Transfer Portal w IU Interest

[HoosierHoopster]

9 hours ago, Feathery said:

His offense also got a lot of open shots that players missed or passed up on bc they aren’t good shooters in game situations. A lot of people point to the Kenpom off efficiency being around 100 as poor offense. But a lot of it comes down to poor guard play. We beat the mid majors on the schedule by a larger margin, the. IU’s offense is around 50 with the same win loss record. 

This is where we disagree. It’s offensive scheme — players are not simply passing up open looks. In an offense that shoots from outside literally by numbers (not percentages) at the bottom of DI ball, that’s the scheme, it reflects the offensive system not the individual players.

Woodson deemphasizes outside shooting to a fault. That is what needs to change. If it does it will be because he changed the offense, not because some shots are taken that were not before because some shots were passed up.

[Stuhoo]

4 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

This is where we disagree. It’s offensive scheme — players are not simply passing up open looks. In an offense that shoots from outside literally by numbers (not percentages) at the bottom of DI ball, that’s the scheme, it reflects the offensive system not the individual players.

Woodson deemphasizes outside shooting to a fault. That is what needs to change. If it does it will be because he changed the offense, not because some shots are taken that were not before because some shots were passed up.

I saw so many players routinely pass up a makable three to step in and end up with a guarded 15 foot jumper.

That has to stop. Either launch the three, or try to get all the way to the rim. If that doesn’t happen? Reset the offense. And more movement during those actions. And no more floppys or zooms where the guard or wing gets the ball 20 feet from the basket. Want to run a floppy/down screen? Do it to open up for a three.

[Trish]

22 minutes ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

1-year's worth of data.  Would be more meaningful if Tony (or anyone) did a few more years to determine if this data correlates well with prior years or was last year simply an aberration.  But regardless, it's an interesting analysis.

Problem is, the Indiana coaching staff doesn’t believe in the 3PT shot.

[AH1971]

2 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

This is where we disagree. It’s offensive scheme — players are not simply passing up open looks. In an offense that shoots from outside literally by numbers (not percentages) at the bottom of DI ball, that’s the scheme, it reflects the offensive system not the individual players.

Woodson deemphasizes outside shooting to a fault. That is what needs to change. If it does it will be because he changed the offense, not because some shots are taken that were not before because some shots were passed up.

If outside shooting is still de-emphasized after landing guys like Rice and Carlyle and then potentially someone like Hickman, most people will get their wish and Woodson  will be gone after the year. When guys like Leal, Cupps, and Galloway commandeer you’re backcourt for a majority of minutes, I know shooting 23-25 3P wouldn’t be my game plan.

[CSP]

4 minutes ago, Trish said:

Problem is, the Indiana coaching staff doesn’t believe in the 3PT shot.

153 pages into this thing. Cmon man 

[CSP]

2 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

If outside shooting is still de-emphasized after landing guys like Rice and Carlyle and then potentially someone like Hickman, most people will get their wish and Woodson  will be gone after the year. When guys like Leal, Cupps, and Galloway commandeer you’re backcourt for a majority of minutes, I know shooting 23-25 3P wouldn’t be my game plan.

Frigging great post. It sucks, but the actual best route to "consistently being in a game last year" was just hammer down in the post, there was no variation possible because of the lack of talent and cohesion on the perimeter. 

Insert a couple of these cats and we can play multiple ways. 

[IUFAN1976]

16 hours ago, Home Jersey said:

Beans and rice for dinner again..

You must run your wife and kids out of the house as much as you eat beans & rice.  They must call you stinky/smelly, lol

[AH1971]

3 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Frigging great post. It sucks, but the actual best route to "consistently being in a game last year" was just hammer down in the post, there was no variation possible because of the lack of talent and cohesion on the perimeter. 

Insert a couple of these cats and we can play multiple ways. 

Crazy to think that just over 12 hours ago I was called a troll in the other thread for suggesting that having a more dynamic backcourt could lead to a more dynamic offense.

What a time to be alive.

