General Coach Candidate News

[Home Jersey]

4 minutes ago, Josh said:

And how does that compare to other states

I don’t have numbers to back this up but I think pretty well by some metrics. There may be more total from CA and TX just because of how huge they are. Not as many as you’d think from NYC metro area or the DMV. And those aren’t really single states like Indiana. I’d be surprised if Indiana were not top 5-10. But I think this conversation is a little silly. Indiana is in a fertile recruiting ground. Local pipelines are important. Start there IMO and eventually we can become a national brand that means something then recruit like it 

[Motley's]

13 minutes ago, Napleshoosier said:

Who’s the one who was already chosen?  

 

[Hoosierfan2017]

7 minutes ago, Josh said:

And how does that compare to other states

Purdue has three Indiana kids averaging 30+ minutes and a couple more in their rotation. I’m not a “only recruit Indiana kids” guy, but it’s a lot easier to convince in-state kids to come to a struggling IU program than it is kids outside the state. It can also help build a culture as a program. 

[str8baller]

3 minutes ago, Josh said:

And how does that compare to other states

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/basketball/2019/01/22/which-state-birthed-most-active-nba-players-per-capita-indiana/2524079002/

 

 

https://1075thefan.com/playlist/the-top-10-states-that-have-produced-the-most-nba-and-aba-players/item/1

you can quantify many ways. But they do these nba lists every so often and Indiana is always top 5. In the one linked were 5 but basically 3 if you throw out the small pop outliers like n. Dakota.  
 

 

 

Indiana puts out more basketball talent than most and that’s largely due to our great HS system. 

[RoadRage]

11 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

We’re going with the transitive property to try and justify this?

This IU train wreck and 23-2 Drake are dead even in the NET.

On a neutral court this IU team would probably currently be about a five point favorite over Drake. IU would be the second highest rated team they’ve played this year. Vandy is rated higher at NET 44.

Even if what you say is true, with all the advantages of IU and this being Woodson’s 4th year and McCollum’s 1st, it says a lot, and I think they beat us easily. The Vanderbilt game was at a neutral arena….

[Magnanimous]

27 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Turrible. Because none of the current players would be experienced in McCollum’s system.

or more likely 

Turrible. Because we very likely would have a much less talented roster and they would get rolled against a steady diet of high major schools.

The hypo was with our current roster. Since we don’t even have a system this season I find it hard to believe we’d by significantly worse if these players had to run one. 

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan]

11 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

We’re going with the transitive property to try and justify this?

This IU train wreck and 23-2 Drake are dead even in the NET.

On a neutral court this IU team would probably currently be about a five point favorite over Drake. IU would be the second highest rated team they’ve played this year. Vandy is rated higher at NET 44.

Vandy also beat Beard and Company 

[AZ Hoosier]

10 minutes ago, woodenshoemanHoosierfan said:

Vandy also beat Beard and Company 

Awesome... now we can finally cross him off the list.

[Uspshoosier]

17 minutes ago, RoadRage said:

I think they beat us easily

I think Drake is a good team.  I’ve watched most their games and the whole run in the non conference where they beat Kansas st and Vandy. I’ve also seen them get taken to OT at home by Indiana St which is having a down year.    IU has lost 1 possession games to teams that are currently being projected as protected seeds  on the road and home and have beaten them on the road.   College basketball is crazy which is why it’s the greatest sport ever so anything can happen but I see no way Drake beats IU easily.  Could they win? Yeah but no way easily.   IU would probably be favored in the game 

[Stuhoo]

19 minutes ago, woodenshoemanHoosierfan said:

Vandy also beat Beard and Company 

OMG — transitive logic. To justify why a team that will have to win it’s conference tournament to make the field is better than their actual verified current results of 59 in the NET. 

This is a team that needed overtime to beat both ISU and Missouri State this month. They had a big advantage early in the season because of team continuity. They are having a great year for Drake, but last year with Devries as coach Drake was better! 47th in the NET.

Why don’t you give the love to Devries? He was better at Drake, is in his 40’s, and is doing fantastic in a P5 conference.

[Josh]

21 minutes ago, str8baller said:

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/basketball/2019/01/22/which-state-birthed-most-active-nba-players-per-capita-indiana/2524079002/

 

 

https://1075thefan.com/playlist/the-top-10-states-that-have-produced-the-most-nba-and-aba-players/item/1

you can quantify many ways. But they do these nba lists every so often and Indiana is always top 5. In the one linked were 5 but basically 3 if you throw out the small pop outliers like n. Dakota.  
 

