College Bball Thread

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

5 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Where do you put programs like San Fran and Florida?

That'd be quite the interesting category. Like almost blips in history. Villanova also interesting. They have 3 titles but probably more in the category with MSU, Louisville, Cause and them. Not quite Duke and UConn. Though Wright was on track to join that I think.

[Tasmanian Devil]

20 minutes ago, Dave from Dayton said:

My wife and I graduated the year IU went undefeated.  I would not trade that for...well, what's the offer?

That offer BETTER be really good. I’m not sure one exists.

[Tasmanian Devil]

1 minute ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

That'd be quite the interesting category. Like almost blips in history. Villanova also interesting. They have 3 titles but probably more in the category with MSU, Louisville, Cause and them. Not quite Duke and UConn. Though Wright was on track to join that I think.

Everyone has opinions. 
 

For me,  Duke has to be included in discussions of who is a Blue Blood. Besides their 5 titles, they’ve been runners up 6 times and in the Final Four 17 times. They’ve had sustained success over decades. 
 

And they have a great fanbase. Kids sleeping in tents to get best seats to games. Love em or Hate em, if we’re being honest we have to include them in any lists of Blue Bloods.

[DChoosier]

45 minutes ago, Dave from Dayton said:

My wife and I graduated the year IU went undefeated.  I would not trade that for...well, what's the offer?

I was a freshman at IU during the undefeated season and in grad school for the ‘81 natty.  ie….spoiled (that being said, being in my 30’s rather than my 60’s wouldn’t be too shabby..LOL)

I watched the ‘87 natty with a bunch of guys including a UCONN grad. He jokingly referred to UCONN as the “fighting insurance men” and neither of us could have seen the dramatic change of roles in the future. Not in my wildest dreams did I think ‘87 would be our last championship or that UCONN would be playing for their 5th since ‘99. A bit shocking.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

26 minutes ago, Tasmanian Devil said:

Everyone has opinions. 
 

For me,  Duke has to be included in discussions of who is a Blue Blood. Besides their 5 titles, they’ve been runners up 6 times and in the Final Four 17 times. They’ve had sustained success over decades. 
 

And they have a great fanbase. Kids sleeping in tents to get best seats to games. Love em or Hate em, if we’re being honest we have to include them in any lists of Blue Bloods.

I get why people include. I just don't. And it's not that they aren't on that level historically, it's just a difference in the history itself. Where Indiana, Kentucky, Kansas, UNC and UCLA were pioneers and trailblazers of college basketball, Duke without any doubt has a much different history and not that of a Blue Blood. And honestly, UCLA could even have their own category. Indiana has the historical success that makes them a Blue Blood and even fun tidbits that improved the game like being the first program ever to use glass backboards.

[lillurk]

54 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Where do you put programs like San Fran and Florida?

 

49 minutes ago, rcs29 said:

Villanova and Georgetown are also interesting as far as where they belong

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk
 

In my mind there are some programs that fit into a “you can win a title here but probably need something special.” SF, Georgetown, Villanova’s titles came with truly amazing talent OR arguably the best coach of his era.

Florida’s probably in that group, but in the way LOTS of power 5 programs are.

[Tasmanian Devil]

23 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

I get why people include. I just don't. And it's not that they aren't on that level historically, it's just a difference in the history itself. Where Indiana, Kentucky, Kansas, UNC and UCLA were pioneers and trailblazers of college basketball, Duke without any doubt has a much different history and not that of a Blue Blood. And honestly, UCLA could even have their own category. Indiana has the historical success that makes them a Blue Blood and even fun tidbits that improved the game like being the first program ever to use glass backboards.

IMHO (by that criteria) you can’t include UCLA. 
 

Wooden took over in 1948 and didn’t go to his 1st Final Four until two years after Duke. Yeah, they won a number of championships -  primarily after Sam Gilbert became involved with the program.

The others I completely understand your thinking.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

Just now, Tasmanian Devil said:

IMHO (by that criteria) you can’t include UCLA. 
 

Wooden took over in 1948 and didn’t go to his 1st Final Four until two years after Duke. Yeah, they won a number of championships -  primarily after Sam Gilbert became involved with the program.

The others I completely understand your thinking.

That's why I said UCLA could even have their own category. It isn't necessarily a tiered system. Just category within the tiers.