[HoosierHoopster]

11 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

If outside shooting is still de-emphasized after landing guys like Rice and Carlyle and then potentially someone like Hickman, most people will get their wish and Woodson  will be gone after the year. When guys like Leal, Cupps, and Galloway commandeer you’re backcourt for a majority of minutes, I know shooting 23-25 3P wouldn’t be my game plan.

You are just looking at this past season. All 3 years under Woodson— including Miller Kopp et al — the team has shot by numbers from outside at the bottom of DI ball. It is not the players it’s the system, it’s that simple and you’re ignoring that. 

If we suddenly are shooting by numbers comparable to the top 25% or so of DI that will be a system change and we’ll all be thrilled. 

[AH1971]

12 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

You are just looking at this past season. All 3 years under a Woodson— including Miller Kopp et al — the team has shot by numbers from outside at the bottom of DI ball. It is not the players it’s the system, it’s that simple and you’re ignoring that. 

If we suddenly are shooting by numbers comparable to the top 25% or so of DI that will be a system change and we’ll all be thrilled. 

We’ve had two mainstays in the backcourt for the majority of those 3 years. Galloway and Johnson aren’t volume 3 point shooters because they aren’t 3 point shooters to begin with. Rice and Carlyle both attempted four 3pt/game as first year players, Galloway and XJ never attempted more than 3 in any of the years they played here. This isn’t hard. Woodson has shown he plays to his personnel. He bet on Xavier Johnson and got burnt. He’s going all in on young, dynamic guards who can not only create for themselves but for others. I’m willing to see that that through. It’s fine if you don’t want too, but that’s your prerogative however.

[Demo]

1 hour ago, JF87 said:

I did forget.  What was special about how Woodson used JHS?  

It wasn’t that what he did was special. It just demonstrated that he was willing and able to use a guy who was more dynamic off the bounce and would tailor some things for him. JHS wasn’t explosive enough to beat guys cold so they’d run a ton of zoom to get him the ball on the move. He did that a fair amount with Galloway last year, though not with Cupps, and it wasn’t as effective because Gallo isn’t as good. The other thing they did a lot was set their high ball screen as a flat screen so he’d come off it as a straight line drive instead of perpendicular. Didn’t do that for anyone last year. X & O genius? Nope, just a clear example that he’s ready to exploit matchups. If they’re able to bring in, prayers up, both Rice and Carlyle, they’re not gonna look for 50 post touches a game. They’re gonna get those guys the ball on the move and expect them to distort the defense and make reads and plays. Haven’t see Rice enough, but Carlyle can beat guys cold. The last guy on this campus on who could do that was Yogi. I promise that they’ll have end of game plays next year running 1 out with no screener for Carlyle and him just finding a shot. 

[Stuhoo]

36 minutes ago, Demo said:

It wasn’t that what he did was special. It just demonstrated that he was willing and able to use a guy who was more dynamic off the bounce and would tailor some things for him. JHS wasn’t explosive enough to beat guys cold so they’d run a ton of zoom to get him the ball on the move. He did that a fair amount with Galloway last year, though not with Cupps, and it wasn’t as effective because Gallo isn’t as good. The other thing they did a lot was set their high ball screen as a flat screen so he’d come off it as a straight line drive instead of perpendicular. Didn’t do that for anyone last year. X & O genius? Nope, just a clear example that he’s ready to exploit matchups. If they’re able to bring in, prayers up, both Rice and Carlyle, they’re not gonna look for 50 post touches a game. They’re gonna get those guys the ball on the move and expect them to distort the defense and make reads and plays. Haven’t see Rice enough, but Carlyle can beat guys cold. The last guy on this campus on who could do that was Yogi. I promise that they’ll have end of game plays next year running 1 out with no screener for Carlyle and him just finding a shot. 

From game vids Rice plays tall and while a few inches  shorter,  is a comparable skill set to JHS.

Woody is pretty good at in game schemes.

What he was terrible at last year? Roster construction. He was left with only one guard or wing on the whole roster that had even one outstanding offensive skill—Mgbako, and it took Mgbako until February to show it.

