Evan Fitzner to IU

[ray]

1 hour ago, cthomas said:

Obviously CAM saw some value in EF or he wouldn't be here. I am willing to wait and see what role coach Miller utilizes him for before judging his worth.

I am willing to as well. I only jumped into this topic because some people were suggesting Davis has no useful skills for the way a game of basketball is played today. I disagree completely. Davis' biggest weakness has been injuries and lack of conditioning. He can only play in spurts. He could be a major impact in short stints, as I witnessed against Duke (no one could stop him while he was on the court). I never said Davis is the nation's best recruit, but he certainly isn't lacking practical basketball skills, as it seemed to be suggested by another. I am of the opinion that another healthy big was more important, and I don't see this transfer being the answer for that role. I could be wrong. Hopefully he or Race or another newcomer fills that role this year.  I don't foresee shooting being the weakness it was last season with or without Evan. Foul trouble to our post players, or god-forbid an injury to Juwan while Davis is still in recovery, would make our inside presence a glaring weakness. Unless I am wrong about the role some of the new additions play and the impact they might have...which I am sure I am wrong about something.

 

I wasn't throwing Evan under the bus, just as I hadn't thrown any other players under the bus. I was standing up for an Indiana Hoosier (Davis) who I believe is unjustly being called out as not significant. I watched the Duke game. If he recovers fully, I am of the belief he will have other moments in other games where his "out dated" skillset will completely trouble opposing teams.

[ray]

29 minutes ago, ap2345 said:

Okay let me rephrase. Fitzner is from a basketball skill stand point from passing, shooting 3's and 15 footers, handling the ball and scoring at the rim much better because he can do more things and score in a variety of different ways. That to me means more skilled. Davis has more post moves but can't do anything else and is an awful FT shooter so yes he is way more skilled imo. I hadn't forgotten that Davis was ranked #1 as a freshman but that was because he was big. Now he is an old school throwback post player that is limited. I like him but he isn't that great especially for the BIG 10 because his struggles on defense hurt us and he's not a shot blocker.

Thanks for clarifying. I can see your position and outlook.

I like Davis' throwback style because it isn't played much anymore and few are very capable of stopping a back to the basket big with good footwork. 

As for the free throws, the entire team needs to be SIGNIFICANTLY improved. I still can't comprehend how players make it to college (especially Division 1) with an inability to score a freethrow at a decent rate.

I still disagree Davis is less skilled, but I also have VERY little of Evan to compare him to...so, I don't know jack. I just have the sense he will spend more time outside, which could open lanes and benefit the team in profound ways if utilized correctly. But, still, I am worried about the inside presence...Morgan and Davis have been riddled with injuries. Outside of freshman, we have no other bigs. I would have preferred a "true big" transfer, but I realize it may not be possible or even necessary. Fingers crossed Juwan Morgan has the beastly season I predict and stays healthy.

[AZ Hoosier]

30 minutes ago, ray said:

I wasn't throwing Evan under the bus, just as I hadn't thrown any other players under the bus. I was standing up for an Indiana Hoosier (Davis) who I believe is unjustly being called out as not significant. I watched the Duke game. If he recovers fully, I am of the belief he will have other moments in other games where his "out dated" skillset will completely trouble opposing teams.

It is very likely that De'Ron Davis will be somewhat insignificant this year, given his injury and the recovery. "IF HE RECOVERS FULLY" is a big 'IF'. I hope it does, but with serious talk of a redshirt season, Archie did what he needed to do to fill the position for the coming season.

[BGleas]

There is absolutely no reason Fitzner can’t contribute very similar to what Max contributed his year. Fitzner comes more proven than Max with better numbers in his career. 

I don’t see anyone saying Fitzner will be a star or even a starter, but a very important piece of the team, just like Max was. No reason he can’t play 17-20 minutes and average close to 8 and 4. 

[schoosier]

2 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

People are discussing the possibility. Because once again its less crazy than Mcroberts starting. 