 

 

Indiana puts out more basketball talent than most and that’s largely due to our great HS system. 

The link is 7, not 5?

I get we have a lot of talent in Indiana, but some years (a lot of years?) we don't.  I hate when we put more stock into an indiana kid than others.  Or when we get a superiority complex over a kid based on his zip code than anything else.  Or when we grade an IU basketball coach based on what the high school coaches say.

Just seems crazy to me

[Old Friend]

2 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

All good with the counterpoints! And  I am all for getting the next big thing.

But Cignetti is a terrible comparison. He was an FBS assistant for 24 years including under Saban at Bama, and had JMU ranked. So he was in the locker rooms of the biggest of big programs watching how they were run. McCollum has never played against a ranked team. Not as a player, grad assistant, assistant, or head coach.

There are many other next big things that have a resume of success. Why is McCollum better than Ray Harper, Crutchfield, or Greg Tonagel? The answer; he may be and he may not be.

McCollum is having a really good first year at Drake, but if he doesn’t win at UNI this week then UNI will be the #1 seed in their conference going into their conference tourney. And then Drake will need to win that tourney to make the NCAAs.

Another point I heard made about McCollum; he has a team of players that are completely ingrained whose system this year; that’s why they look so connected. And in a mid major there’s enough athletic similarities to top D2 that he can succeed, especially early. 

 

Who's your horse, and why?   Maybe we should start there.

I don't think Cignetti is a terrible example at all.  McCollum was a head guy in his early 30's.  Cignetti not until he was in his 50's.  Your point (or at least the one to which I was responding) was the size of the entity for which the head coach, whoever he is, will be responsible.  I don't think, given the environment and current set of rules, McCollum is much less qualified than anyone else and he can flat coach.  Who's to say  a few of Drake's players (they have 8 non-seniors including 3 of their top 5 scorers) don't come with him?  That'd help the connectivity just like James Madison players helped in football.  That team already beat Vanderbilt, Miami, and Kansas State, so they can play at the power 5 level.

The argument against him in my opinion is he's never recruited at a level this high, nor has he recruited or coached with or against the size.   Woodson was used to the size and is still abysmal, so there's no guarantee either way and I understand that.  I'm just far more interested in him than I am someone like Buzz Williams or Mick Cronin.

But....that's my opinion.  I think I'm more interested in Schertz than McCollum.

[Muskie plays the four]

10 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Who's your horse, and why?   Maybe we should start there.

I don't think Cignetti is a terrible example at all.  McCollum was a head guy in his early 30's.  Cignetti not until he was in his 50's.  Your point (or at least the one to which I was responding) was the size of the entity for which the head coach, whoever he is, will be responsible.  I don't think, given the environment and current set of rules, McCollum is much less qualified than anyone else and he can flat coach.  Who's to say  a few of Drake's players (they have 8 non-seniors including 3 of their top 5 scorers) don't come with him?  That'd help the connectivity just like James Madison players helped in football.  That team already beat Vanderbilt, Miami, and Kansas State, so they can play at the power 5 level.

The argument against him in my opinion is he's never recruited at a level this high, nor has he recruited or coached with or against the size.   Woodson was used to the size and is still abysmal, so there's no guarantee either way and I understand that.  I'm just far more interested in him than I am someone like Buzz Williams or Mick Cronin.

But....that's my opinion.  I think I'm more interested in Schertz than McCollum.

Shertz would be fun basketball to watch for sure 

[Old Friend]

2 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

That’s why he’s a risk. But he’s learned from the best of the best at the top of the top for 15 years. He’s a dude. And he’s a dude at Duke, not at some school that would be a five point neutral court underdog to the current IU trainwreck.

This is an argument that probably needs to stop.  His current Drake team vs the current IU team isn't up for discussion unless you think he can only recruit Valley-level players to Indiana.  He's a great basketball coach.  He could and would, like ANY coach at Indiana, recruit and land FAR better players.   With far better players and better coaching, Indiana beats Drake by 25 on most nights.  That the game would be this close (5 points or so I'm reading) is a much worse indictment of Mike Woodson than McCollum.  To me, that argument (this season's matchup between Drake and IU) is silly.  (I love that word)

Also, long term vs short term.  Long term?  Can anyone make a claim McCollum doesn't have a better than average chance to succeed at Indiana all things considered?   The dude has won BIG for his entire career regardless of talent level.  We're not going from making canned soup to making microchips for Gen 27 space suits, here.  Bigger and more athletic players ain't THAT much different.