O-Fer guards is a no chance proposition. Rice, Carlyle, and a shooter rectifies that even if neither Cupps or Newton turn into a threat.

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan]

It is at IU.  And that’s the problem.  
Then look at Painter and Edey.  Uconn let him score his points and defended the perimeter = National Championship.  You need to be more dynamic than just post play.  

I don't think I have seen him argue that we need just post play. Both is needed.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

[RaceToTheTop]

in terms of Tony A’s analysis, Torvik does projections.  Based on current roster projections, Rice would be projected to be at about the same offensive efficiency as last year while Carlyle would be about 6% higher.

Of note, that’s overall efficiency and not particular to any specific statistic.  Rice had a nice two point shooting percentage and assist to to ratio;  would not be a shock if those dropped a little while his three point percentage climbs

[8bucks]

1 hour ago, HoosierHoopster said:

You are just looking at this past season. All 3 years under Woodson— including Miller Kopp et al — the team has shot by numbers from outside at the bottom of DI ball. It is not the players it’s the system, it’s that simple and you’re ignoring that. 

If we suddenly are shooting by numbers comparable to the top 25% or so of DI that will be a system change and we’ll all be thrilled. 

This is fair and I don’t expect us to launch 30 three pointers/game next year but I would be more shocked if Woody ran with the same offensive ideas this year.  I do expect some system changes and the emphasis on guards in the portal suggest this is likely. 

[Home Jersey]

3 minutes ago, Hardwood83 said:

Ehhhh, gotta differ with you there. He did have some big games, but had some real stinkers too. Home vs Oregon St he was 1-7fg (0-3 3p) 3-6 FT's, 1 reb with 3 TO's and 3PF's in 27mins.  @ Colorado was 4-17 shooting (2 of 11 3p!) with only 2reb in 33mins. 

Maybe just the ups and down's of a Freshman? Or he's just wildly inconsistent. I got my fill of that with XJ and so many other IU players over the last +20yrs. I think he takes a scholarship from someone that will actually help IU win- Conwell or Hickman for instance. Pass on Carlyle and let him 'develop' somewhere that doesn't need immediate help.  

I'd also prefer Conwell. Hickman I think we need to prioritize regardless. He's not the same prospect as Conwell or Rice IMO but he could still be a very good player. He's got 3 more years of eligibility so who knows. I'm not gonna be mad about the pick up if it actually happens 

[JF87]

1 hour ago, Demo said:

It wasn’t that what he did was special. It just demonstrated that he was willing and able to use a guy who was more dynamic off the bounce and would tailor some things for him. JHS wasn’t explosive enough to beat guys cold so they’d run a ton of zoom to get him the ball on the move. He did that a fair amount with Galloway last year, though not with Cupps, and it wasn’t as effective because Gallo isn’t as good. The other thing they did a lot was set their high ball screen as a flat screen so he’d come off it as a straight line drive instead of perpendicular. Didn’t do that for anyone last year. X & O genius? Nope, just a clear example that he’s ready to exploit matchups. If they’re able to bring in, prayers up, both Rice and Carlyle, they’re not gonna look for 50 post touches a game. They’re gonna get those guys the ball on the move and expect them to distort the defense and make reads and plays. Haven’t see Rice enough, but Carlyle can beat guys cold. The last guy on this campus on who could do that was Yogi. I promise that they’ll have end of game plays next year running 1 out with no screener for Carlyle and him just finding a shot. 

Thanks, I think this is a fair assessment. 

[Ghost of Rick Majerus]

I keep coming back here with the hope that one of these guys have made it official, but nothing yet. 

[IU - Kaulie]

23 hours ago, RaceToTheTop said:

He could but he would literally likely be fourth at the point guard spot next year and third the next

Maybe.  Some run away from competition.  Some seek it, embrace it, and see it as a challenge.  I think Cupps is wired a little different but we will see.

[Silat Player]

2 hours ago, Trish said:

Problem is, the Indiana coaching staff doesn’t believe in the 3PT shot.

I'm more concerned whether this staff believes in analytics. If they did, then they would probably believe in the three point shot...