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, Tasmanian Devil said:

Don’t forget 63, 64 & 66 Final Four teams under Vic Bubas.

Wasn't there a guy back on the old rivals that did some research about Duke. It was like in the 60's and 70's that Duke finished in top 10 of the AP more than any team

[Demo]

Maryland is hiring Va Tech Asst and lead recruiter Mike Jones. Was the HC at DeMatha before Va Tech. As inside as inside gets in the DMV.

[Hovadipo]

19 minutes ago, Demo said:

Maryland is hiring Va Tech Asst and lead recruiter Mike Jones. Was the HC at DeMatha before Va Tech. As inside as inside gets in the DMV.

No thanks!

[WayneFleekHoosier]

24 minutes ago, Demo said:

Maryland is hiring Va Tech Asst and lead recruiter Mike Jones. Was the HC at DeMatha before Va Tech. As inside as inside gets in the DMV.

Wonder what Kenya will offer to recruiting going forward. I mean, he’s been around for a while and has experience but I think the DMV is dead to us.  
 

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

25 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Wasn't there a guy back on the old rivals that did some research about Duke. It was like in the 60's and 70's that Duke finished in top 10 of the AP more than any team

From 1960 to 1979, Duke was ranked 132 times in the AP Poll. Others like UK, UNC or UCLA might be close to those numbers during that span, but Duke had been a quality program way before Coach K came along.

[str8baller]

15 hours ago, cthomas said:

I completely understand where you are coming from. Perspective is always Interesting to me because it varies so much with age. I've seen four of the five although I was only about six when I saw the first one. Yes, I am THAT old. I, of course, wouldn't trade any of those for someone else's achievements. Mostly because they are part of my personal history. It was a different time, not necessarily better, but different. I truly hope that the younger people in our fanbase get to experience some of the things I have. CMW is trying to give all of us that experience once again.

I’ve been thinking about this and @AKHoosier’s response. And given your experience maybe you can back me up here, but what I don’t think the average younger IU basketball fan understands is how much of at-the-apex of college basketball world IU and Coach Knight were from about the ‘87 championship to about his last great teams in the mid 90’s.   
 

After ‘87 IU had just won its 5th title and Knight his 3rd. Only UCLA had more but they were in a post-Wooden malaise and UK could claim 5 but were scandal-ridden and relegated to hiring an upcoming, fresh faced Yankee as coach. Knight had his 3rd and historically only Rupp and Wooden could be said to be equals or better. No contemporaries could.  He had cemented himself as one of the best, if not the best, basketball minds the game ever saw.  
 

For reference, the early 90’s would see historically relevant but success-starved programs like Duke and Kansas start down their paths to success, and K kick off his collection of titles. UNC in much the same boat would see their much-adored coach Smith get his 2nd title and some long wanted validation as an all-time great although both the coach’s and institution’s accomplishments still paled in comparison to IU and Knight. By the end of the decade Pitino would put UK back past us and even UCLA would rise from the abyss for a hot second to grab another title.   
 

But for a stretch there Indiana basketball could make a legitimate claim to the best program with the best coach in the country.   I think that is unimaginable for younger fans. 
 

As we get ready to watch Uconn possibly join the 5 club, it is wild that the Indiana fan base has been reduced to playing some kind of historical gate-keepers about who gets to be “Basketball royalty.” In a sad way, it is about all we have left to contribute to those discussions. The last 25 years have been brutal to us. Just brutal. Even the much-maligned UCLA have had semi-frequent trips to the Final Four.  
 

So win or lose by Uconn tonight, I think most rational by-standers would rather be in Uconn’s position going forward than ours. 

[AKHoosier]

6 hours ago, Scotty R said:

The thing about UCONN is that until I was in my mid 20's they were an after thought and was not a good program at all.

And that's IU now. We're an afterthought to people in their mid 20s today, at least on a national stage. People know we've got a history, like they know Notre Dame has a history, but we haven't been a good program during those people's lifetime.

Everything is cyclical. It's the only thing that gives me hope we'll return to the level we all know we can be before I'm old and gray.

[cthomas]

49 minutes ago, str8baller said:

I’ve been thinking about this and @AKHoosier’s response. And given your experience maybe you can back me up here, but what I don’t think the average younger IU basketball fan understands is how much of at-the-apex of college basketball world IU and Coach Knight were from about the ‘87 championship to about his last great teams in the mid 90’s.   
 