[RoadRage]

3 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

I think Drake is a good team.  I’ve watched most their games and the whole run in the non conference where they beat Kansas st and Vandy. I’ve also seen them get taken to OT at home by Indiana St which is having a down year.    IU has lost 1 possession games to teams that are currently being projected as protected seeds  on the road and home and have beaten them on the road.   College basketball is crazy which is why it’s the greatest sport ever so anything can happen but I see no way Drake beats IU easily.  Could they win? Yeah but no way easily.   IU would probably be favored in the game 

Maybe….but the reason I said easily is we have not fared well against teams that play very good defense. Drake has the third best scoring defense in the country. But my easily comment was probably ill-advised, just getting sick of all the anti-McCollum/Cronin knob polishing…….

[Banksyrules]

……….looks at board………I’m too old for this @$%…………zzzzzzzzzzzz…..zzzzzzzzzzzz

[Stuhoo]

24 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Who's your horse, and why?   Maybe we should start there.

I don't think Cignetti is a terrible example at all.  McCollum was a head guy in his early 30's.  Cignetti not until he was in his 50's.  Your point (or at least the one to which I was responding) was the size of the entity for which the head coach, whoever he is, will be responsible.  I don't think, given the environment and current set of rules, McCollum is much less qualified than anyone else and he can flat coach.  Who's to say  a few of Drake's players (they have 8 non-seniors including 3 of their top 5 scorers) don't come with him?  That'd help the connectivity just like James Madison players helped in football.  That team already beat Vanderbilt, Miami, and Kansas State, so they can play at the power 5 level.

The argument against him in my opinion is he's never recruited at a level this high, nor has he recruited or coached with or against the size.   Woodson was used to the size and is still abysmal, so there's no guarantee either way and I understand that.  I'm just far more interested in him than I am someone like Buzz Williams or Mick Cronin.

But....that's my opinion.  I think I'm more interested in Schertz than McCollum.

I can you a quick ‘top of my head’ list of 15 that are more qualified than McCollum. And even better, I’ll leave the Stevens, Pearl, Drew, Few, etc types out- so guys that IU have a legit chance with:

Schertz, McDermott, Byington, McCasland, Buzz, Calhoun, Gates, Pitino jr, DeVries, Luke Murray, Collins, Brownell, McMillan, McDermott And the best of all… Otz! That’s 15 off the top of my head and 13 of them are 52 or under.

 

and I even left Cronin off for you

 

 

[Magnanimous]

4 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

I can you a quick ‘top of my head’ list of 15 that are more qualified than McCollum. And even better, I’ll leave the Stevens, Pearl, Drew, Few, etc types out- so guys that IU have a legit chance with:

Schertz, McDermott, Byington, McCasland, Buzz, Calhoun, Gates, Pitino jr, DeVries, Luke Murray, Collins, Brownell, Medved, McMillan, Cronin

that’s 16 off the top of my head.

And the best of all… Otz! That’s 17

 

 

 

[Stuhoo]

13 minutes ago, Magnanimous said:

 

I’m trying to think of some way in which Pitino Junior would not be a better hire than McCollum. I’m having a ton of trouble coming up with some category where McCollum would be better other than division two championships.

So help me other than division 2 championships what is a single way that McCollum would be more qualified for the Indiana head coaching job than Pitino Junior?

and FWIW, Luke Murray would be the equivalent of taking the number two person in a very large, very successful corporation, and promoting him to CEO whereas McCollum would be the equivalent of promoting a hyper successful branch manager to CEO 

 

[RoadRage]

Just now, Stuhoo said:

I’m trying to think of some way in which Pitino Junior would not be a better hire than McCollum. I’m having a ton of trouble coming up with some category where McCollum would be better other than division two championships.

So help me other than division 2 championships what is a single way that McCollum would be more qualified for the Indiana head coaching job than Pitino Junior?

What did McCollum do to you? He can only win the games he has the opportunity to play, he’s won 80% of them! Somebody has to give a winner like this a shot, we sit back and play it safe and hire Woodson and some want Cronin, and guys like McCollum to go other schools, have great success, then we want them but it is too late, they are no longer interested in us. I’m all for paying big money and hiring Stevens, Donovan, Wright, Pearl or even Drew, but most seem to be saying we are going after Brownell or Cronin. If that is the direction we go, I’d rather take a chance on McCollum or Beard!