I don’t see McBob starting but I do as 6th man. Hunter Is too good not to start. Evan can sub for either Juwan or Smith or start if we go big. This isn’t counting these other frosh who will work hard to play. Lots of options compared to last year for sure.

[RaceToTheTop]

If we could get 16 points and 10 rebounds out of whatever combination were to play at the 5, do we really matter which combination it comes from?

Fitzner will likely do his part to get to the group get to the total.  I couldn't care less if we had one 11 and 7 and a 5 and 3 or four players each getting 4 points and 2 1/2 rebounds playing the 5.

[Myrmidon76]

 

Zone offense is pretty good. Not the most explosive to the rim. Possesses a Hulls like release. Rebounds fundamentally well...clears the ball intelligently. I see a contributor as he was with St.Marys...not a superstar, but certainly someone who can contribute at a position with a lot of unknowns next season. 

[biteoftheapple]

Whats good about these rebounding numbers?

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/cbk/players.asp?id=126988

[Hoosierfan2017]

He's not being brought in to be a back to the basket guy. He's going to space the floor and give our guards room to operate. The only thing him and Davis have in common is that they're 6'10 and play for IU. 

[Blackmon_for_3]

One thing I really like about him is the fact that he follows his shot. He’s not flashy he just plays basketball. 

[schoosier]

44 minutes ago, Myrmidon76 said:

 

Zone offense is pretty good. Not the most explosive to the rim. Possesses a Hulls like release. Rebounds fundamentally well...clears the ball intelligently. I see a contributor as he was with St.Marys...not a superstar, but certainly someone who can contribute at a position with a lot of unknowns next season. 

He can shoot and is the biggest reason he’s here. Never saw a shot fake at the basket and he will get pummeled in the Big if he doesn’t learn quick. Decent passer and adds a good GPA to help our %. I don’t see him starting after seeing these highlights.

Edited May 5, 2018 by schoosier

[Crimson and Cream]

5 hours ago, BGleas said:

I have seen very few people, if any, say he's going to start. A lot of us are saying he's going to play ahead of Davis, yes, but for most us this is coming from a group that wouldn't have Davis in our starting lineup anyways. We think he'll be the backup 5 ahead of Davis. 

I expect Fitzner to play somewhere around 15-20mpg, probably netting out around 18. I expect him to play a very similar role to Max Beilfeldt the year he was here, and despite what many think Fitzner actually comes to IU way more proven than Bielfeldt was. Max took about 60 3's his first three years at Michigan shooting about 28%. Fitzner has taken over 300 in his three years at St. Mary's making over 40%. 

Max was on a team that played in big games, but he didn't play much at all. As a freshmen at St. Mary's Fitzner started, averaging 23.5mpg, 8.7ppg on 46.8% from the field and 41% from 3, to go along with 4.4rpg. From what I've gathered the main reason his role reduced is because St. Mary's switched systems and he had an upperclassmen big ahead of him. 

Was going to make the Beilfeldt comparison myself, thank you for doing it for me. This kid has played on several good St. Mary's teams, been stuck on the bench behind some very good bigs. I don't think anyone's expecting huge numbers, but if he can just come in and stretch the floor, grab some boards, and provide this team with leadership that would be worth the scholly.

[Myrmidon76]

45 minutes ago, biteoftheapple said:

Whats good about these rebounding numbers?

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/cbk/players.asp?id=126988

Numbers aren't there. My comment was more along the lines of technique. 

[Hoosierfan2017]

Archie had Freddie playing like a serviceable rotational big towards the end of last season. I trust his player development. We're not dealing with Crean anymore boys. 

[Napleshoosier]

Can he shoot free throws? If so, he’s hired!


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[Hollywood Mike Miranda]

11 hours ago, AZ Hoosier said:

It is very likely that De'Ron Davis will be somewhat insignificant this year, given his injury and the recovery. "IF HE RECOVERS FULLY" is a big 'IF'. I hope it does, but with serious talk of a redshirt season, Archie did what he needed to do to fill the position for the coming season.

Had something been reported regarding the redshirt for Davis or is this just an  "opinion as fact" post?

