’s mind too. Maybe it was, who knows. I don’t think anyone predicted Allen imploding as fast and as bad as he has, so it’s mostly hindsight anyway. 

[GoIU8 205]

1 minute ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

We won 8 games in 2019 but didn’t beat any teams with a winning record. The teams we beat went 5-7, 1-11, 2-10, 2-10, 3-9, 5-7, 3-9, and 4-8. We capitalized on a favorable schedule, but that should’ve been in Dolson’s mind too. Maybe it was, who knows. I don’t think anyone predicted Allen imploding as fast and as bad as he has, so it’s mostly hindsight anyway. 

Looking back at 2019/2020 records, Indiana won 14 games. Only 1 win was against a team that finished the season with a winning record. Wisconsin finished 2020 4-3. Giving that coach a buyout the same level as coaches who has national titles on their resumes should honestly be a fireable offense.

[Lebowski 2,746]

1 minute ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

We won 8 games in 2019 but didn’t beat any teams with a winning record. The teams we beat went 5-7, 1-11, 2-10, 2-10, 3-9, 5-7, 3-9, and 4-8. We capitalized on a favorable schedule, but that should’ve been in Dolson’s mind too. Maybe it was, who knows. I don’t think anyone predicted Allen imploding as fast and as bad as he has, so it’s mostly hindsight anyway. 

Hopefully we get some of those type of schedules again. It was a fun season to watch. Lol. 

Yeah, that's for sure.  And it was lightning fast. I got worried after Dr. Rhea and Ballou got poached by Saban.  

[Lebowski 2,746]

6 minutes ago, GoIU8 said:

Looking back at 2019/2020 records, Indiana won 14 games. Only 1 win was against a team that finished the season with a winning record. Wisconsin finished 2020 4-3. Giving that coach a buyout the same level as coaches who has national titles on their resumes should honestly be a fireable offense.

14 games! IU winning games good teams are supposed to win. I miss those two seasons. Lol. 

[Hoosierfan2017 21,537]

11 minutes ago, Lebowski said:

Hopefully we get some of those type of schedules again. It was a fun season to watch. Lol. 

Yeah, that's for sure.  And it was lightning fast. I got worried after Dr. Rhea and Ballou got poached by Saban.  

The Big 10 will be wide open for us now that they’re getting rid of the divisions and gave us favorable protected opponents (Purdue, Maryland, Michigan State). Not wide open for us in the sense that we’ll be competing for the top obviously, but the road to a fairly consistent 7-8 wins will be a lot more manageable going forward. 3 easy non-conference games and 2 of the 3 protected games and you’re already at 5 wins. Now’s the time for the administration to really take football seriously. 

Edit: I’m actually not sure how the additions of Oregon and Washington will affect the protected games. Looks like the articles I was looking at were written before their additions. 

[Lebowski 2,746]

I think the PAC-12 additions will probably make it a wash, unless IUFB plays like they played the 2019 and 2020 seasons.  Good teams win the games they are supposed to win. And IUFB is anything but good at the moment.