IUBB vs Arkansas 12/29 @ 6 pm BTN

[JSHoosier]

12 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

I don’t think it even has to be a big name. A coach has to start somewhere. But Archie’s philosophies just aren’t good here. They don’t work. It’d be different if we had an efficient offense but it’s awful. We just need a coach that can run good offenses. Pretty much all of the great coaches were good with offenses. Defense just comes from hustle and communication. We aren’t going anywhere with Archie and there’s no excitement. I’ve been to about 20 Hoosier Hysteria’s in my life, this years was the most boring one ever and its kept getting worse. There’s no excitement anymore. It’s just hoping.


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Hustle and communication are crucial for defense, but you absolutely need more than just those 2 things.

[JSHoosier]

2 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

If defense is just hustle and communication, what are you communicating if there are no principals to defense? Saying that is just ludicrous. Yes you need those, but you are working towards a common purpose of principals to stop an opponent. Is what we are doing working defensively? I think so EXCEPT when we get lazy offensively. Players are not getting back. They are not communicating. We spend too much time trying to force a ball handler off of a straight line we in turn are out of position. I am cool with the pack line concepts, but we are over aggressive without any chance of getting any turnovers. I think I am more disappointed in our defense than I am our offense right now. And our offense is not good. It’s TJD or bust right now and we aren’t actively looking for him.


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Ugh, the number of times we've over helped and left a perimeter shooter wide open.

[Josh]

You did this with USPS and now with Chris007 - you're assuming you know the facts while credible individuals are disputing your 'facts'. Nothing is ever as clear to us outsiders, so I don't know how you can assume you know this to be true.

A little digging (explainations above) also provide a pretty clear and plausible explanation for Gelon. As for LOI's, who knows, but it's a pretty tough look if the kids wanted to remain committed to pull the rug out from under them in the late spring when Archie came on.

If we could do it to Gelon, why couldn't we do it to others?  Sorry, the story is fishy, meant to be used as an excuse.  The facts just don't agree with it.

Regardless, I'm glad we didn't get hit with apr violations.  It would have sucked to miss the tournament the last couple years!

 

[JSHoosier]

3 minutes ago, Josh said:

If we could do it to Gelon, why couldn't we do it to others?  Sorry, the story is fishy, meant to be used as an excuse.  The facts just don't agree with it.

Regardless, I'm glad we didn't get hit with apr violations.  It would have sucked to miss the tournament the last couple years!

Gelon was in good academic standing so there was no impact on APR.  If he wanted to do that with players not in good academic standing it would've had a negative impact on APR.  In hindsight, maybe Miller should've had more flexibility to use his discretion but I can also understand Glass being concerned about APR (and I'm about as far from a Glass fan as it gets).

[rcbowla]

Maybe? We'll see what team shows up in 2020. FSU, UConn, and ND weren't mirages. Last night wasn't either.

I think Devonte going nuts for 30 would count as a mirage

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[mdn82]

I think Devonte going nuts for 30 would count as a mirage

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To be fair I would agree with that. The dude has talent. Anyone can see that. If he could just harness it for a few months we could be so much better. Playing like this we will be lucky to get in the 8/9 game.


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[Hoosier Guy]

15 minutes ago, rcs29 said:

I think Devonte going nuts for 30 would count as a mirage

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I would definitely agree with that. He just isn’t consistent

[IUc2016]

Gelon was in good academic standing so there was no impact on APR.  If he wanted to do that with players not in good academic standing it would've had a negative impact on APR.  In hindsight, maybe Miller should've had more flexibility to use his discretion but I can also understand Glass being concerned about APR (and I'm about as far from a Glass fan as it gets).

Bingo. There are the facts.

Not every player could have been let go because they didn’t have the grades and it would hurt the already fragile APR.


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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

Maybe? We'll see what team shows up in 2020. FSU, UConn, and ND weren't mirages. Last night wasn't either.

That’s misleading. Because we played like crap against UConn and ND and both teams would finish 10th or worse in the B1G. We’ve had 1 good game this season.


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[Josh]

1 hour ago, JSHoosier said:

Gelon was in good academic standing so there was no impact on APR.  If he wanted to do that with players not in good academic standing it would've had a negative impact on APR.  In hindsight, maybe Miller should've had more flexibility to use his discretion but I can also understand Glass being concerned about APR (and I'm about as far from a Glass fan as it gets).

So in fact, he could have let a lot of players go if they were in good academic standing?  Strange...

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

If defense is just hustle and communication, what are you communicating if there are no principals to defense? Saying that is just ludicrous. Yes you need those, but you are working towards a common purpose of principals to stop an opponent. Is what we are doing working defensively? I think so EXCEPT when we get lazy offensively. Players are not getting back. They are not communicating. We spend too much time trying to force a ball handler off of a straight line we in turn are out of position. I am cool with the pack line concepts, but we are over aggressive without any chance of getting any turnovers. I think I am more disappointed in our defense than I am our offense right now. And our offense is not good. It’s TJD or bust right now and we aren’t actively looking for him. But Archie’s offense is incredibly easy to defend because it’s based around the pick and roll, and lazy ones at that. And Archie somehow hasn’t been able to develop anyone with like Green, Durham or Smith with 3 summers.


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The principles of defense are taught in elementary school. But you have to put in effort/hustle and communication to make it work. Those are the two things make it all come together. But even without all of those details, you can get away with quite a bit by just trying hard. But offense is more complex. You don’t need shooters, passers, screeners, rollers, cutters, post ups, backcuts etc.