[biteoftheapple]

Its an opinion as fact....but based on the injury.

 

 

[yogisballin]

A few thoughts on the addition of Fitzer... all of which are simply my opinion...
"He’s looking for an opportunity to showcase what he does. Obviously not just as an individual, but he’s a very team oriented guy.”  -Fitzner's dad
"He wants to go out and have an even playing field so that he can go out and earn his spot on the team.”  - Fitzner's dad
"He wants to get back to the NCAA tournament" -Fitzner's dad
"We wanted him back... He will enhance their program" - St. Mary's Coach Randy Bennett
I really like all of the above quotes and I think they pretty much explain what kind of player we're getting. I'll admit, the 5 PPG kinda puzzled me first as to why Archie would pursue him, but then you read these quotes and you start to understand. Notice there wasn't as much focus on "wants to become a more focal part of the offense" or "wants more playing time". Instead, you see him talking about the TEAM. About how he wants to work hard and EARN his spot. He talks about wanting to WIN and making the tournament. His old coach (who is pretty successful in his own right... look up his record) didn't want him to leave and believes he'll "enhance" our program. Those are promising sentiments you don't hear too often from transfers.
Will he have a higher statistical impact than what he had at St. Mary's? I would doubt it. (I'm not even sure he'll match it.) Do we need him to produce more than that? Not really. What we could use is senior leadership to help bring along the five freshmen and three sophomores. What we could use is a guy who can knock down an open shot and be an offensive threat when on the floor. Check and check. If this team reaches its potential, it will have to have good team chemistry. While the talent on the roster has been upgraded in the off-season, we're still not talented enough to "out-talent" most other teams. They'll need to play well together. It sounds like Fitzner can help with that.
Am I worried that this may mean Morgan is leaving? No. I think there's a better chance of another transfer before Morgan would leave.
Am I worried that Fitzer is Priller 2.0? No. By all accounts, Priller was a good guy. But his on-court effectiveness made Richard Mandeville and Robbie Eggers look like All-Americans. Could Fitzer be Eggers 2.0? Possibly, but remember that Robbie Eggers never missed the NCAA Tournament.
If Fitzer isn't effective, it isn't much of a loss. He only occupies the scholarship for one season. There are only two ways that this was a bad addition. #1) Fitzer is a detriment to team chemistry (seems unlikely) or #2) there was a more effective graduate transfer out there that specifically wanted to fill this role.

Oh my goodness! I remember my dad going crazy (and not in a good way) when Mandeville and Eggers were in the game. I honest to goodness forgot all about Robbie Eggers lol. I know this is off topic but if I remember correctly, wasn’t Mandeville pretty highly sought after?


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[MikeRoberts]

I just don't see how Davis fits into too many systems in 2018. The game is changing. You need five guys on the court that are skilled, athletic players that can space the floor and attack the rim. Gone are the days, for the most part, where you ride a slow, plodding, below the rim center and slow the game down to pound it inside. That's just not how basketball is played anymore. Defensively bigs in 2018 need to be able to switch onto guards, defend the pick and pop, hedge/recover, etc. That requires a certain level of athleticism. 
I hate to be negative on Davis. He seems like a great kid and a kid that values playing for IU, but the game has passed his body type by. Maybe he could work in a system like Syracuse where they play zone and it would be more difficult to expose him on defense? 

Purdue and others have done well with guys like Davis. The game is whatever a coach and team want to play, it’s not like there is a one sized fits all that everyone has to mold into.

I agree he doesn’t fit well in Archie’s system but put him on Purdue or Northwestern etc and he becomes a problem for a team like IU


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[CSP]

2 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

Purdue and others have done well with guys like Davis. The game is whatever a coach and team want to play, it’s not like there is a one sized fits all that everyone has to mold into.

I agree he doesn’t fit well in Archie’s system but put him on Purdue or Northwestern etc and he becomes a problem for a team like IU


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He still have to guard someone. Scheme wise that's irrelevant from the offensive end to the defensive. He can't guard Morgan.. he'd struggle with Smith. Fitzner would stretch him out too much