After ‘87 IU had just won its 5th title and Knight his 3rd. Only UCLA had more but they were in a post-Wooden malaise and UK could claim 5 but were scandal-ridden and relegated to hiring an upcoming, fresh faced Yankee as coach. Knight had his 3rd and historically only Rupp and Wooden could be said to be equals or better. No contemporaries could.  He had cemented himself as one of the best, if not the best, basketball minds the game ever saw.  
 

For reference, the early 90’s would see historically relevant but success-starved programs like Duke and Kansas start down their paths to success, and K kick off his collection of titles. UNC in much the same boat would see their much-adored coach Smith get his 2nd title and some long wanted validation as an all-time great although both the coach’s and institution’s accomplishments still paled in comparison to IU and Knight. By the end of the decade Pitino would put UK back past us and even UCLA would rise from the abyss for a hot second to grab another title.   
 

But for a stretch there Indiana basketball could make a legitimate claim to the best program with the best coach in the country.   I think that is unimaginable for younger fans. 
 

As we get ready to watch Uconn possibly join the 5 club, it is wild that the Indiana fan base has been reduced to playing some kind of historical gate-keepers about who gets to be “Basketball royalty.” In a sad way, it is about all we have left to contribute to those discussions. The last 25 years have been brutal to us. Just brutal. Even the much-maligned UCLA have had semi-frequent trips to the Final Four.  
 

So win or lose by Uconn tonight, I think most rational by-standers would rather be in Uconn’s position going forward than ours. 

Can't really argue with any of points you make. I blame the administration's hatred for CBK for what has happened to IU basketball. I remember when the governor of Indiana was a regular at IU games.

[RaceToTheTop]

17 minutes ago, Hardwood83 said:

You are correct and to complicate it further, the landscape is changing, so the old paradigm may not fit as well. I wouldn't put too much stock in a single tourney, but FAU & SDSU just made their first Final Four. If it hadn't been SDSU it would have been Creighton, also their first FF. Baylor came out of nowhere a few years ago....lots of moving pieces. IU has some real advantages (they've squandered for 20yrs), but the rules are changing. 

Don't forget that San Diego State was likely going to be a 2 seed back in 2020 when covid hit.

[FortWayneHoosier]

41 minutes ago, Hardwood83 said:

You are correct and to complicate it further, the landscape is changing, so the old paradigm may not fit as well. I wouldn't put too much stock in a single tourney, but FAU & SDSU just made their first Final Four. If it hadn't been SDSU it would have been Creighton, also their first FF. Baylor came out of nowhere a few years ago....lots of moving pieces. IU has some real advantages (they've squandered for 20yrs), but the rules are changing. 

And that is what scares me. We have all the right tools but just can’t seem to get far. The last time I really truly believed we had a final four team was when we lost to Syracuse in the sweet 16, that was a decade ago. Whether our fan base likes it or not we haven’t amounted to really anything since we  lost to Maryland TWENTY years ago. We have so much potential but just come up short. 

[Tasmanian Devil]

47 minutes ago, FortWayneHoosier said:

And that is what scares me. We have all the right tools but just can’t seem to get far. The last time I really truly believed we had a final four team was when we lost to Syracuse in the sweet 16, that was a decade ago. Whether our fan base likes it or not we haven’t amounted to really anything since we  lost to Maryland TWENTY years ago. We have so much potential but just come up short. 

Up until Woody, look how the program has been ran the last 20 years. We’ve had some truly inept people in IU Administration/BOT over that period of time.

[Dave from Dayton]

All Indiana has to do is move to the southeast coast, or San Diego.  That and promise the starting positions to transfers.  Oh, and possibly $2 million per year for NILs, well in todays $$$$.  Oh, and we need some flexibility on those education and classroom and grades issues.  And we have to really provide assists, on court, to the stars.  We can get you to the next level, furshure.

And if the LEO (Law Enforcement Officers) drop by, the administration must know nothing...nothing.  

A job for dear old Dad would be nice.  That house on the lake...yeah.

Hot wheels and cute drivers...wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

Discipline...fagetaboutit.  

Semi-Pro???  Play like your hair is on fire!  And just shoot it.