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[WayneFleekHoosier]

So it appears Archie is a lot like Sean but with lesser recruiting acumen. Neither coach is known for X/Os. Known for intensity. We have a handcuffed Sean Miller as our coach I believe.

I would be thrilled if Indiana had the results that Sean has had at Arizona. Yes, I realize Sean and staff were cheating their pants off.

I’m convinced Archie would too if he could get around compliance.

The recruiting problems again is my biggest concern with IUBB.

Next years class is interesting. I don’t hate it. I like it in some regard, if I thought Archie could out coach his adversaries.

All of our 5 star guys have been studs though. (Except Romeo??). We need to stack 3 or 4 of these guys on one roster. Then watch Archie coach. He’d miraculously be a great coach.

Idk. I’m frustrated, and I even expected what we are seeing so far.




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[Josh]

I need to say one more thing, I'm sorry for posting so much about this.  I apologize to @Chris007 if I came across as rude.  I believe you heard this story from a reliable source and you bring great info to the board.  I'm not trying to insult you.  Heck, I could even believe that Glass told this to Archie.

It's just that the whole story doesn't make sense.  He could have had transfers.  He also actively recruited our recruits to stay when it wouldn't have been an apr hit if he let one loose to get McKinley.  Hearing that he was stuck with the roster by Glass is troubling when he truly wasn't.

[MoyeNeeded]

So many points to ponder going both directions. I will still say though that most all on here thought prior to the season if we were 10-2 heading into Jan most would have been extremely happy. But now here we are talking how bad this team is, how bad player development is, how horrible this hire was etc etc. There is no satisfying this fanbase.

[Hoosierfan2017]

2 minutes ago, MoyeNeeded said:

So many points to ponder going both directions. I will still say though that most all on here thought prior to the season if we were 10-2 heading into Jan most would have been extremely happy. But now here we are talking how bad this team is, how bad player development is, how horrible this hire was etc etc. There is no satisfying this fanbase.

What is there to be satisfied about at this point in the season, though? We're 11-1, but 7 of the 11 wins were against bad teams. Of the 6 games against respectable teams we've looked good in 1 of them. Nebraska is 6-7 and we beat them by 6 in overtime at home. Wisconsin is 7-5 and they beat us by 20, thoroughly embarrassing us. Sure, the record looks great right now, but I see little to be satisfied about with the way the team has played for the majority of the season. 

[Hoosierfan2017]

5 hours ago, Chris007 said:

I would argue that as a recruit I wouldn't want to come to a town where the fan base acts like idiots after every loss, calling out players or coaches. Or going on social media to trash a recruit who picks a different school. Or going to a school, that is going to fire the coach after 3 years if he isn't winning enough for the fans. 

Blaming the fan base is just a way to shift the blame away from the people in charge. The fan base isn't why IU doesn't land top recruits. All of the top programs have crazy fan bases. It doesn't stop them from landing 5 stars like crazy.

IU fans shouldn't be bashed for having expectations. If Archie misses the tournament it'll be three straight misses. What blue blood program would keep a coach who missed the tournament in his first 3 seasons? We either start acting like a blue blood again or we accept we're going to be mediocre forever. If Archie misses the tournament again this season he deserves to be on the hot seat going into year 4. Look at where other coaches who took over programs around the same time as Archie have their programs.  

[JSHoosier]

28 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

What is there to be satisfied about at this point in the season, though? We're 11-1, but 7 of the 11 wins were against bad teams. Of the 6 games against respectable teams we've looked good in 1 of them. Nebraska is 6-7 and we beat them by 6 in overtime at home. Wisconsin is 7-5 and they beat us by 20, thoroughly embarrassing us. Sure, the record looks great right now, but I see little to be satisfied about with the way the team has played for the majority of the season. 

And blew an 11 point lead against Arkansas at home.

It's not the record, it's how we've looked and the same problems still biting us in the rear with no help on the horizon.

[MikeRoberts]

This couldn't be more wrong. This fanbase truly believes the only way for us to get back to greatness is the inside out approach. Lack of in-state recruiting was probably the top factor for Crean losing the fans outside of the inconsistency.

Not true at all. WIN.

 

That’s all the fans want. When Crean has great players in his own backyard that he wasn’t recruiting or were going elsewhere and we were forced to go East AND we weren’t winning is where he lost the fans

 

 

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[Brass Cannon]

20 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Blaming the fan base is just a way to shift the blame away from the people in charge. The fan base isn't why IU doesn't land top recruits. All of the top programs have crazy fan bases. It doesn't stop them from landing 5 stars like crazy.

IU fans shouldn't be bashed for having expectations. If Archie misses the tournament it'll be three straight misses. What blue blood program would keep a coach who missed the tournament in his first 3 seasons? We either start acting like a blue blood again or we accept we're going to be mediocre forever. If Archie misses the tournament again this season he deserves to be on the hot seat going into year 4. Look at where other coaches who took over programs around the same time as Archie have their programs.  

Dayton, OSU, Butler, Louisville hell even Arkansas all look better off by a good margin and I barely headed east or West of Bloomington. 

[hoohoome2]

48 minutes ago, MoyeNeeded said:

So many points to ponder going both directions. I will still say though that most all on here thought prior to the season if we were 10-2 heading into Jan most would have been extremely happy. But now here we are talking how bad this team is, how bad player development is, how horrible this hire was etc etc. There is no satisfying this fanbase.

You’re satisfied with this dog $hit??